UK Storms

[jopsuk]

A little disappointed that whilst GA clearly can't run through to London from Cambridge that they're not setting up a local shuttle Cambridge to Stansted or Bishops Stortford- the line to Stansted is definitely open from the north as XC are running through.

 

[Goatboy]

It's ok, next time we'll not tell you and hope you figure it out for yourself?

I think his point is about how poor it is that the ticket acceptance hasn't been arranged.

 

[Carlisle]

If its the picture I am thinking of I was told it was Sole Street Bank. The stretch between Rochester and Sole street stations. I used to commute from Sole Street and it was er buried. It was an aerial shot and looked like a model railway layout with matchsticks strewn over the tracks so that you could hardly see the rails !.

I recall travelling to Beckenham Junction was best achieved by travelling from Gravesend via Lewisham to Clock House.

I also had to use the North Kent lines for about a week when we had that serious snow within twelve months. A pair of 33s plus snow ploughs had got stranded West of Sole Street roughly at Longfield. For me the disruption of that snow we had was worse. I was snowed in for one week. I then made it to the local pub with a neighbour. The following day I drove to a supermarket down in Strood. I made it down the hill with the underside of the car sliding on the packed snow realising I would have to find an alternative route back or walk. The supermarket had very little on the shelves. Then the next week I made it to Gravesend (or Strood ?) I resorted to travel from there in an EPB dragged by a class 56. Well er I started in the EPB but made it into the 56 cab so stayed on to London and then back to Lewisham.

So sorry I digress but the disruption in the great WIND storm of 1987 was worse than this time but the death toll would also have been a LOT worse if it had struck at 06:00 (am) rather than 03:00 (am). This time it was down to much better weather prediction and timing. If 1987 had happened during the day we would have had trainloads of passengers stranded for days in a lot of locations. I very much agree with the railways this time for not running trains until they knew what the disruption was. It was bad enough this time though 1987 was obviously worse - we were very lucky it happened overnight then.

I wonder if this storm will soon be accompanied by a heavy dose of snow in a few months time.

Cheers that sounds like it was the picture I was thinking of , yes in those days the lack of digital technology meant most folk that wanted to catch trains the next morning walked or drove to their local station justto be told by staff 'no trains today mate '

 

[Peter Sarf]

In days of steam locos, sparks from these engines used to burn the edges of the formation. Saplings were destroyed before they became big trees and so there were NO LEAVES deposited on the track to cause loss of traction.

Yes in the days of steam there was a problem with lineside fires and I think the railways used to keep vegetation cut back to prevent this. The fires themselves were not relied upon to keep the vegetaion cut back. However there was not a lot of steam on most of the London metro routes even as far back as the 1950s ?. I think it was freight and long distance (e.g. Kent Coast).

If, as was normal on the nineteen fifties railway, you still had a ganger to every mile of track, armed with a mobile phone. you would not even have needed the helicopters!

I thought I was at the forefront of technology but I did not get a mobile phone until the 1990s - not the 1950s. Staff costs in this modern world are too high to allow keeping lots of staff. Its those rising costs of manpower that led to line closures in the 1960s. The lines nowadays are designed to require less maintenance and as much as possible is done by track machines.


I think rather a lot of people are fond of the vegetaion that lines our rail lines and the other wildlife that populates it. Couple that with the cost of keeping that vegetation under control and I can understand that it is easier to wait and see what happens every twenty five years.

I would also suspect that you would have to cut back more than ten metres to ensure larger trees do not reach the tracks. Bear in mind with the nearer trees gone the trees further back will get more light and so grow taller. I seem to recall that the railways do carry out coppicing (or pollarding) in risky locations. Coppicing (EDIT not Pollarding) means cutting the trees back to the base of the trunk every ten years or so. Was done in whole forests to produce wood that is the right size for fencing etc. But also meant there were never large trees around and Network Rail do it in certain locations.

Postive points - How many people died on Monday morning in the storm and how many of them died on the railways ?. So was the railways approach proportionate to the risk ?.

Another solution is to cut back on the huge numbers of humans cluttering the planet and let alternative types of nature survive !. Go back 2000 years and I am sure things ran a lot smoother. Never read about rail disruption in my history lessons - anyone else ?.

