UK General Election 2024

[SuspectUsual]

It’s now being reported that “Tory sources” have confirmed that Sunak’s original plan was not to attend any of yesterday’s commemoration events as he was “too busy campaigning”

A “compromise” was then reached with the French

x.com

x.com

(Link to Adam Bienkov on twitter)


And also, further to my previous post about how bad the PM and his team are at politics - major policy about the importance of national service including the military, then decide to skip the commemoration of our military’s dead on D-day. The optics of it are just horrendous

 

[DoubleLemon]

Imagine, for a moment, a Labour Prime Minister leaving the d day commemorations early to film a TV interview.

Then imagine the frothing of the Tory press. It would be front page in the Mail, Express, Telegraph, Times and Sun for weeks with increasingly bonkers headlines and would be used to bash said person for the rest of time. Imagine then the whipped up noise from the hard of thinking about such an action

Look this morning at the response on the press to Sunak actually doing that.

Nothing wrong with the press in totally normal island apparently.

Just heard on the news (radio) that he has apologised for leaving early.

 

[DarloRich]

Just heard on the news (radio) that he has apologised for leaving early.

oh great - that's all right then..........................

 

[najaB]

It’s now being reported that “Tory sources” have confirmed that Sunak’s original plan was not to attend any of yesterday’s commemoration events as he was “too busy campaigning”

On the one hand, our head of state was attending so it's not like the UK didn't have the highest level of representation, but on the other hand it's not like he couldn't attend because he was dealing with some kind of grave threat to life or liberty.

Ah, wait. Another five years of this Tory government might well qualify!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Exactly - I am no fan of Corbyn but he would have been pilloried for it. Michael Foot is still attacked for wearing, checks notes, an apparently unacceptable coat, at the cenotaph!

Not a peep in the Tory propaganda sheets.

I just checked. The Telegraph and the Express are both currently leading with the story on their websites, as is the Times so it's not exactly 'not a peep' - though the Mail and the Sun don't seem to be covering it. And I agree with you that the coverage of the Corbyn and Foot stories back in the day was unfair.

 

[Busaholic]

Just heard on the news (radio) that he has apologised for leaving early.

Anyone else now thinking that the Tories might achieve both fewer seats than the LibDems and fewer votes in England than Reform? If it wasn't for FPTP and the expected plethora of candidates in his constituency, he might even lose Richmond, Yorks. 'Were you up for Sunak?' would knock the Portillo moment out of the park for all time.

News from under the radar yesterday that Douglas Ross, Conservative leader in Scotland and an MSP, is a rare rat joining a sinking ship and standing as an MP!

 

[birchesgreen]

Rishi honoured those who were first on the beach by being the first off it.

 

[dangie]

I’m sure the British public would have ‘excused’ the party leaders taking a day off from campaigning to attend the commemoration. In fact most would have welcomed it.

 

[Bantamzen]

Anyone that watched the BBC question time yesterday would seriously question if Labour winning big is good idea.

For those that haven't seen it, the audience questions were all the topics Starmer and Sunak have been avoiding (social care, fiscal drag in tax, downsides of Brexit etc). Labour ended up looking like a clone following similar unpopular policies to the Conservatives (who had Transport Minister, Mark Harper)

The two smaller parties (Green and Plaid Cmryu), completely nailed it, and I would think majority seeing it would get impression both Labour and Conservatives are as bad as each other, and what we really need is decent number of smaller parties holding them to account and working together to fix the country.

Unlike the dreadful to watch Starmer v Sunak debate, this one is definitely worth seeing on I-player.

Its kind of how I've felt about Labour for a while if I'm honest, a Tory clone party with a different coloured tie. And so far nationally they seem more interested in Tory blaming than promoting Labour policy, which doesn't help my perception of them.

But to be fair the Labour candidate in my area has been out and about knocking on doors like the old days, although sadly I was in the office when she banged on mine. However this at least means she's willing to meet the voters so I'm hoping to catch a discussion with her to get a feel for what she will do differently in my area.

 

[nw1]

Other than Jeremy Corbyn, I also can't think of any notable person that could cut through and result in any real gains. Politically, he's toxic - whereas Nigel Farage does appeal to a sizeable demographic.

I don't understand why Corbyn is "toxic" and Farage is not.

