UK Storms

[Goatboy]

Is there any precedence here? We get windy weather fairly often, the current forecasts do not suggest a repeat of 1987 and more like a repeat of storms seen as recently as 2008.

Have we ever basically given up running trains because of something that might happen at any point in the past? Or is this a first?

The backlash when everyone wakes up tommorrow morning and finds a few wheely bins in the road is surely going to be enormous.

 

[westv]

Sunday evening was what they mentioned

Who's "they"?

 

[TOCDriver]

Who's "they"?

Met office

 

[deltic1989]

My gaffer called about and hour ago to tell me that I should try to get in if possible but under no circumstances should I take any risks to do so.
I am monitoring the situation closely as I have a drop off in Scunthorpe and a pick up in Hull, I'm planning my whole day assuming that I will have to go the long way round between the two.
I consider that the advice my gaffer gave me was pretty good. He said:
'If it gets too windy find somewhere sheltered to park, if that's not possible then stop, take the unit off the trailer move away from the trailer and wait it out.'

 

[westv]

Met office

"Heavy rain will spread across many southern and central parts overnight. Damaging winds will also develop across southern areas, giving the risk of disruption, particularly for the Monday morning rush hour. Clear spells and scattered showers further north."

From the Met Office website updated at 15:17.
No mention of Sunday evening there.

 

[Darandio]

Michael Fish tried that line as well

And he was absolutely spot on!

 

[Bald Rick]

Is there any precedence here? We get windy weather fairly often, the current forecasts do not suggest a repeat of 1987 and more like a repeat of storms seen as recently as 2008.

Have we ever basically given up running trains because of something that might happen at any point in the past? Or is this a first?

The backlash when everyone wakes up tommorrow morning and finds a few wheely bins in the road is surely going to be enormous.

Lots of precedent. Almost all of which has been ignoring Met Office advice, trying to run trains and then effectively shutting the network down in an unplanned manner due to failed trains or infrastructure. Usually caused by snow.

For windy conditions in the southeast the most recent example was in 2002 (maybe 2003?) on a Sunday when there was a controlled (if not planned) shutdown of most of the network in the middle of the day.

 

[TOCDriver]

"Heavy rain will spread across many southern and central parts overnight. Damaging winds will also develop across southern areas, giving the risk of disruption, particularly for the Monday morning rush hour. Clear spells and scattered showers further north."

From the Met Office website updated at 15:17.
No mention of Sunday evening there.

LOL Do you have to be so pedantic?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24674537

You can quote hundreds of quotes from them. Does it really matter to you or do you find life really that boring?

 

[A-driver]

Is there any precedence here? We get windy weather fairly often, the current forecasts do not suggest a repeat of 1987 and more like a repeat of storms seen as recently as 2008.

Have we ever basically given up running trains because of something that might happen at any point in the past? Or is this a first?

The backlash when everyone wakes up tommorrow morning and finds a few wheely bins in the road is surely going to be enormous.

Yea, probably best to risk it really. Run the early trains in pitch black at 100mph and cross fingers that no trees have come down. If they have then the driver certainly won't see it in time people will likely be killed.

But hey, it's worth it rather than taking precautions.

 

[Goatboy]

Yea, probably best to risk it really. Run the early trains in pitch black at 100mph and cross fingers that no trees have come down. If they have then the driver certainly won't see it in time people will likely be killed.

But hey, it's worth it rather than taking precautions.

I asked if there was any precedence. This is not an unprecedented event - what has happened previously? There must be history we can look at to see what the reaction was over several occasions in the last 10 years and what the consequences were. It would appear storms of similar predicted strength occured in both 2007 and 2008. What happened on these occasions?

It seems an unusual response for some windy weather. Strong winds are not a rare event in the UK but thankfully casualties caused by trains hitting trains is a rare event in the UK which would suggest that train crashes are not generally what follows windy weather.

If a shutdown of the rail network each time the weather forecast is for strong wind is the usual response, then fair enough. Not heard of it before though, hence my question.

