Virgin Trains to Shrewsbury

[NickJ]

Back to the main point is there any definite information about the proposed Virgin Shrewsbury-London service - days of operation/timetable/starting date etc?

 

[merlodlliw]

Probably because;

• Wiring the tunnels under the canal at Chester will be difficult
• Unless other lines are wired, it benefits relatively few trains
• There's little to be gained by just wiring to Chester in isolation

Chester to Warrington will be wired first in my opinion,however if North Wales is wired with money on the table, Chester canal tunnels will be wired.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Back to the main point is there any definite information about the proposed Virgin Shrewsbury-London service - days of operation/timetable/starting date etc?

No word is that Shropshire MP's leaked story to the local rag as way of pressurising decision.

 

[Zoidberg]

... Chester canal tunnels will be wired.

That conjured up visions of canal barges with pantographs

 

[merlodlliw]

Back to the main point is there any definite information about the proposed Virgin Shrewsbury-London service - days of operation/timetable/starting date etc?

No, but May 2014 would be the soonest, its a bit like the Chester Pullman, it ran, but without pax,
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No word is that Shropshire MP's leaked story to the local rag as way of pressurising decision.

That is correct.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Chester to Warrington will be wired first in my opinion,however if North Wales is wired with money on the table, Chester canal tunnels will be wired.

It's a 150 mile project ( north wales coast as well) not a 30 mile one like Shrewysbury.

 

[Eagle]

Just wiring to Chester would free up a number of Voyagers from Virgin, though (assuming you had some Pendolinos or Babypendos to replace them with of course).

 

[tbtc]

It may only be 28 miles from Wolverhampton to Shrewsbury, but it'd only save one DMU per hour (unless you want to cut direct services from Birmingham to Aberystwyth, Wrexham etc which may not be popular...)

There are a lot of routes that you could electrify that'd save more than just one DMU an hour.

 

[Zoidberg]

It may only be 28 miles from Wolverhampton to Shrewsbury, but it'd only save one DMU per hour (unless you want to cut direct services from Birmingham to Aberystwyth, Wrexham etc which may not be popular...)

There are a lot of routes that you could electrify that'd save more than just one DMU an hour.

Given the current workings, that's right, the London Midland service to/from New St and Shrewsbury.

But if it were electrificated what service might we see? I say that from a point of naivety.

 

[dannypye9999]

if them shrewsbury/blackpool services get rejected, Network rail need to be taken to one side for a good long stern talking to and to be reminded of the current state of the railways. Just my opinion.

 

[tbtc]

if them shrewsbury/blackpool services get rejected, Network rail need to be taken to one side for a good long stern talking to and to be reminded of the current state of the railways. Just my opinion.

Why?

We have plenty of lines where demand exceeds supply, without worrying about vanity projects to keep local politicians happy.

If there are a couple of spare five coach Voyagers (with Virgin) then why are so many people standing on crowded XC services, and wouldn't XC be a better home for them than some "direct link to London" box ticking exercise?

 

[merlodlliw]

if them shrewsbury/blackpool services get rejected, Network rail need to be taken to one side for a good long stern talking to and to be reminded of the current state of the railways. Just my opinion.

I don't think Blackpool is in the running anymore,if its a dogs dinner like Shrewsbury, no point.
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It's a 150 mile project ( north wales coast as well) not a 30 mile one like Shrewysbury.

150 Miles from where Gareth.

 

[Gareth Marston]

It may only be 28 miles from Wolverhampton to Shrewsbury, but it'd only save one DMU per hour (unless you want to cut direct services from Birmingham to Aberystwyth, Wrexham etc which may not be popular...)

There are a lot of routes that you could electrify that'd save more than just one DMU an hour.

London Midland have 4 diagrams from New St to Shrewsbury usually consisting of 2 3 car and 2. 4 car Class 170's. ATW would need 3 diagrams consisting of 2 2 car Class 158's if just running this section so the potential yield is nearly a DMU carriage per mile of wire.

It's not a two car pacer route. Realistically the Cambrian would be happy with maybe 2 through trains to Birmingham on a weekday and 3 on Summer Saturday if you used the displaced DMU's to give Wrexham to Chester 2 tph and a through service to Manchester the loss of direct trains to Brum would be ameliorated.

I'm confident theres about 10 DMU's there.

 

[krus_aragon]

Holyhead - Chester and Chester - Warrinton would make roughly 100 miles alltogether. Did you add on Chester - Crewe and Chester - Stockport to get 150?

 

[Gareth Marston]

Holyhead - Chester and Chester - Warrinton would make roughly 100 miles alltogether. Did you add on Chester - Crewe and Chester - Stockport to get 150?

Not the CLC route just rough of top of head calculation.

 

[jones_bangor]

Chester to Warrington will be wired first in my opinion,however if North Wales is wired with money on the table, Chester canal tunnels will be wired.

With half an eye on the 2015 election, and a few marginal seats on the route, I'm expecting a firmer commitment on Crewe - North Wales shortly, the political will is certainly there. Spur to Wrexham would also make sense I guess?

Similarly, electrifying to Shrewsbury would make sense, particularly if VT are coming to town.

