UK General Election 2024

[Kaliwax]

I've just read the manifesto of the Liberal Democrats, the only one of the parties, that actually mentions disabled people and helping them in a little bit of detail, so I think on that basis, Lib Dems is the way to go if you are disabled of course.

 

[Mikw]

I've just read the manifesto of the Liberal Democrats, the only one of the parties, that actually mentions disabled people and helping them in a little bit of detail, so I think on that basis, Lib Dems is the way to go if you are disabled of course.

Yep, the other parties seem to think kicking the sick and disabled is a vote winner amongst the voters they are chasing anyway

 

[Busaholic]

I've just read the manifesto of the Liberal Democrats, the only one of the parties, that actually mentions disabled people and helping them in a little bit of detail, so I think on that basis, Lib Dems is the way to go if you are disabled of course.

Got to say I couldn't find anything specific, having waded through it. In any case I remember too well their part in the Coalition government's dismantling of the Disabled Living Allowance system in 2013. Despite that, I will be voting LibDem should my postal vote get delivered in time, as the only way to get rid of the Tory here.

 

[AM9]

I've just read the manifesto of the Liberal Democrats, the only one of the parties, that actually mentions disabled people and helping them in a little bit of detail, so I think on that basis, Lib Dems is the way to go if you are disabled of course.

You on't have to be disabled to feel that something should be done for those that are. I always find it disappointing that so many vote entirely selfishly.

 

[YorkRailFan]

I've just read the manifesto of the Liberal Democrats, the only one of the parties, that actually mentions disabled people and helping them in a little bit of detail, so I think on that basis, Lib Dems is the way to go if you are disabled of course.

The only thing mentioned in Labour's manifesto was to report on the disability pay gap, completely agree that the Lib Dems focused far more on disabled people and carers, likely due to Davey's experience as a Carer.

 

[Kaliwax]

Got to say I couldn't find anything specific, having waded through it. In any case I remember too well their part in the Coalition government's dismantling of the Disabled Living Allowance system in 2013. Despite that, I will be voting LibDem should my postal vote get delivered in time, as the only way to get rid of the Tory here.

• Replacing the sanctions regime with an incentive-based scheme to help people into work.
• Make the benefits system work better for disabled people by:
  • Giving disabled people and organisations representing them a stronger voice in the design of benefits policies and processes.
  • Bringing Work Capability Assessments in-house.
  • Reforming Personal Independence Payment assessments to make the process more transparent and stop unnecessary reassessments, and end the use of informal assessments.
  • Establish an Independent Living Taskforce to help people live independently in their own homes, with more choice and control over their lives.
  • Ending inappropriate and costly inpatient placements for people with learning disabilities and autism.
  • We will give people free personal care. Personal care is support to do things like getting washed and dressed
  • Set a target of ending deep poverty within a decade, and establish an independent commission to recommend further annual increases in Universal Credit to ensure that support covers life’s essentials, such as food and bills.

This is what I found from the Lib Dems, I must say, I find all of these extremely fair.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I had a Reform leaflet delivered yesterday, saying this was The Immigration Election.
This in Clwyd East which has no immigration issues, in fact it has emigration issues with too many young people leaving for better jobs in England.
The other proposal is for zero NHS waiting lists.
Good luck on Reform influencing the one-party state in Cardiff Bay over NHS policy, particularly allied to a Labour government in Westminster.

 

[birchesgreen]

I had a Reform leaflet delivered yesterday, saying this was The Immigration Election.
This in Clwyd East which has no immigration issues, in fact it has emigration issues with too many young people leaving for better jobs in England.
The other proposal is for zero NHS waiting lists.
Good luck on Reform influencing the one-party state in Cardiff Bay over NHS policy, particularly allied to a Labour government in Westminster.

Zero NHS waiting lists by abolishing the NHS? I hear Mr Farage likes the US healthcare system.

 

[Kaliwax]

I personally think Reform are worse than the tories and that's saying something

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Zero NHS waiting lists by abolishing the NHS? I hear Mr Farage likes the US healthcare system.

While acknowledging that Reform are awful, often spread misinformation, and have a totally impractical, uncosted, manifesto, they are not proposing to abolish the NHS.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Am I being monumentally thick, or does “zero NHS waiting lists” taken literally mean either (a) no NHS or (b) an infinite number of consultants in every speciality on call just in case there’s a surge in demand?

It’s like Tesco saying they will permanently have 100% availability of every product, regardless of customer demand

 

[takno]

Am I being monumentally thick, or does “zero NHS waiting lists” taken literally mean either (a) no NHS or (b) an infinite number of consultants in every speciality on call just in case there’s a surge in demand?

