Turning a DVT into a locomotive - can it be done?

[Clansman]

With all these train regeneration projects that have taken place such as the Evolution prototypes of EMU/DMUs, as well as Viva Rail and the Class 73s, would it theoretically be possible to turn a DVT into either an electric or diesel locomotive?

If TOCs are unwilling to take on the HSTs because of the ever aging Class 43 power cars, then could it be economically viable to invest in turning a DVT into a locomotive, in a similar way as they rebuilt the Class 73s, which could prolong the life of older rolling stock such as the Mk3s. There's bound to be a wad of unused Mk3 DVTs from Virgin WC, so why not put them to use with carriages which still rely on HSTs or bi-directional (2 cabs) locomotives which are better served on freight?

Surprised no ones attempted to do it, given all the fiery hype surrounding Viva Rail and the Evolution series.

Not a proposal or a nostalgia fantasy thread for trainspotters

 

[43021HST]

Just send it off to the top gear boys who'll dump an ex pacer engine in it and gear box and off it goes.

 

[Great_Western]

Surely keeping mark 4 rakes + dvt as they are and just substituting the 90 for an 88 or 68 would be far cheaper?

 

[NotATrainspott]

There wouldn't be much left of the DVT once you've finished, so you may as well just build a new loco in the first place.

 

[Clansman]

There wouldn't be much left of the DVT once you've finished, so you may as well just build a new loco in the first place.

Fair enough, but the main question is - could it be done?

 

[TrainfanBen]

I contemplated something similar with MK2 DBSO carriages, motorise them, put two together and you have a cheap multiple unit.

EDIT: If only it was that easy.

 

[43096]

Fair enough, but the main question is - could it be done?

Unlikely - the bodyshell was not designed for taking heavy locomotive equipment.

More generally, what is it with people coming up with daft ideas currently?

 

[KNotts]

How about turning DVT into a seated DVT and running 1 power car, 4 mk3 and one of these.

 

[Clansman]

There'll be 30 Mk3 DVTs lying spare by 2020 if I'm right in saying, and given how long certain stock has had it's life prolonged through practices like the Evolution series, Viva Rail and the 73s rebuild, the DVTs would look a wasted opportunity in comparison.

More generally, what is it with people coming up with daft ideas currently?

Not got a clue...and I thought it was ridiculous to try and turn D stock into DMUs.

 

[yorkie]

Fair enough, but the main question is - could it be done?

No, there is no way it could feasibly be done.

 

[jopsuk]

In the US they've done the exact opposite, turning some old locos into DVTs. A considerably easier prospect.

I'd have thought the chassis would require such extensive modification that it would be better to start from scratch. A modern locomotive, especially one built for the UK loading gauge, will be designed around its power plant.

 

[Clansman]

No, there is no way it could feasibly be done.

Glad that's settled then

 

[superalbs]

What would the class number be?

 

[najaB]

Turning a DVT into a locomotive - can it be done?

Yes. With application of sufficient amounts of cash, pretty much anything can be done.

Is there any chance it will happen? Nope.

 

[Clansman]

Yes. With application of sufficient amounts of cash, pretty much anything can be done.

Is there any chance it will happen? Nope.

No chance, never - unless Viva Rail decide to venture. Although it'd go up in smoke I'd imagine.

 

[TrainfanBen]

No chance, never - unless Viva Rail decide to venture. Although it'd go up in smoke I'd imagine.

If the vehicle was non motorised I don't see how it could

 

[TheEdge]

If the vehicle was non motorised I don't see how it could

Life, and Viva Rail, finds a way...

 

[Peter Mugridge]

If the vehicle was non motorised I don't see how it could

A non-motorised locomotive? That would be interesting...

 

[DarloRich]

Fair enough, but the main question is - could it be done?

but why - what is the benefit?

I doubt the structure of what is basically a van would be up to it. Obviously if you chucked endless amounts of cash at something it could be done but i don't see the point beyond an engineering challenge type question.