I'd probably say the reverse. Corbyn has not, as far as I know, ever actually said anything blatantly racist or xenophobic. Farage, on the other hand:

Nigel Farage defends Romanian comments amid racism claims

Nigel Farage defends controversial remarks he made about Romanians, saying people would be right to be concerned if a group moved in next door.

www.bbc.com

All that said, I would absolutely not support a breakaway left party as it risks splitting the left vote and letting the Tories in.

 

[birchesgreen]

I suspect if you drew a Venn diagram of people who consider Corbyn and Farage toxic it would look like this.

 

[DarloRich]

I just checked. The Telegraph and the Express are both currently leading with the story on their websites, as is the Times so it's not exactly 'not a peep' - though the Mail and the Sun don't seem to be covering it. And I agree with you that the coverage of the Corbyn and Foot stories back in the day was unfair.

Ok - but it ISNT on the front page of any papers save the Mirror. Would that be the case for a labour leader? They would be whipping up the hard of thinking to demand the traitorous labour scummer was run out of office and gibbeted.

Friday's newspaper front pages

Sky News takes a look at the headlines in Friday's newspaper front pages on the latest episode of our late-night show, The Wrap.

news.sky.com

Sky News takes a look at the stories making the headlines on Friday's national newspaper front pages.

Sunak was acted abysmally by scuttling home from the last D- Day celebration where those who served will be present to record an interview. It is really poor and disrespectful. The Tory press especially will give him a free ride.

The two smaller parties (Green and Plaid Cmryu), completely nailed it, and I would think majority seeing it would get impression both Labour and Conservatives are as bad as each other, and what we really need is decent number of smaller parties holding them to account and working together to fix the country.

of course they can. They have the freedom to say and do what they like. They wont form a government, have no real impact on the national debate and simply want to attract the kind of people more interested in ideological purity or right onism than power.

mature parties have to appeal to the centre to win, which requires compromise and hard choices. To suggest that Labour and Tory are the same is lazy thinking in the extreme. They may not be radical enough for your tastes but they are not the same.

I am not hard left myself, but I don't know why left wing Labour MPs and supporters don't from thier own party. A "Reform of the left" would do quite well, especially if Corbyn was leading it.

really? because when, checks notes ,Corbyn was leader of an actual party, he LOST. Massively. Twice.

 

[Gloster]

News from under the radar yesterday that Douglas Ross, Conservative leader in Scotland and an MSP, is a rare rat joining a sinking ship and standing as an MP!

Duguid, the MP who was expecting to stand for Aberdeenshire North & Moray East as it contained part of his old seat, although I am not sure if had been formally adopted, has been having treatment for a back problem, but seems to be recovering well. Suddenly on Wednesday he said he had been barred and Ross, whose seat was also partly contained in the new seat, put himself forward, seemingly with party backing. As far as I can remember, Ross had said that he would retire from Westminster and concentrate on his role as an MSP; he also acts as a football referee (or refereeing adviser). The SNP are rubbing their hands with glee.

 

[nw1]

Anyone that watched the BBC question time yesterday would seriously question if Labour winning big is good idea.

For those that haven't seen it, the audience questions were all the topics Starmer and Sunak have been avoiding (social care, fiscal drag in tax, downsides of Brexit etc). Labour ended up looking like a clone following similar unpopular policies to the Conservatives (who had Transport Minister, Mark Harper)

The two smaller parties (Green and Plaid Cmryu), completely nailed it, and I would think majority seeing it would get impression both Labour and Conservatives are as bad as each other, and what we really need is decent number of smaller parties holding them to account and working together to fix the country.

Unlike the dreadful to watch Starmer v Sunak debate, this one is definitely worth seeing on I-player.

This is most irritating but I suppose they believe it's the only way they can win; if they say anything slightly left-wing their belief is that they will be ripped to shreds by the press and the Tories.

Even still, I think they are over-doing it.

Their calculation is presumably that they won't lose any votes by leaning rightwards on these issues, whereas they will if they lean leftwards. The hope is that once they get in (as seems likely), they will become a bit more progressive.

 

[DarloRich]

It’s now being reported that “Tory sources” have confirmed that Sunak’s original plan was not to attend any of yesterday’s commemoration events as he was “too busy campaigning”

How can they be so clueless? The Tories are frit of Reform. The hard of thinking reformers are obsessed with the second world war ( even if their views on it are bonkers and incorrect) AND they fetishize remembrance and the poppy so WHY ON EARTH would you pass up the chance to be seen commemorating D-DAY with people who were actually there, getting some poppy action in early AND flagging yourself crazy?