It’s like Tesco saying they will permanently have 100% availability of every product, regardless of customer demand

Probably means they won't keep lists. I mean really, why can't these people wait in a good traditional British queues? Obviously if somebody doesn't have relatives free to push their stretcher forward every hour or so then they might get queue-jumped, but that's just the price you pay.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Zero NHS waiting lists by abolishing the NHS? I hear Mr Farage likes the US healthcare system.

I thought he preferred the French system.

 

[AlterEgo]

I've just read the manifesto of the Liberal Democrats, the only one of the parties, that actually mentions disabled people and helping them in a little bit of detail, so I think on that basis, Lib Dems is the way to go if you are disabled of course.

Why should only disabled people vote for disability rights? Those policies should appeal to anyone who wants a fairer and more compassionate society.

 

[gg1]

Am I being monumentally thick, or does “zero NHS waiting lists” taken literally mean either (a) no NHS or (b) an infinite number of consultants in every speciality on call just in case there’s a surge in demand?

It’s like Tesco saying they will permanently have 100% availability of every product, regardless of customer demand

The probably just plucked it out the air because it sounds good without giving any thought to what it actually means in practice.

If they'd have said said 'no patients waiting longer than x weeks' (18 was the standard pre-Covid) that would be a sensible policy, but a promise of 'zero NHS waiting lists' is utterly moronic.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Am I being monumentally thick, or does “zero NHS waiting lists” taken literally mean either (a) no NHS or (b) an infinite number of consultants in every speciality on call just in case there’s a surge in demand?

I think it means they haven't thought it through properly. Their NHS policy contains a series of proposals aimed at cutting waiting lists, so their intention is clearly that people should be able to get treatment promptly, but as you say, getting waiting lists to zero is basically impossible.

 

[HSTEd]

The probably just plucked it out the air because it sounds good without giving any thought to what it actually means in practice.

If they'd have said said 'no patients waiting longer than x weeks' (18 was the standard pre-Covid) that would be a sensible policy, but a promise of 'zero NHS waiting lists' is utterly moronic.

Well, as the IFS notes, all the parties are putting out manifestos that are totally detached from reality.

In an environment where you are against people willing to make impossible pledges, there is a strong driver to make them yourself.

 

[Kaliwax]

Why should only disabled people vote for disability rights? Those policies should appeal to anyone who wants a fairer and more compassionate society.

What I meant was that Lib Dems was the best party for disabled people. I didn't mean only disabled people should vote for those policies, just pointing out that their policies would be the best ones to help disabled people.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jun 2024 ==

I think it means they haven't thought it through properly. Their NHS policy contains a series of proposals aimed at cutting waiting lists, so their intention is clearly that people should be able to get treatment promptly, but as you say, getting waiting lists to zero is basically impossible.

What about their guarantees of getting vouchers that if you don't get seen in a certain time as well

 

[bspahh]

I think it means they haven't thought it through properly. Their NHS policy contains a series of proposals aimed at cutting waiting lists, so their intention is clearly that people should be able to get treatment promptly, but as you say, getting waiting lists to zero is basically impossible.

Page 9 of the The Reform Party "Contract" says:

Despite record extra funding in recent years, NHS healthcare outcomes have declined. While still free at the point of delivery, our healthcare needs major reforms to improve results and enjoy zero waiting lists.

CRITICAL REFORMS NEEDED IN THE FIRST 100 DAYS:

End Doctor and Nurse Shortages

All frontline NHS and social care staff to pay zero basic rate tax for 3 years. This will help retain existing staff and attract many who have left to return. End training caps for all UK medical students. Write off student fees pro rata per year over 10 years of NHS service for all doctors, nurses and medical staff.

Use Independent Healthcare Capacity
We will harness independent and not-for-profit health provision in the UK and overseas.

Tax Relief of 20% on all Private Healthcare and Insurance

This will improve care for all by relieving pressure on the NHS. Those who rely on the NHS will enjoy faster, better care. Independent healthcare capacity will grow rapidly, providing competition and reducing costs.

Thereafter:

Put Patients in Charge With a New NHS Voucher Scheme

NHS Patients will receive a voucher for private treatment if they can’t see a GP within 3 days. For a consultant it would be 3 weeks. For an operation, 9 weeks. Services will always be free at the point of use.

