UK Storms

[Mike395]

Will be interesting to see if they get everything open as planned tomorrow - especially on the southern end of the GEML and MML. Bothers me slightly that First Capital Connect and East Midlands Trains are being quite non-committal about the line being open at start of service tomorrow, sounds like it might be a close one!

 

[ushawk]

Currently on a strengthened Seaford - Brighton train which has 8 coaches, first time for a long time, if ever before, an 8 coach EMU has operated on this line.

 

[mrmatt]

Will be interesting to see if they get everything open as planned tomorrow - especially on the southern end of the GEML and MML. Bothers me slightly that First Capital Connect and East Midlands Trains are being quite non-committal about the line being open at start of service tomorrow, sounds like it might be a close one!

I'm sure it is a complex topic but how plausible are repairs to small lengths of OHLE where a tree has brought it down? Is it something that can be patched up or do large stretches need to be replaced?

 

[Unixman]

Superbly trenchant comment to a poor article in the Grauniad today:

"This is a bizarre article. "Yes, ok, 100 trees on the line... fine, but you're still rubbish. And the weather wasn't that bad, really, was it? And what about leaves on the line, eh? Ha! Got you there!"
Is it too much to ask for the Guardian to employ a transport correspondent who actually understands some of the complexities of trying to operate a national railway when this sort of severe weather is encountered? Who actually understands some of the problems of even "simple" stuff like leaves on the line*? Who has the slightest inkling of the work involved in carving up trees which are resting on railways in which there are third rail and overhead line electrification? Who can comprehend the above point about ports and airports being a hundred ****loads easier to open than 30,000 km of track?
I mean, for God's sake, your office is in literally the same building as the NR HQ. Is it too much to ask to get the lift down a couple of floors and talk to someone?
*(hint: Network Rail would get rid of all the lineside trees if it could; people who live nearby tend to complain about the felling and the noise, however. As it is, NR pays millions of pounds a year to run trains to treat the track to keep it clear. Dismissing it as something that shouldn't cause a problem is facile and moronic)"


http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/28/uk-storm-memories-1987-network-rail-response

 

[Lankyline]

Warning. The following video contains reasonable members of the public discussing railway delays caused by an act of nature.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24705616

That must of annoyed the Beeb then can't have reasonable members of the public commenting on TV

 

[Ploughman]

What would the coverage have been like if it was North of Watford?

Who remembers the Weather mans statement a few years back?
" The storms over now its moved North" or words to that effect.

 

[bicbasher]

Communication was a lot better this time round, although I had to use the NRE departure board page on my phone to find out if services were running back down to West Croydon/Crystal Palace on the ELL. TfL's website was still saying that there were severe delays on the core section.

I tried the radio stations BBC London and LBC. BBC London correctly said services were running again, while LBC claimed at one point services were operating between New Cross Gate and Crystal Palace or as I heard at 4.30 only between H&I and New Cross/Gate.

At least the train back to Crystal Palace was roomy which is rare for a normal Monday.

 

[dk1]

Ruud Hackett impressed me on BBC Look East. Simply said it as it was & had an answer to every question. Shame we are going to lose him at GA.

 

[CheekyBandit]

You should make the 1631 Crewe-Manchester (ATW - on time).
Then 1728 TP Stockport-Cleethorpes.

Managed to catch both. Thanx. But this route home from Gatwick Airport (or rather Horley as it was within walking distance of my
hotel) is not one I am planning on doing ever again.

 

[bb21]

Don't go challenging the idiotic comments on the Guardian website. They need to have someone to blame for every little thing in life, otherwise their heads will explode trying to comprehend that there is no one to blame. :roll:

 

[Bald Rick]

I'm sure it is a complex topic but how plausible are repairs to small lengths of OHLE where a tree has brought it down? Is it something that can be patched up or do large stretches need to be replaced?

Patched up. Fixing it is relatively straightforward if the wire has simply parted, or if a couple of registrations arms need replacing. What takes the time is to get all the people and kit to the right place, then to check wire height and alignment (stagger) after the work is complete.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Will be interesting to see if they get everything open as planned tomorrow - especially on the southern end of the GEML and MML. Bothers me slightly that First Capital Connect and East Midlands Trains are being quite non-committal about the line being open at start of service tomorrow, sounds like it might be a close one!