 

[infobleep]

Normal service has now resumed. So thus morning around 7.30 it still said on the online Guildford departure board that due to poor weather south west trains services were being delayed. As it easy they were not. The only services with delays were the First Great Western. Of course there was nothing to say why they were late. Later on they did put something up for individual trains but nice general note and in talking about delays of 20+ minutes. Now at Woking and there are delays on services to London Waterloo of up to 8 minutes with both reason given on the departure board or some of the individual trains.

So like I said, normal service has resumed. The he your did a good job yesterday but today it's reverted back to normal with regards to information.

Sent from my HUAWEI U8815 using Tapatalk

 

[infobleep]

There are some typos in my above post but Taptalk won't let me edit it, despite seleting edit.

Interestingly the stopping service to Waterloo is now departing from platform 5. I guess they decided platform 3 would course more problems.

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[SF-02]

I don't think one southeastern train has arrived at London on time over the past 2 hours.

Not the weather though but broken down trains & signalling problems at London bridge.

 

[GNER 91128]

Trains between Stevenage and London Kings Cross are being delayed by up to 30 minutes. Any idea of what is still causing this delay?

 

[ainsworth74]

Poor rail conditions

 

[rdwarr]

Trains between Stevenage and London Kings Cross are being delayed by up to 30 minutes. Any idea of what is still causing this delay?

I was lucky. I got the 0759 from Stevenage which arrived at Kings Cross a total of one minute late. Other trains seemed delayed for ages though, particularly local services from the Cambridge branch.

 

[ushawk]

Poor rail conditions

Wrong - overrunning engineering work.

 

[jon0844]

Go back 2000 years and I am sure things ran a lot smoother. Never read about rail disruption in my history lessons - anyone else ?.

Are you sure? Where did the phrase 'Jesus, another train delay!' come from then?

 

[MichaelJP59]

Just joined this forum as have become a regular East Coast commuter.

On the delayed 7.29 from Retford to Leeds (actual dep. 8.30). I agree about lack of information having been on many delayed trains the last few weeks. Often the train manager gives a reason for the initial delay, but then seems almost fed up himself as delay piles on delay. For example this morning no excuses or apologies have been offered, just a description i.e. "This is the delayed x.xx from London Kings Cross now expected into Leeds x.xx". When a train is delayed there doesn't seem any effort to minimise any further delay. To the passenger it almost seems the attitude is "well, you're late now, it doesn't really matter how late". This may not be the case but without information that's how it comes across to the passenger.

Also even the internet didn't help much this morning. I checked the website and knew the train was delayed 30 minutes and I have a 10 min walk to the station. By the time I had got to the station the 30 minute delay had expanded to 60 minutes. Should have checked realtimetrains!

 

[ainsworth74]

Wrong - overrunning engineering work.

Meh blame the BBC that's where I got the info

 

[tsr]

There was also a loss of signalling at Peterborough.

Oops!

 

[lonogrol]

I know, i am simply saying it is a bit unfair to directly compare the two in the article.

Most of the debris on the east end of the Central Line yesterday was removed by station staff (assisted by a Train Operator). Whilst I wouldn't expect CSAs or Supervisors to lug huge tree trunks off the track it was mainly garden furniture and large branches that caused the issue.
I think this also explains the differences in the approach; L.U.L. already had trained staff there on site (or very near) who could deal with most of the issues. I don't think T.O.C. station staff are even allowed on the track?

 

[bicbasher]

? And what about if stuck at unstaffed stations like Maze Hill? Passenger info machine/telephone the way to go I presume?

All suburban stations have help points.

 

[A-driver]

Wrong - overrunning engineering work.

Was both. The down lines were blocked at southgate for overhead wire repairs so all traffic was put on the down Hertford. The Hertford lines were delayed by poor rail conditions (as usual).

 

[bezzer]

It's ok, next time we'll not tell you and hope you figure it out for yourself?

Buses leaving Stansted Airport are not much use for the 99% who travel from Stortford, Harlow Town etc.

Buses would be more useful and at 5:30 in Horne morning whilst they are proving the route from Cheshunt's up to the airport and Cambridge, probably one bus would have been more helpful advice.

 

[O L Leigh]

Deleted

 

[IKBrunel]

Pollarding means cutting the trees back to the base of the trunk every ten years or so.

