Virgin Trains to Shrewsbury

[Baxenden Bank]

The December 2013 timetable discussion notes the combination of London to Wolverhampton and Birmingham to Scotland services at Birmingham / Wolverhampton.

Such a move prevents the extension of current Wolverhampton terminating trains through to Shrewsbury (or heaven forbid, Aberystwyth).

Is this an accidental byproduct or a pre-emptive strike, preventing anyone suggesting such an extension - instead of the proposed routeing of Shrewsbury services via Stafford with a reversal there?

Given that Virgin have spare Pendolino's at the moment (76% to 85% of fleet required in daily service), couldn't these directly replace existing Birmingham - Scotland diagrams with the released Voyagers being deployed on a London - Wolverhampton - Shrewsbury service instead?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Isn't that exactly what Virgin were proposing for Dec 2013?
The 2 Voyagers freed up would run to Shrewsbury/Blackpool but are on hold till the WCML South gets more reliable.
It ought to mean these spare Voyagers are available to strengthen other services, but will VT actually deploy them when they might get clearance to go to Shrewsbury/Blackpool in a few months time?

 

[PHILIPE]

The issue with Virgin running to Shrewsbury again is not as much due to train availability but due to the effect of additional trains on Performance according by Network Rail and supported by ORR

 

[Gareth Marston]

The issue with Virgin running to Shrewsbury again is not as much due to train availability but due to the effect of additional trains on Performance according by Network Rail and supported by ORR

That's why they have to be extensions of EBW services

 

[Eagle]

That's why they have to be extensions of EBW services

Which is itself a bad idea because it requires Voyagers (presumably double) to replace Pendolinos. Which if the service was regular might result in some Chester services being short-formed, and/or some more Pendolinos lying unused.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

That's why they have to be extensions of EBW services

Hence my point. By removing the Wolverhampton terminating trains, the only option to serve Shrewsbury is the option recently rejected by ORR / Network Rail.

Extension of Wolverhampton services to Shrewsbury (and beyond) does not require additonal paths south of Wolverhampton. It is the logical solution. It is what used to happen. It could happen quickly. It could even replace existing ATW services as far as Shrewsbury, thus reducing use of the Wolvehampton - Brimingham International corridor which is heavily congested. Heaven forbid, trains could even runs as far as Chester.

In so doing you get your additional units for the Cambrian - Pendolino's used more efficiently, 158's released for use elsewhere.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Hence my point. By removing the Wolverhampton terminating trains, the only option to serve Shrewsbury is the option recently rejected by ORR / Network Rail.
Extension of Wolverhampton services to Shrewsbury (and beyond) does not require additonal paths south of Wolverhampton. It is the logical solution. It is what used to happen. It could happen quickly. It could even replace existing ATW services as far as Shrewsbury, thus reducing use of the Wolvehampton - Brimingham International corridor which is heavily congested. Heaven forbid, trains could even runs as far as Chester.
In so doing you get your additional units for the Cambrian - Pendolino's used more efficiently, 158's released for use elsewhere.

I remains to be seen how Virgin resource the new service.
If double Voyagers start and end their day at Wolverhampton, it would be simple to split them and send one on to Shrewsbury or beyond.
But it may not work like that.
They will still want the same quota of Pendolinos back at Oxley overnight, and the Voyagers at Central Rivers (with a few at Crewe).

 

[YorkshireBear]

It makes inter-working difficult the easiest way i would think is as a separate service. For now it isn't going to work, it is not essential that these places get services, they will within the next few years and that is a good step. We have much more pressing concerns than Shrewsbury getting a London Service.

 

[thenorthern]

Wouldn't platform lengths be an issue, I think only Telford Central and Shrewsbury would be long enough for a voyager.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I didn't think they were going to stop anywhere other than Shrewsbury and Telford Central

 

[NickJ]

The plan includes a stop at Wellington which has platforms long enough for a 5 coach voyager.

 

[Geezertronic]

Hence my point. By removing the Wolverhampton terminating trains, the only option to serve Shrewsbury is the option recently rejected by ORR / Network Rail.

Hasn't that already happened by extending the EBWs to form the Birmingham-Scotland services?

 

[30907]

It would be possible to run a modern equivalent of the BR-era daily service, using a double Voyager instead of a Pendolino on whichever train is currently the last off depot in the morning and the first in at night, and locking the London end unit between Wolves and Shrewsbury (avoids attaching/detaching at Wolves) - but as soon as the diagrams get disrupted you've got problems!

 

[Rich McLean]

Hasn't that already happened by extending the EBWs to form the Birmingham-Scotland services?

Double Voyager to Wolves, then split. One goes to Shrewsbury, the other to Scotland

 

[Eagle]

But then that totally defeats the object of extending the EBWs to Scotland in the first place (namely that they can be run with more Pendolinos, and increase capacity without need more units to be acquired).

 

[calc7]

1443 to Edinburgh and...Shrewsbury

 

[Eagle]

1443 to Edinburgh and...Shrewsbury

That's no worse than some of TPE's services to Glasgow and Barrow.

 

[Rich McLean]

But then that totally defeats the object of extending the EBWs to Scotland in the first place (namely that they can be run with more Pendolinos, and increase capacity without need more units to be acquired).