For the slightly more sensible people it allows you to be seen as being on the same level as senior world leaders and gives the chance to look statesman like, sombre and mature AND lets you link previous sacrifices to your (admittedly bonkers) conscription plan at a later date!

Madness. Are they trying to lose?

 

[nw1]

How can they be so clueless? The Tories are frit of Reform. The hard of thinking reformers are obsessed with the second world war ( even if their views on it are bonkers and incorrect) AND they fetishize remembrance and the poppy so WHY ON EARTH would you pass up the chance to be seen commemorating D-DAY with people who were actually there, getting some poppy action in early AND flagging yourself crazy?

For the slightly more sensible people it allows you to be seen as being on the same level as senior world leaders and gives the chance to look statesman like, sombre and mature AND lets you link previous sacrifices to your (admittedly bonkers) conscription plan at a later date!

Madness. Are they trying to lose?

I'm beginning to wonder. I remember someone suggesting Sunak has been offered a job in the US; perhaps this is indeed the case and he has to start next month, or something.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Duguid, the MP who was expecting to stand for Aberdeenshire North & Moray East as it contained part of his old seat, although I am not sure if had been formally adopted, has been having treatment for a back problem, but seems to be recovering well. Suddenly on Wednesday he said he had been barred and Ross, whose seat was also partly contained in the new seat, put himself forward, seemingly with party backing. As far as I can remember, Ross had said that he would retire from Westminster and concentrate on his role as an MSP; he also acts as a football referee (or refereeing adviser). The SNP are rubbing their hands with glee.

Duguid replaced by do bad

 

[jfollows]

How can they be so clueless? The Tories are frit of Reform. The hard of thinking reformers are obsessed with the second world war ( even if their views on it are bonkers and incorrect) AND they fetishize remembrance and the poppy so WHY ON EARTH would you pass up the chance to be seen commemorating D-DAY with people who were actually there, getting some poppy action in early AND flagging yourself crazy?

For the slightly more sensible people it allows you to be seen as being on the same level as senior world leaders and gives the chance to look statesman like, sombre and mature AND lets you link previous sacrifices to your (admittedly bonkers) conscription plan at a later date!

Madness. Are they trying to lose?

Farage is going to enjoy being on the telly even more tonight, this is just ammunition for him and plays right into his hands. Penny Mordaunt will be unable to defend Sunak.

 

[DarloRich]

Farage is going to enjoy being on the telly even more tonight, this is just ammunition for him and plays right into his hands.

Exactly - there were numerous pictures Farage in Normandy in the social/actual media and he will milk that tonight making the Reformers purr as he strokes thier mental pleasure points.

What are the Tories doing? If your main worry is combatting Reform and Farage why are you giving him the space to perform and ammunition to use against you?

 

[WelshBluebird]

I'd probably say the reverse. Corbyn has not, as far as I know, ever actually said anything blatantly racist or xenophobic. Farage, on the other hand

The issue is that for a decent percentage of the electorate that kind of rhetoric is what they want to hear

 

[jfollows]

Exactly - there were numerous pictures Farage in Normandy in the social/actual media and he will milk that tonight making the Reformers purr as he strokes thier mental pleasure points.

What are the Tories doing? If your main worry is combatting Reform and Farage why are you giving him the space to perform and ammunition to use against you?

Until yesterday I was thinking that 100 seats was unduly pessimistic for the Conservatives, but now I'm thinking more that it's the best possible outcome for them and they're more likely to get fewer seats than that.

 

[DarloRich]

Until yesterday I was thinking that 100 seats was unduly pessimistic for the Conservatives, but now I'm thinking more that it's the best possible outcome for them and they're more likely to get fewer seats than that.

ideal scenario: labour landslide, change electoral system, keep Tories out for ever.

Actually: Sunak played a blinder yesterday. Well done that man!

 

[SuspectUsual]

ideal scenario: labour landslide, change electoral system, Sunak loses Richmond, keep Tories out for ever.

Actually: Sunak played a blinder yesterday. Well done that man!

You missed a bit out

 

[brad465]

Anyone that watched the BBC question time yesterday would seriously question if Labour winning big is good idea.