 

[A-driver]

I asked if there was any precedence. This is not an unprecedented event - what has happened previously? There must be history we can look at to see what the reaction was over several occasions in the last 10 years and what the consequences were. It would appear storms of similar predicted strength occured in both 2007 and 2008. What happened on these occasions?

It seems an unusual response for some windy weather. Strong winds are not a rare event in the UK but thankfully casualties caused by trains hitting trains is a rare event in the UK which would suggest that train crashes are not generally what follows windy weather.

If a shutdown of the rail network each time the weather forecast is for strong wind is the usual response, then fair enough. Not heard of it before though, hence my question.

The met office are warning for more than a strong wind tonight. It is an amber warning, the 2nd highest and they are warning it may be upgraded to the highest warning as well.

This is not just a bit of wind like we often see in the UK. This is warned to possibly be worse than normal.

Being that the worse of it will be overnight there is no way of knowing if anything has fallen on the line until test trains have been out inspecting and this can't be done until daylight. Plus with potential for flooding and dangerous winds there is risk to staff trying to get into work at 4am meaning tocs are considering the possibilities of staff shortages at the start of service to.

 

[daikilo]

Yea, probably best to risk it really. Run the early trains in pitch black at 100mph and cross fingers that no trees have come down. If they have then the driver certainly won't see it in time people will likely be killed.

But hey, it's worth it rather than taking precautions.

Very well expressed. Taking risks can kill. Don't.

The game tonight is about risk assessment. Those playing it hopefully understand that life is worth infinitely more than death (or at least xxx thousand pounds).

 

[D1009]

Well the sleeper from Penzance is supposed to be only running as far as Plymouth at least that is what I read on the FGW coffee shop forum

Well according to Real Time trains it's left right time on its normal schedule through to London, so will be one to watch.

 

[jon0844]

Ultimately, it's one day of hassle and best to be safe. It should be easy to get in to work late or stay home for one day, especially as employers have a duty of care for staff so would be silly to say something like 'you better find a way in or you're fired'.

It's somewhat harder when it's snow and goes on for days and is even more unpredictable, so those people moaning should just accept it. Don't fight Mother Nature.

If it all turns out to be a lot less seriously than predicted, consider it a bonus that your roof didn't come off or a tree flattened your car.

Or, has happened last time we had high winds some 10+ years ago, a roof tile came off our flat and left a rather nasty dent in a car roof. Lucky it was a car and not a head.

 

[Stats]

East Coast have released a new timetable and will now not be running any services south of Peterborough before 7.30am.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/60162.aspx

 

[Essexman]

Well according to Real Time trains it's left right time on its normal schedule through to London, so will be one to watch.

FGW website also shows sleeper running through to London.

 

[robertclark125]

So does the National Rail website, though it shows it as having been delayed by an earlier train fault.

 

[Essexman]

So does the National Rail website, though it shows it as having been delayed by an earlier train fault.

Extra stops as previous Penzance to Plymouth train cancelled.

 

[Mainliner]

Cheds and Dad are booked from Newcastle to London at 1128 on Monday, which might not turn out to be the best timing ever!

Any EastCoast specialists who could provide info nearer the time or Monday morning will be thanked...

And take care all those out and about if this is really difficult.

I'll be on the 10.25, so I'll probably be able to give you an hour's warning of any trouble!

 

[robertclark125]

Apparently a tree went onto the Chiltern line, between Gerrards Cross and High Wycombe this evening.

 

[infobleep]

Lots of precedent. Almost all of which has been ignoring Met Office advice, trying to run trains and then effectively shutting the network down in an unplanned manner due to failed trains or infrastructure. Usually caused by snow.

For windy conditions in the southeast the most recent example was in 2002 (maybe 2003?) on a Sunday when there was a controlled (if not planned) shutdown of most of the network in the middle of the day.

I think that may have been the day when First Great Western paid for me and others to take a taxi from Gatwick Airport to Guildford.

I'm sure there was also a time where one train company didn't offer any services but another did. However my memory is sketchy on what happened and when, although I clearly remember getting a taxi at one point in the past at FWG expense. I thought it was quite exciting at the time.