Were talking about 1 train a day. Up in the morning and down in the evening. Units could run ECS to/from Crewe to Shrewsbury, with an early turn starting at Crewe in order to form up at Wolves. Then go forward to Euston. These can then stay on Euston - Chesters/Holyheads, then during the evening (or shortly before/after) they then form the return working to Wolves (from Euston), with one portion going to Shrewsbury (stable at crewe) and the other will head north to Preston or beyond (depending on time of day)

Ok granted, what would of been a pendo becomes a double voyager, but its two diagrams per day

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Analysis of 'open train times' shows a mixture of Pendolino's and Voyagers on the London - Birmingham - Scotland services. I know these are for timing purposes and Pendolino can substitute for Voyagers on the day.

No increase or decrease in Voyager diagrams (number of units depends on amount of doubling up).

Saving of 1 Pendolino until the evening peak. Analysis of likely diagrams shows 10 Pendolino not in service in the AM peak, 11 until 1409 ECS ex Longsight, 8 in the PM peak. Assuming sensible turnrounds (30 minutes) at both ends throughout the day. Not exactly efficient 10/56 = 82% available for service.

 

[Tracky]

I always fancied the idea of an additional Voyager running Shrewsbury-Crewe to couple to an existing (Holyhead- ) Chester-Crewe-Milton Keyns-Euston service. Would be a direct 2 hour journey Salop-London. Paths are there without forcing an additional diesel path down the WCML...

 

[Philip Elliott]

Analysis of 'open train times' shows a mixture of Pendolino's and Voyagers on the London - Birmingham - Scotland services. I know these are for timing purposes and Pendolino can substitute for Voyagers on the day.

No increase or decrease in Voyager diagrams (number of units depends on amount of doubling up).

Saving of 1 Pendolino until the evening peak. Analysis of likely diagrams shows 10 Pendolino not in service in the AM peak, 11 until 1409 ECS ex Longsight, 8 in the PM peak. Assuming sensible turnrounds (30 minutes) at both ends throughout the day. Not exactly efficient 10/56 = 82% available for service.

Incorrect. Just shy of 90% availability required for 390s. Voyagers are 90% FSX and 95% FO.

 

[The Planner]

30 minute turnarounds aren't sensible anymore, 20 works. HS2 want daft ones like 10 when they try and obliterate Euston, that will be fun...

 

[Class 92]

I always fancied the idea of an additional Voyager running Shrewsbury-Crewe to couple to an existing (Holyhead- ) Chester-Crewe-Milton Keyns-Euston service. Would be a direct 2 hour journey Salop-London. Paths are there without forcing an additional diesel path down the WCML...

It takes about 45 mins Shrewsbury to Crewe and then about 1 hour 50 mins to Euston from there so it will be longer then 2 hours.

Note: Journey lengths off the top of my head

 

[The Planner]

Non stop Shrewsbury to Crewe is about 30 mins. Holyhead Euston trains from Crewe are 1 hour 40 with a MK stop. 2 hours 15 would be the best you would get considering the reversal at Crewe.

 

[thenorthern]

I personally think Telford is more in need than a direct link to London than Shrewsbury, its much bigger and has more business.

 

[The Planner]

They go hand in hand though, you wouldn't just do Telford (you couldn't anyway) so both would happen.

 

[jimm]

I personally think Telford is more in need than a direct link to London than Shrewsbury, its much bigger and has more business.

Oh really? 2011-12 usage figures, Shrewsbury 1.7 million. Telford 1 million. Throw in Telford's two other stations and Wellington adds 560,000 and Oakengates 52,000.

Shrewsbury is the county town and far more of a centre for the rest of Shropshire and places on into Mid-Wales than Telford will ever be. If you've taken a train all the way from London to Telford, you'd be pretty daft not to carry on up the line for 20 minutes to reach a town of 100,000 people.

 

[NickJ]

The Shropshire Star yesterday mentioned that the ORR are putting pressure on Network Rail to improve reliability on the West Coast ML so as to allow the new Shrewsbury to London to start 'as soon as possible' - maybe in the May 2014 timetable, as its only 2 trains each way a day!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The Shropshire Star yesterday mentioned that the ORR are putting pressure on Network Rail to improve reliability on the West Coast ML so as to allow the new Shrewsbury to London to start 'as soon as possible' - maybe in the May 2014 timetable, as its only 2 trains each way a day!

NR are getting on with it: http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...ability-on-the-West-Coast-Main-Line-1eae.aspx
Programme of upgrades lasts to March 2014.
Every "wires down" incident from now on is bad news.

 

[Tracky]

My comment about Crewe was based on an idea to avoid an additional Voyager path into London and give Shrewsbury just one 5 car train for each journey.

For example, a Voyager could leave Shrewsbury at 0720, and couple to 1R24 at Crewe to leave at 0754 and arrives at Euston 0941.



A great idea would be for Arriva and Chiltern to work together on an extension of Mainline. Arriva staff working 67's and stock on existing Shrewsbury-International paths handing them on to Chilterns staff for Leamington and Marylebone... Free up 158s for an hourly Aberystwyth too...