For those that haven't seen it, the audience questions were all the topics Starmer and Sunak have been avoiding (social care, fiscal drag in tax, downsides of Brexit etc). Labour ended up looking like a clone following similar unpopular policies to the Conservatives (who had Transport Minister, Mark Harper)

The two smaller parties (Green and Plaid Cmryu), completely nailed it, and I would think majority seeing it would get impression both Labour and Conservatives are as bad as each other, and what we really need is decent number of smaller parties holding them to account and working together to fix the country.

Unlike the dreadful to watch Starmer v Sunak debate, this one is definitely worth seeing on I-player.

Its kind of how I've felt about Labour for a while if I'm honest, a Tory clone party with a different coloured tie. And so far nationally they seem more interested in Tory blaming than promoting Labour policy, which doesn't help my perception of them.

But to be fair the Labour candidate in my area has been out and about knocking on doors like the old days, although sadly I was in the office when she banged on mine. However this at least means she's willing to meet the voters so I'm hoping to catch a discussion with her to get a feel for what she will do differently in my area.

This is fundamentally down to being a broad church party, you have to keep moderate/timid with your thinking in an attempt to avoid annoying a large core of your prospective voters. Smaller parties on the other hand are saying exactly what their supporters are thinking, which given their small size is easier to manage. Furthermore, it's the swing voters who ultimately decide elections, even though they're such a small proportion of all voters. When they broadly want the same things, the main parties are going to look similar in appealing to them.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

ideal scenario: labour landslide, change electoral system, keep Tories out for ever.

I don't think a Labour landslide is going to achieve a change in the electoral system since Keir Starmer seems completely uninterested in that, despite much of the Labour party wanting it. I'm not sure what the most likely plausible way is to create the political circumstances that would make changing the electoral system realistic, though I guess the stronger the LibDems do, the more likely it becomes.

 

[jfollows]

I don't think a Labour landslide is going to achieve a change in the electoral system since Keir Starmer seems completely uninterested in that, despite much of the Labour party wanting it. I'm not sure what the most likely plausible way is to create the political circumstances that would make changing the electoral system realistic, though I guess the stronger the LibDems do, the more likely it becomes.

I agree.
Labour landslide -> vested interest in keeping the existing system.
I still want a Labour landslide, but it won't result in a change to the electoral system. It'll just consign the Tory right wing to irrelevance for longer than otherwise.

 

[DarloRich]

I don't think a Labour landslide is going to achieve a change in the electoral system since Keir Starmer seems completely uninterested in that, despite much of the Labour party wanting it. I'm not sure what the most likely plausible way is to create the political circumstances that would make changing the electoral system realistic, though I guess the stronger the LibDems do, the more likely it becomes.

I agree.
Labour landslide -> vested interest in keeping the existing system.
I still want a Labour landslide, but it won't result in a change to the electoral system. It'll just consign the Tory right wing to irrelevance for longer than otherwise.

I did mention " ideal world scenario"!

 

[Howardh]

I don't think a Labour landslide is going to achieve a change in the electoral system since Keir Starmer seems completely uninterested in that, despite much of the Labour party wanting it. I'm not sure what the most likely plausible way is to create the political circumstances that would make changing the electoral system realistic, though I guess the stronger the LibDems do, the more likely it becomes.

I'm surprised as the boundary changes have been said to benefit the Tories, whereas PR is an equal playing field.

But the thought is if Tories, Reform and the Tories had 25% each, we might end up with a Lab/Tory coalition to keep Farage out!!

 

[Bantamzen]

This is fundamentally down to being a broad church party, you have to keep moderate/timid with your thinking in an attempt to avoid annoying a large core of your prospective voters. Smaller parties on the other hand are saying exactly what their supporters are thinking, which given their small size is easier to manage. Furthermore, it's the swing voters who ultimately decide elections, even though they're such a small proportion of all voters. When they broadly want the same things, the main parties are going to look similar in appealing to them.

The problem is that if they try to keep it too broad nothing much happens. There are a lot of things that need urgent and fundamental change in this country, but if a new Labour government simply keeps policy changes timid and flag wavy then the electorate will quickly become restless, playing right back into the hands of the Tories.

 

[brad465]

The problem is that if they try to keep it too broad nothing much happens. There are a lot of things that need urgent and fundamental change in this country, but if a new Labour government simply keeps policy changes timid and flag wavy then the electorate will quickly become restless, playing right back into the hands of the Tories.

True, which is why we need a wholesale systemic reform of all the political systems. This is not going to come through an election on its own, but through relevant grassroots campaigns putting pressure on the next government. There are several that I can see gaining serious traction after the election to influence the election after.