Virgin has franchise extension request rejected

[Failed Unit]

Let's get one thing straight Virgin did not invest in any new trains. Angel trains did in the same way the Rosco invested in the east coast fleet to make them the most reliable in the uk. Why would east coast need new trains anyway the mk3 and mk4 are still more than suited to the east coast and many find them more comfortable as well.

 

[Heinz57]

Personaly I hope Virgin do get it. I reckon they've done alright considering. I mean the West Coast has been being relayed hasn't it?

They'll still have a good stab at the EC too. Didn't they try it once before? Someone needs to come along and sort it out, its been in a bit of a mess since GNER lost it I reckon.

 

[Failed Unit]

Don't get me wrong I would mind them winning either franchise again. But I just don't think there record in the past 15 years is good enough for automatic renewal.

If they get east coast I hope they learn from the mistakes they have made from catering should not be repeated. Make food optional in first and give passengers in standard a chance to buy it. Don't replace trains for the sake of it the mk4s are fine but yes the hst won't last forever. What would people on west coast prefer a seat on a mk3 or to stand on a voyager?

 

[Flamingo]

I can't even imagine a Virgin Great Western...

How about a First Great Virgin....






I'll get my coat....

 

[Bungleboo]

http://rail-news.com/2010/10/08/virgin-has-franchise-extension-request-rejected/

I for one will be very annoyed if Virgin lose the West Coast. Every single journey I have had with them has been seemless and even bagged myself some crazy priced advance fares (£10.50 each way from Tunbridge Wells to Liverpool .. even leaving in the rush hour when the fare to London alone is more!!). I'm a massive fan of Sir RB so slightly biaised perhaps?!! :razz:

 

[The Planner]

DB West Coast, Virgin East Coast, see what odds you can get and lump on.

 

[Zoe]

In the case of Cross Country Virgin elected not to overbid and as a result lost the franchise. West Coast of course is more lucrative so will be interesting to see if they overbid this time to ensure they retain the franchise.

DB West Coast, Virgin East Coast, see what odds you can get and lump on.

So a DB monoply for London to Birmingham then and no incentive for lower fares on the Chiltern route.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

If the station signs change it will be the first time since BR days at many Virgin stations. The likes of Wigan North Western, Preston, Lancaster and Carlisle still have ex BR Intercity station signs with the maroon stripe top and bottom.

All stations north of WBQ, and Macclesfield, Stoke, Coventry and Wolves are the only ones in BR colours, all others are VT-style, which is curiously enough grey and purple (see the likes of Crewe, Bhm Intl and Runcorn)

 

[The Planner]

So a DB monoply for London to Birmingham then and no incentive for lower fares on the Chiltern route.

Will be a complete monopoly I think, I reckon the south part of the West Coast will go to a single franchise so no more LM.
West Mids, Worcester and Shrewsbury locals becomes part of the Chiltern area franchise. Chiltern will be cheaper as it will always be the slower route.

 

[Squaddie]

Make food optional in first...

You mean it's not optional now? Do they hold you down and force feed you?

 

[Pumbaa]

Will be a complete monopoly I think, I reckon the south part of the West Coast will go to a single franchise so no more LM.
West Mids, Worcester and Shrewsbury locals becomes part of the Chiltern area franchise. Chiltern will be cheaper as it will always be the slower route.

That's a very sensible idea.

My bets are down, they agree with yours! GoVia I presume ballsed up their chance to take WC Franchise with the total cock-up that is LM?

 

[Dennis]

You mean it's not optional now? Do they hold you down and force feed you?

No, you get an 'uneaten food penalty notice' in the post and they fine you double the cost of the most expensive item on the menu.

 

[Sadsmileyface]

Oh crumbs. As much as they aren't in my good books of late, I'd rather leave them running the WCML than any of the other vultures. Especially FirstGroup who have a habit of "Transforming" travel.

I think it would be fantastic.

Come on staff travel!

 

[The Planner]

My bets are down, they agree with yours! GoVia I presume ballsed up their chance to take WC Franchise with the total cock-up that is LM?

Not necessarily, Im still a believer that the highest bid with the biggest carrot on the stick for the Dft wins it. If GoVia come in with a mental bid then who knows.

 

[MCR247]

No, you get an 'uneaten food penalty notice' in the post and they fine you double the cost of the most expensive item on the menu.

Its all free in Virgin First Class

 

[Failed Unit]

You mean it's not optional now? Do they hold you down and force feed you?

They don't force you to eat it of course. But they force you to pay for it as it is added onto all first class ticket prices if you want it or not!

 

[Geezertronic]

Let's get one thing straight Virgin did not invest in any new trains. Angel trains did in the same way the Rosco invested in the east coast fleet to make them the most reliable in the uk.

But the Pendolinos came around at the request of VirginTrains did they not?

 

[shinkansen1966]

During their near 15 year tenure of the WCML franchise, exactly what has been the financial risk for VirginTrains ?

From what I understand, the multi billion cost overrun for upgrading the West Coast line was paid by us, the taxpayer.