Sets things up for futuire electrification of the Marches as well.

 

[anthony263]

All well need is for the wires to be extended beyond Swansea to Milford Haven and we can get emu's running the Milford Haven - Manchester services, certainly the clas 350's would be good.

 

[Eagle]

All well need is for the wires to be extended beyond Swansea to Milford Haven and we can get emu's running the Milford Haven - Manchester services, certainly the clas 350's would be good.

Or we could just curtail those services at Swansea, and have something else run the Pembrokeshire services.

 

[anthony263]

True and it would give electric services from Swansea somewhere else to go beyond Cardiff other than Bristol, London etc.

Now all I await is the news that the Severn Tunnel Diversionary route is to be wired. It would certainly help to give the 2nd train per hour from Maesteg somewhere to go other than terminating at Cardiff Central when electrification is completed in 2018.

 

[Gareth Marston]

True and it would give electric services from Swansea somewhere else to go beyond Cardiff other than Bristol, London etc.

Now all I await is the news that the Severn Tunnel Diversionary route is to be wired. It would certainly help to give the 2nd train per hour from Maesteg somewhere to go other than terminating at Cardiff Central when electrification is completed in 2018.

Absoltely no chance in CP6 unless Welsh Government gives up on its road building ambitions. All of Chiltern and Birmingham Snow Hill commuter trains are top of the list as you still have shelf life on the displaced DMU's. West Country got nothing in CP5 nor benefits from HS2 so will be lobbying hard.
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With half an eye on the 2015 election, and a few marginal seats on the route, I'm expecting a firmer commitment on Crewe - North Wales shortly, the political will is certainly there. Spur to Wrexham would also make sense I guess?

Similarly, electrifying to Shrewsbury would make sense, particularly if VT are coming to town.

Sets things up for futuire electrification of the Marches as well.

I think you have think more UK wide rather than N Wales.

 

[merlodlliw]

With half an eye on the 2015 election, and a few marginal seats on the route, I'm expecting a firmer commitment on Crewe - North Wales shortly, the political will is certainly there. Spur to Wrexham would also make sense I guess?

Similarly, electrifying to Shrewsbury would make sense, particularly if VT are coming to town.

Sets things up for futuire electrification of the Marches as well.

Ieuan Wyn Pritchard Roberts, MP for Conwy Secretary/Minister for Wales was responsible( I think) for the A55 North Wales expressway, his counterpart David Jones MP for Clwyd West(same area almost) and current Secretary Of State for Wales is determined to see North Wales wired,we have no better chance from Westminster.

 

[rm88]

Electrify, Crewe/Warrington to Chester and LLandudno/Holyhead.

Or Wolverhampton - Shrewsbury-Crewe/Wrexham-Chester

 

[NickJ]

In todays Shropshire Star it states that Network Rail have offered Virgin Trains '2 return off peak paths' for the May 2014 timetable which they were considering!!

 

[mikestone1952]

Electrifying Crewe-Chester would be rather a waste if you don't go on to Holyhead, as a diversionary route via Manchester will shortly be available.
;
If Virgin had really been keen to serve Salop rather than just hog the xx.33 paths then they could probably have done it off Wolverhampton workings. Sending the set off the 06.16 Lancaster-Birmingham to Chester for the 11.35 to Euston would release a set to start the Wolverhampton attachment to the 05.50 Glasgow-Euston back at Salop (might require the 08.47 Salop-New St to start a few minutes earlier) and extend the 18.03 Wolves (2 x 221) to Salop.

 

[jones_bangor]

Ieuan Wyn Pritchard Roberts, MP for Conwy Secretary/Minister for Wales was responsible( I think) for the A55 North Wales expressway, his counterpart David Jones MP for Clwyd West(same area almost) and current Secretary Of State for Wales is determined to see North Wales wired,we have no better chance from Westminster.

Lord Roberts certainly delivered a lot for Wales.

Some of the excuses put forward by BR in the 80s for not electrifying North Wales Coast included "the line is to close to the sea"....

 

[merlodlliw]

Lord Roberts certainly delivered a lot for Wales.

Some of the excuses put forward by BR in the 80s for not electrifying North Wales Coast included "the line is to close to the sea"....

Network Rail would not get away with that today.

 

[PHILIPE]

It seems that following the announcement of further electrification a couple of years ago many people seem to think that it can take place almost anywhere on the system.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There are plenty of electrified lines alongside the sea.
Genoa-Nice-St Raphael for instance - about 180 miles of it!

 

[Proud Salopian]

BBC Shropshire reporting that it's 1 off-peak service each way a day... utterly pointless. Token service.

 

[tbtc]

BBC Shropshire reporting that it's 1 off-peak service each way a day... utterly pointless. Token service.

Token service, yes (by the sounds of it), but then the whole "campaign" seems to have been based on tokenism ("largest county town without a London service" / "largest county without a London service") rather than proving a genuine need (e.g. how many passengers currently make the journey despite the need to change trains).

Problem is that if the one off-peak/ day service "fails" then it'll be cancelled (again) and be even harder to justify a proper service in the future.