Improve Efficiency. Cut Waste and Unnecessary Managers

Operating theatres must be open on weekends. Rotas must be planned further in advance. Nail down better prices using economies of scale. Review all NHS Private Finance Contracts for significant savings potential. Charge those who fail to attend medical appointments without notice. Abolish the NHS Race and Health Observatory.

Save A&E

Cut waiting times with a campaign of ‘Pharmacy First, GP Second, A&E Last’. We will offer tax incentives for new pharmacies and those who employ more staff to assist in relieving pressure on A&E.

Excess Deaths and Vaccine Harms Public Inquiry

Excess deaths are nearly as high as they were during the Covid pandemic. Young people are over-represented.

They can remove waiting lists by giving you a voucher for private GP treatment after 3 days. If that voucher doesn't pay for the cost of treatment, then you would need to top up with your own money.

They also have to fund the lost tax from doctors and nurses, training caps, write off of student fees and insurance tax rebates. If they want to pay more money to staff, you don't need to add taxation rules, increase the salaries.

 

[brad465]

Tories now withdrawn support from the two candidates being investigated in the betting scandal:

BBC election leaders debate live: Sunak and Starmer clash over borders, tax and gender

There were heated exchanges between the Conservative and Labour leaders in one of the last set-piece events of the election campaign.

www.bbc.co.uk

Conservative Party: 'We can no longer support Craig Williams or Laura Saunders'​

Soon after a briefing to the BBC's Henry Zeffman (see our last post), a Conservative Party spokesman has now confirmed two candidates' suspension:

"As a result of ongoing internal enquiries, we have concluded that we can no longer support Craig Williams or Laura Saunders as Parliamentary Candidates at the forthcoming General Election.

"We have checked with the Gambling Commission that this decision does not compromise the investigation that they are conducting, which is rightly independent and ongoing."

 

[gg1]

Well, as the IFS notes, all the parties are putting out manifestos that are totally detached from reality.

In an environment where you are against people willing to make impossible pledges, there is a strong driver to make them yourself.

This goes a stage further than that.

The IFS criticisms of the Labour and Tory manifestos relate to the uncosted/poorly costed nature of them, essentially if either of these manifestos were to be enacted as is there would be a large discrepancy between government income and expenditure.

Zero NHS waiting lists on the other hand is impossible to achieve regardless of how much money you throw at the problem.

 

[Kaliwax]

I'm pretty sure my area will be labour-won again. She's been MP here for the last 27 years and she is a senior figure in the shadow cabinet.

 

[jfollows]

Tories now withdrawn support from the two candidates being investigated in the betting scandal:

BBC election leaders debate live: Sunak and Starmer clash over borders, tax and gender

There were heated exchanges between the Conservative and Labour leaders in one of the last set-piece events of the election campaign.

www.bbc.co.uk

Starmer said something like “why didn’t that happen a week ago?” which was pretty much my thought. If nothing else it’s too late for lots of postal voters. Craig Williams was first reported on 12 June.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

They can remove waiting lists by giving you a voucher for private GP treatment after 3 days. If that voucher doesn't pay for the cost of treatment, then you would need to top up with your own money.

Their manifesto does say that treatment would always be free at the point of use - which implies that the voucher would cover the entire cost of treatment.

Where it fails is that Reform are just assuming there will be sufficient private healthcare medics. There won't be. If the Government gives a private voucher to everyone who can't be seen by their GP within 3 days, that means they'll be giving a private GP voucher to - well, probably 90%+ of people who book an NHS GP appointment. The much smaller private sector would be totally overwhelmed, so you'd end up still unable to see anyone for ages. Totally impractical. The kind of policy that sounds a good idea when you dream it up over a pint in the pub but doesn't stand up to any serious scrutiny (Like most of Reform's manifesto, really).

 

[deltic]

Starmer said something like “why didn’t that happen a week ago?” which was pretty much my thought. If nothing else it’s too late for lots of postal voters. Craig Williams was first reported on 12 June.

Another classic case of ministers being rolled out to justify some dodgy behaviour and then being thrown under the bus by No 10 flip-flopping. Given ministers rebelled against Johnson for the same reason and brought him down I'm sure there are some very angry senior Tories who will ensure Rishi never has a role in the party again.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Their manifesto does say that treatment would always be free at the point of use - which implies that the voucher would cover the entire cost of treatment.

Where it fails is that Reform are just assuming there will be sufficient private healthcare medics. There won't be. If the Government gives a private voucher to everyone who can't be seen by their GP within 3 days, that means they'll be giving a private GP voucher to - well, probably 90%+ of people who book an NHS GP appointment. The much smaller private sector would be totally overwhelmed, so you'd end up still unable to see anyone for ages. Totally impractical. The kind of policy that sounds a good idea when you dream it up over a pint in the pub but doesn't stand up to any serious scrutiny (Like most of Reform's manifesto, really).