Do you think Virgin should have least born some of this financial responsibility ? After all, their trains have benefited from the new improved track.

 

[Deerfold]

They don't force you to eat it of course. But they force you to pay for it as it is added onto all first class ticket prices if you want it or not!

I travelled Virgin first class on Friday. I got two tiny (150ml) pepsis and a banana. (I couldn't eat either of the sandwich offerings they made - and they didn't try and force me).

My ticket cost £10 less than the lowest available 2nd class fare at the time I booked.

So although I didn't get a lot it did cost -£10.

 

[Failed Unit]

I travelled Virgin first class on Friday. I got two tiny (150ml) pepsis and a banana. (I couldn't eat either of the sandwich offerings they made - and they didn't try and force me).

My ticket cost £10 less than the lowest available 2nd class fare at the time I booked.

So although I didn't get a lot it did cost -£10.

You were lucky. Sometimes you can get first cheaper than standard. The fact remains that food is built into the ticket price so you are paying for it if you need it or not. Why do you think airlines don't give free food any more on short haul? Because they can't match the price of the lazyjets of this world who can offer cheaper fares because the don't charge for optional extras like food.

 

[87015]

But the Pendolinos came around at the request of VirginTrains did they not?

Yeah as eight cars...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

http://railwayeye.blogspot.com/2010/10/brummies-revolting-after-journey-time.html

Ignore one or two choice words in the blog, but it makes a good point of a mistake by VT, and the West Mids-Euston service

 

[ainsworth74]

Yeah as eight cars...

Since which they have asked to have them extended to 11 cars, and in some cases offered to fund the extra vehicles themselves.

 

[Failed Unit]

Since which they have asked to have them extended to 11 cars, and in some cases offered to fund the extra vehicles themselves.

So they were going to buy them themselves without Angel trains. Interesting. What if Angel trains wouldn't let them insert them into thier pendo's

 

[87015]

Like they were going to 'bring 135mph to the Trent' but in reality were demanding NR do all the work and pay for all the consultations and studies.

Still if you are good at spin its easy to sway people that you can do nothing wrong and are the darling of the industry...

 

[ainsworth74]

So they were going to buy them themselves without Angel trains. Interesting. What if Angel trains wouldn't let them insert them into thier pendo's

I'm not fully up on the specifics, but I definitely read somewhere that Virgin had put a proposal to the DfT after the DfT had decided not to lengthen all the Pendos. The gist of this proposal was that Virgin would lengthen the remaining sets at no extra cost to the DfT.

 

[Geezertronic]

http://railwayeye.blogspot.com/2010/10/brummies-revolting-after-journey-time.html

Ignore one or two choice words in the blog, but it makes a good point of a mistake by VT, and the West Mids-Euston service

I had a chuckle when reading that report especially the bit about comparing jourrney times between Euston to Warrington (served by the hourly EUS-GLC services and is EUS-WBQ non stop) and Euston to Wolverhampton (served by 1-2 EDB services an hour with at least 4 stops in-between including New Street). The info about changing at Stafford is also a bit misleading since the 1h 32 time only allows for a few minutes connection time at Stafford.

 

[Failed Unit]

I'm not fully up on the specifics, but I definitely read somewhere that Virgin had put a proposal to the DfT after the DfT had decided not to lengthen all the Pendos. The gist of this proposal was that Virgin would lengthen the remaining sets at no extra cost to the DfT.

In the same way as Northern offered to rid us of the pacer at no cost to the taxpayer. The lease will go up and it is the risk after the franchise ends which is why both offers were rejected. Northern may have replaced the pacers and took the revenue risk, but until we have 30 year franchises the taxpayer will always take the risk. The TOC gets it wrong and the taxpayer picks up the tab hence why claims like this should be taken with the pinch of salt they deserve. Look at the London underground PFI - who really took the risk?

 

[telstarbox]

In the 1990s the Virgin "brand" was quite a draw (record shops etc). Now, there's a lot less prestige to it, and it's not like Stagecoach need Virgin, so I'm not sure they'd do another joint bid

I'd say the Virgin brand is still strong - Virgin Atlantic is well-regarded, there's Virgin Media which has appeared fairly recently, Virgin Galactic in the news trying to do space tourism etc.

Virgin is unique among TOCs in that its brand is more glamorous and associated with more than just transport - which could be to its advantage in getting new passengers onto the trains. This is different to (for example) First and Arriva, who people only associate with buses and trains, run in similar turquoise/cream liveries in Arriva's case (XC excluded of course).

 

[tbtc]

Virgin is unique among TOCs in that its brand is more glamorous and associated with more than just transport - which could be to its advantage in getting new passengers onto the trains. This is different to (for example) First and Arriva, who people only associate with buses and trains, run in similar turquoise/cream liveries in Arriva's case (XC excluded of course).

Interesting point.

There have been other (non-bus/rail) companies involved in running trains, like SERCO, but they obviously keep a different brand (they don't want their trains resembling the trucks they use for trasporting prisoners)...