 

[a_c_skinner]

Not a locomotive but ages ago on an early Grand Central trip I overheard Tom Clift discussing train heat generators in a DVT to widen his choice of locomotives for other new services. He and a colleague were having a long theoretical "can do" discussion about rolling stock, an area where "can't do" sadly seems the norm.

Andrew

 

[sprinterguy]

There'll be 30 Mk3 DVTs lying spare by 2020 if I'm right in saying, and given how long certain stock has had it's life prolonged through practices like...the 73s rebuild, the DVTs would look a wasted opportunity in comparison.

I'm not sure how the two can be considered comparable. The class 73 rebuild has involved fitting more efficient diesel engines to an existing electro diesel design. Never say never, but while it has proved possible to fit diesel generators to Chiltern's mark 3 DVTs, fitting a (heavy) locomotive spec diesel engine to a previously unpowered coaching stock vehicle seems unlikely. It's quite a step up from fitting a DMU-sized engine beneath the floor of an existing multiple unit design.

 

[sprinterguy]

No chance, never - unless Viva Rail decide to venture. Although it'd go up in smoke I'd imagine.

It's astonishing how quickly some members of this forum can be to jump on isolated or infrequent events like this to decry a particular traction type. Class 158s suffered eight fires during 2016, far more than those suffered in total by the D-train prototype, class 172s or 70s which have all been commented upon on this forum, yet nobody seems to be running to lambast them.

 

[Clansman]

but why - what is the benefit?

I doubt the structure of what is basically a van would be up to it. Obviously if you chucked endless amounts of cash at something it could be done but i don't see the point beyond an engineering challenge type question.

Just simply a questioning without any reasoning behind it.

As said in my first post, it's not a proposal, simply a question.

 

[43096]

It's astonishing how quickly some members of this forum can be to jump on isolated or infrequent events like this to decry a particular traction type. Class 158s suffered eight fires during 2016, far more than those suffered in total by the D-train prototype, class 172s or 70s which have all been commented upon on this forum, yet nobody seems to be running to lambast them.

158s have 25+ years service history behind them. The 230 is a new project that needs credibility to succeed. Catching fire within days of starting mainline testing does nothing for that. Arguably the general state of the train outlined in VivaRail's report is even more concerning: it's meant to be a demonstrater for orders, yet is/was in a state where no TOC would have had it in traffic.

 

[trainmania100]

Anything is possible
Stick a ford engine in it

 

[alexl92]

What would the class number be?

Surely leave them in the 82XXX series they currently occupy?

 

[GW43125]

Surely leave them in the 82XXX series they currently occupy?

82xxx did exist many moons ago, which could maybe cause issues. I think maybe 93 is the next one that hasn't yet existed?

 

[DarloRich]

Just simply a questioning without any reasoning behind it.

As said in my first post, it's not a proposal, simply a question.

In that case yes it should be possible ( but not for an affordable price)

Not a locomotive but ages ago on an early Grand Central trip I overheard Tom Clift discussing train heat generators in a DVT to widen his choice of locomotives for other new services. He and a colleague were having a long theoretical "can do" discussion about rolling stock, an area where "can't do" sadly seems the norm.

Andrew

Don't Chiltern and perhaps NR DVT's already have gen sets in their DVT?

 

[t_star2001uk]

No chance, never - unless Viva Rail decide to venture. Although it'd go up in smoke I'd imagine.

So what manufacturer has built a train that didn't have a fire at some point. Yes the 230 is new and was on a test run when the fire happened, but i thought the idea of testing was to find the faults and correct them. Most new or re-purposed rolling stock come with some inherent faults that's the gamble of re-purposing, just because there was a fire it has identified a potential failure point which can now be re-engineered to make safe.

Now back to the thread...

 

[trac]

Life, and Viva Rail, finds a way...

Could it be converted to a steam locomotive?