It's also palpable nonsense that pushing excess demand towards the private sector will reduce costs via increased competition. It just doesn't work like that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jun 2024 ==

Another classic case of ministers being rolled out to justify some dodgy behaviour and then being thrown under the bus by No 10 flip-flopping. Given ministers rebelled against Johnson for the same reason and brought him down I'm sure there are some very angry senior Tories who will ensure Rishi never has a role in the party again.

The more I think about Sunak, the more I come to the conclusion that:

(i) he's probably technically quite capable
(ii) he's been over promoted rapidly through a combination of luck, circumstances and excess ambition
(iii) he just doesn't get how politics works
(iv) he's out of his depth
(v) he's fundamentally weak

 

[birchesgreen]

Another classic case of ministers being rolled out to justify some dodgy behaviour and then being thrown under the bus by No 10 flip-flopping. Given ministers rebelled against Johnson for the same reason and brought him down I'm sure there are some very angry senior Tories who will ensure Rishi never has a role in the party again.

He'll be like Nicola Murray in the thick of it, when she tried to be a "Party Grandee" she got laughed out of the building.

 

[jfollows]

The more I think about Sunak, the more I come to the conclusion that:

(i) he's probably technically quite capable
(ii) he's been over promoted rapidly through a combination of luck, circumstances and excess ambition
(iii) he just doesn't get how politics works
(iv) he's out of his depth
(v) he's fundamentally weak

I agree with you, but note that his competition was Liz Truss; everything he said about her when they were competing was true but she was always going to win with the electorate of old white rich men, and I think that out of the two he was always the better choice. But all the things you say are true - there was nobody any better!

 

[DarloRich]

And I am still voting for him, despite what he said

Could you explain why you are voting for Reform? Assuming you live in Clacton do you expect Farage to be an effective locl MP rather than a motormouth one?

"Rishi Sunak - Standing up for the people of Richmond and Northallerton"

I saw some of these signs at the weekend but not as many as before. A farmer I played cricket with was a big time old school Tory ( huntin, fishin, shootin, land owner type) who without fail put up Tory placards in his fields and was involved in the local party. This time: None. Nothing. ( at least he hasn't gone Reform)

I know the NFU have been extremely critical if Tory agriculture/ agribusiness policy. Minette Batters seems almost to say Labour (!) would be better for farmers! Things are bad when the yackers aren't with you!

Neither Labour or Conservative sent election material around here

Most of the spend in on line/ social media these days. I am surprised how many leaflets I have recieved tbh. However only the Labour candidate has been out pounding the streets of my area. No sign of the incumbent Tory.

and don't really trust Kier Starmer

I have seen this seveal times. may I ask why?

There is a danger that all the talk of a Supermajority for Labouir will lead to apathy about voting among the younger cohort

That's what the Tories want - its all they have left.

I'll think I'll be voting for the SDP, I have an SDP candidate in my area, and I like the sound of their policies. I had the reform and tory leaflets come through the post today.

NotE: the SDP of today are NOT the SDP of old. Would Shirley Williams have made an electoral pact with Farage?

Tories now withdrawn support from the two candidates being investigated in the betting scandal

A day late and a dollar short as always. They had Gillian Keegan out defending them this morning!

 

[Kaliwax]

Could you explain why you are voting for Reform? Assuming you live in Clacton do you expect Farage to be an effective locl MP rather than a motormouth one?

I saw some of these signs at the weekend but not as many as before. A farmer I played cricket with was a big time old school Tory ( huntin, fishin, shootin, land owner type) who without fail put up Tory placards in his fields and was involved in the local party. This time: None. Nothing. ( at least he hasn't gone Reform)

I know the NFU have been extremely critical if Tory agriculture/ agribusiness policy. Minette Batters seems almost to say Labour (!) would be better for farmers! Things are bad when the yackers aren't with you!

Most of the spend in on line/ social media these days. I am surprised how many leaflets I have recieved tbh. However only the Labour candidate has been out pounding the streets of my area. No sign of the incumbent Tory.

I have seen this seveal times. may I ask why?

That's what the Tories want - its all they have left.

NotE: the SDP of today are NOT the SDP of old. Would Shirley Williams have made an electoral pact with Farage?

A day late and a dollar short as always. They had Gillian Keegan out defending them this morning!

I have both an SDP and Reform Candidate in my area,