MML due to hand back 0500. Fast lines first if it runs into trouble. UK Power Networks have to finish their work first though.

 

[michael769]

What would the coverage have been like if it was North of Watford?

People are expressing surprise at reports that thousands of northerners are without power. I thought only about 2 caves up there had any power to lose.

Actually we need to verify this report. Do they even have 1,000 people up there under the ice?

 

[455driver]

Obviously Bob isnt happy that Network Rail didnt allow trains to keep running in order to let a train crash into a tree as then he would have had a field day.

Why would he care if the trains did hit the trees, the driver would probably be in 'the other union' so Bobby boy wouldnt really care.

I see all those who were saying last night that the railways were being stupid for saying there would be blanket speed restrictions and cancellations due to the weather, and they should run a full service this morning have gone a bit quiet.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I'm sure it is a complex topic but how plausible are repairs to small lengths of OHLE where a tree has brought it down? Is it something that can be patched up or do large stretches need to be replaced?

MML problem is i think National Power Grid cables fell onto the line, that is a very different matter, got to wait for them to repair their bit before starting NR's bit. If it was trees it may have been easier.

 

[Crossover]

Listening to the travel news on Radio 2 this morning, it was clear it was going to be a day from hell. I got the impression everyone had just thrown in the towel and I think it would have been quicker to announce what WAS running :P

Have Northern or TPE been affected? The sun is now out in Leeds

Last time I looked, it appeared not

 

[infobleep]

Someone asked this earlier but I'll ask it again, does anyone know what happened to the trains in 1987 when there was no warning? Did they hit trees? Of course there were less trains running back then.

I wonder if things would have been different way back when each stretch of line was the responsibility of a group of people or person. Would the trees get spotted sooner and dealt with. There may have been more people working back then to deal with it. I'm not saying we should go back to those days. It's not as if this happens every year. Just wondering how it might have been dealt with.

Are there any books on server weather events affecting the railways in the past?

 

[Tomnick]

Why would he care if the trains did hit the trees, the driver would probably be in 'the other union' so Bobby boy wouldnt really care.

I dunno, he seems remarkably keen to do many of his members in the signalling grade out of a job in his quest to protect the public from their own stupidity on level crossings.

 

[PMN1]

Are there any figures comparing third rail and overhead line electrification in their ability to cope with the various things the weather throws at them?

 

[transportphoto]

My sailing across the Solent was unaffected*, nice and pleasant; out on deck most of the way.

*All bar a 30 minute knock on delay from earlier in the day.

TP

 

[PG]

Just received this email from National Express - trains obviously not so important now that they only have the one franchise

We're adding additional coaches Despite the bad weather we're still running services. We're also adding extra services to meet the demand. Take the coach and avoid the rail disruption.

 

[Mojo]

Today's comment from the Evening Standard: http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/e...-storm--london-dusts-itself-down-8908550.html

Whatever the inconveniences of travel for commuters today, especially by rail, the city’s transport system — at least the bits run by TfL — has coped relatively well

Today’s storm has caused much of the predicted chaos. There has been localised disruption to several Tube lines and the DLR — almost all caused by fallen trees. The cancellation of all early-morning rail services — including London Overground — has caused some commuters severe problems. Flights have been disrupted. And it was a miracle that no one was hurt by a crane collapsing onto the Cabinet Office in Whitehall. Yet the effects in London are not as severe as they might have been.

This is in no small part due to Transport for London’s preparation — and here the contrast with the rail operators is striking. While by 9am all but three Tube lines were fully open, as well as all buses and the DLR, commuter rail operators were still struggling. First Capital Connect’s recovery has been particularly slow. TfL has learned from its crisis in February 2009, when it failed to anticipate the severity of the worst blizzard to hit London in years. Then, the bus system shut down, for the first time ever. TfL’s preparation for today’s major weather event was much more impressive. Extra staff have been deployed, the damage has been speedily fixed, and the flow of information to passengers generally good.