Coppicing is cutting trees down to the base of the trunk (used on willow for example as a biomass crop)
Pollarding is cutting all the branches from the top of the main trunk, common on urban streets & in France. can be done on most hardwoods,

 

[sheff1]

Simple fact is there is not enough work for a gang so it is a waste of money.

I am sure you, too, have full details of the amount of work required, the costs and benefits.

Can you provide those details please.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I am sure you, too, have full details of the amount of work required, the costs and benefits.

Can you provide those details please.

That is just information from maintenance teams at NR. You cant afford a gang every two miles to drink tea all day. Modern design and maintenance requires less maintenance and ia more mechanical.

And I never asked for facts and figures I was just using what I know about railway maintenance.

 

[DJL]

While most of facebook is bashing the TOCs for yesterday's lack of services I just wanted to thank all the people who went out onto the railways in dangerous conditions over the past few days in order to remove all the debris from the lines and repair damage so that some kind of service could be run today!

 

[Chrisgr31]

Most of the debris on the east end of the Central Line yesterday was removed by station staff (assisted by a Train Operator). Whilst I wouldn't expect CSAs or Supervisors to lug huge tree trunks off the track it was mainly garden furniture and large branches that caused the issue.
I think this also explains the differences in the approach; L.U.L. already had trained staff there on site (or very near) who could deal with most of the issues. I don't think T.O.C. station staff are even allowed on the track?

I am not convinced you can compare the TFL network with the TOC network. If you were going to make the comparision it would have to be netween the London Overground Neowrk and the TOC network. Even then it is not necessarially fair due to the lengths of network involved.

I am not sure what the average distance between stations is on the TFL network but I suspect they are closer than they are on the rail network and therefore station staff can see the obstructions. In addition there are possibly more staff at TFL stations.

However of course TFL want to take over certain suburban rail routes so an opportunity to kick the existing TOCs is not to be missed!

 

[jon0844]

Just look at a map of the south east of England - or indeed the whole area where the bad weather hit.

It's not comparable, especially when you've got all the branch lines and so on.

Okay, so a lot of the rail network is third rail (or even not electrified at all) but all of the places with OHLE were never going to be as easy to clear as LU lines - especially if more staff are allowed to get onto the tracks to clear off debris.

Frankly, it's a totally unfair comparison IMHO - and would be even if the whole tube network was overground.

 

[dk1]

Well at least electric trains are back up & running to Norwich this afternoon. Special to Liverpool St using 3x170s was run at 08.50 today full & standing from Norwich & planned to call Diss, Stow, Ipswich & Manningtree. Further problems where found South of Ipswich & the whole train was terminated there with passengers told to head to the forecourt only to find every available bus already used. We even had a top & tail 47 on an IC set that failed a few minutes into the journey & returned to Norwich. The route via Ely & Cambridge to London has struggled to cope with all those diverted.

It really has been one of the most trying couple of days in my railway carreer & have literally seen the network in this part of the country go into melt down. there where just too many problems for those in charge to cope with. Lets hope it settles back into something nearer normality from now on.

 

[infobleep]

Delays on SWT tonight due to congestion caused by an earlier failed train.

When it comes to congestion delays I don't know why train companies don't take the putting out of announcements more seriously.

I found out but asking on Twitter but it would he far more usfuk to everyone else if it was just announced on National rail enquiries, like they announced the bad weather yesterday.

They did a good job yesterday.

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[ChiefPlanner]

Most of the debris on the east end of the Central Line yesterday was removed by station staff (assisted by a Train Operator). Whilst I wouldn't expect CSAs or Supervisors to lug huge tree trunks off the track it was mainly garden furniture and large branches that caused the issue.
I think this also explains the differences in the approach; L.U.L. already had trained staff there on site (or very near) who could deal with most of the issues. I don't think T.O.C. station staff are even allowed on the track?

Virtually no TOC station staff are now allowed on the track (TBF this was a trend form the latter days of BR with the "retail /ops split" - this is where LUL really score with qualified track safe staff on hand to do the things like removing debris and clipping points etc.

 

[A-driver]

Virtually no TOC station staff are now allowed on the track (TBF this was a trend form the latter days of BR with the "retail /ops split" - this is where LUL really score with qualified track safe staff on hand to do the things like removing debris and clipping points etc.

Actually it varies toc to toc. On southern all dispatch staff are allowed on the line if needed. On FCC very few are.