It's now raining here in Guildford. I wonder if any rivers will overflow. I was surprised there wasn't flooding the other night when he had a massive downpour.

 

[ushawk]

FGW have suspended Gatwick - Guildford services until at least 9AM.

FCC Great Northern services are currently being delayed by 20 minutes.

 

[dvboy]

Virgin have started making some timetable changes, turning around some Wolves/Birmingham to Euston trains at Coventry or Rugby, adding some additional calls and extended journey times for others.

 

[fusionblue]

FCC saying no services before 9am. SE saying "some trains will not run until after 9am", implying some will.

As usual there is a fuzzy overlap between the "jointly operated routes". Does this mean that those services (like Ashford/Sevenoaks to Bedford) will just not go further than Blackfriars? Or the entire service will not run?

 

[infobleep]

How many test trains to they have? Years ago of course there were fog signalmen, who also worked during snow. So I guess there may have been more chance of someone finding a problem before a train did. For financial and probably other reasons such men are no longer employed. However I'm sure network rail is doing all it can in a more modern way. If it didn't, I'm sure questions would be asked by the politicians.

I have a wonderful booklet on what to do during server weather, published by Southern in 1947, with an updated leaflet for 1948 inserted. It has the times fog signalmen are required to report for duty during server weather.

 

[A-driver]

How many test trains to they have? Years ago of course there were fog signalmen, who also worked during snow. So I guess there may have been more chance of someone finding a problem before a train did. For financial and probably other reasons such men are no longer employed. However I'm sure network rail is doing all it can in a more modern way. If it didn't, I'm sure questions would be asked by the politicians.

I have a wonderful booklet on what to do during server weather, published by Southern in 1947, with an updated leaflet for 1948 inserted. It has the times fog signalmen are required to report for duty during server weather.

The test trains will just be empty passenger trains taken at caution to check if the line is clear. Not a network rail yellow test train.

 

[1e10]

Met Office is displaying amber warning for Bristol from 3AM onwards tonight because of wind. It's reporting gusts of up to 20MPH for the current time but as of the moment it's pretty much dead outside. Last night the house was trembling.

 

[ungreat]

Remember being on a ballast train early one sunday morning about 25 years ago and we ended up walking across Harringworth viaduct in high winds to relieve the other crew as the staff bus driver was told the wrong end of the viaduct.Fun.Not!

 

[robertclark125]

People often forget as well, that staff have got to get from their homes to their place of work, whether that be the depot, signalbox, station. So, if the drivers, or staff at the station can't get in, due to the weather, that only compounds the problem.

 

[infobleep]

Currently the quickest journey in the morning is 38 minutes due to the leaf fall timetable. That is the 8.20 via Woking, which isn't affected by the leaf fall timetable. Tomorrow it is 31 minutes via Woking! That is because fast trains from Woking at stopping at Surbiton, so I can change at Woking to catch one. As it is the slow trains via Cobham are timetabled to be 1 minute quicker than usual to Surbiton. So even that is better.

Oh well looks like one of the services that was going to make up my fast 31 minute journey to Surbiton has been cancelled. There goes my quick journey times. I think I'll forgive them under the circumstances.

Still the direct stopping trains are being timetabled to run 1 minute quicker than on the autumn leaffall timetable! Not quite sure that will be the case in reality if the storm really hits.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
First Great Western have the following train amendments for the Reading to Gatwick line. Does this mean that they are expecting the worst of the winds to be east of Guildford:
"The 0554 Reading to Gatwick Service will terminate at Guildford
The 0606 Reading to Gatwick Service will terminate at Guildford
The 0834 Reading to Gatwick Service is cancelled
The 0728 Redhill to Reading service will start at Guildford
The 0758 Gatwick to Reading Service is cancelled"
(http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/TravelInfo/Severe-Weather-Warning-27-28-October)

If people are keen to get into work tomorrow morning as early as possible, there is a route from Woking via the Heathrow bus. Leaving at 5.20, it would only take 3 hours 23 minutes to reach Waterloo. It only costs £13.40 comapred to £10.40 for a day single. Not a bad price given the length of journey and journey time.