Whatever the inconveniences of travel for commuters today, especially by rail, the city’s transport system — at least the bits run by TfL — has coped relatively well. Part of its flexibility and improved communications is down to the huge lessons learned preparing for the Olympics last year. Overall, London’s transport system is now running with a confidence and level of efficiency not seen in a long time — even if this morning it took chainsaw crews to get the Tube moving.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Today's comment from the Evening Standard: http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/e...-storm--london-dusts-itself-down-8908550.html

It has to be said quite a lot of the LU is underground so trees don't cause problems.

 

[Mojo]

It has to be said quite a lot of the LU is underground so trees don't cause problems.

A not insignificant proportion, including most of the depots, is above ground, and much of the railway is tree-lined [whether in someone's back garden or on railway property itself] just like the Network Rail lines are.

 

[YorkshireBear]

A not insignificant proportion, including most of the depots, is above ground, and much of the railway is tree-lined [whether in someone's back garden or on railway property itself] just like the Network Rail lines are.

I know, i am simply saying it is a bit unfair to directly compare the two in the article.

 

[infobleep]

Interestingly the National Rail Enquiries App is listing loads of trains that are cancelled from Guildford but the National Rail Enquiries Web Site isn't showing them.

I thought they both used the same feed of data. I'm sure they do but it seems they don't modify the data before it used by both. Would make sense to make the changes so it filters through to both the App and the Web Site. I'm sure there are technical reasons why the systems in place cannot currently do this.

 

[1e10]

Interestingly the National Rail Enquiries App is listing loads of trains that are cancelled from Guildford but the National Rail Enquiries Web Site isn't showing them.

I thought they both used the same feed of data. I'm sure they do but it seems they don't modify the data before it used by both. Would make sense to make the changes so it filters through to both the App and the Web Site. I'm sure there are technical reasons why the systems in place cannot currently do this.

I was trying to use the NRE app this morning on my iPhone but couldn't get anything to load.

 

[Mojo]

I know, i am simply saying it is a bit unfair to directly compare the two in the article.

Whilst the two networks do have their differences, there are a lot of similarities particularly in suburban London which was badly affected today, I have to admit that it is fair for people to ask questions whether there are any lessons that can be learned in the differences that the two agencies handled their approach.

 

[Sleepy]

It has to be said quite a lot of the LU is underground so trees don't cause problems.

Might be some truth in brother Crow's comments on tv earlier regarding NR track staffing numbers being drastically cut recently - shame the way he puts thing across are not always fully understood by the media/ General public.

 

[mrmatt]

Whilst the two networks do have their differences, there are a lot of similarities particularly in suburban London which was badly affected today, I have to admit that it is fair for people to ask questions whether there are any lessons that can be learned in the differences that the two agencies handled their approach.

True but how much of the disruption to national rail services was caused by incidents a way outside of London (and the trains having longer distances to travel and therefore more likely to be caught behind something somewhere)? Also OHLE must be a much bigger pain in the rear end.


That said it does sound like TfL did a pretty good job on this one.

 

[30907]

Someone asked this earlier but I'll ask it again, does anyone know what happened to the trains in 1987 when there was no warning? Did they hit trees? Of course there were less trains running back then.

I was staying with my parents in Bromley on the night of the 87 storm. IIRC the Southern attempted to run trains from the start but it was virtually impossible over a wide area. (I don't think the thought of starting late in severe weather had occurred to management then, and I wonder if this storm was one that contributed to the change of policy?).

36 hours later (sorry, 3 days later, in view of various later posts), on a nice sunny autumn day, I decided to take a trip to East Grinstead and back (newly electrified). Services were still all over the place on the Central.
We terminated at Hurst Green and crossed onto the Up, and I recall vividly the sight and sound of our CEP or VEP making its way back to Oxted at walking pace over a carpet of bright green leaves (NOT your usual autumn leaf mulch). EP stock was very robust, but even so I reckon there must have been a lot of overtime at Selhurst for a few days after - irrespective of damage from trees, what with wheel flats and burnt out motors.
And that may be another factor in today's more cautious approach.