Transdev Blazefield

[Ken H]

For a history lesson....

Prior to dereg, the York to Scarborough route was always hourly (except winter Sundays when it was two hourly). With the 744/746 from Brid/Hull to York then Leeds, this formed the half hourly headway from York to Leeds. When joint operation ceased c.1988, EYMS took the shortened 744/6 and instead, an 844 was introduced from York to Leeds. This was operated by York depot but when Yorkshire Coastliner was carved out in its own right as a business, all 843/844 journeys were worked from Malton so that meant extending the shorts to Malton.

Contrary to @Ken H recollection, at dereg, the Malton to Whitby service was transferred to East Yorkshire (Scarborough and District) as compensation for losing its share on the Scarborough to Middlesbrough service. It consisted of an irregular service between Malton and Pickering, of which three or four went over the top to Whitby. United retained some schools journeys from Goathland to Whitby IIRC

Subsequently, this was integrated into the main Coastliner route but the section from Whitby to Pickering has kept at 3/4 journeys a day save the introduction of seasonal expresses, and that's what we see today. Rolling stock on the 843 in the late 1980s was NBC era ECW Olympians and they were later replaced by Northern Counties examples. However, 5 late model Leyland Tigers with Plaxton Paramount III bodies were bought for the 840 as it had become in 1990, and they were subsequently replaced with the last single decks being Wright Eclipses. However, ENCTS came along, pass usage went up and deckers were required and hence deckers were specified throughout.

There's probably more (and the odd error) but that's mainly how we ended up where we are today (to keep it relevant).

Thanks
Trying to work out bus provision after about 1985 becomes difficult as timetable books stopped being produced and all there were were leaflets for each service.
Only later there was the internet and there is an archive of sorts on wayback machine internet archive.
So there is a 15-20 year gap in the historical document record.

 

[M803UYA]

For a history lesson....

Prior to dereg, the York to Scarborough route was always hourly (except winter Sundays when it was two hourly). With the 744/746 from Brid/Hull to York then Leeds, this formed the half hourly headway from York to Leeds. When joint operation ceased c.1988, EYMS took the shortened 744/6 and instead, an 844 was introduced from York to Leeds. This was operated by York depot but when Yorkshire Coastliner was carved out in its own right as a business, all 843/844 journeys were worked from Malton so that meant extending the shorts to Malton.

Contrary to @Ken H recollection, at dereg, the Malton to Whitby service was transferred to East Yorkshire (Scarborough and District) as compensation for losing its share on the Scarborough to Middlesbrough service. It consisted of an irregular service between Malton and Pickering, of which three or four went over the top to Whitby. United retained some schools journeys from Goathland to Whitby IIRC

Subsequently, this was integrated into the main Coastliner route but the section from Whitby to Pickering has kept at 3/4 journeys a day save the introduction of seasonal expresses, and that's what we see today. Rolling stock on the 843 in the late 1980s was NBC era ECW Olympians and they were later replaced by Northern Counties examples. However, 5 late model Leyland Tigers with Plaxton Paramount III bodies were bought for the 840 as it had become in 1990, and they were subsequently replaced with the last single decks being Wright Eclipses. However, ENCTS came along, pass usage went up and deckers were required and hence deckers were specified throughout.

There's probably more (and the odd error) but that's mainly how we ended up where we are today (to keep it relevant).

I'm confused as to why Transdev doesn't take a few steps back in history and split off the Whitby-Malton section and run it with smaller vehicles. Assuming of course Malton didn't close, that'd reduce the operational costs (primarily the fuel cost - doubles drink more than singles) and if the vehicle was the correct size (around 40 seats plated for 20 standing) that handles any spike in loadings which you'd get in the summer months.

Of course a fully laden single deck with 20 standing passengers could be entertaining coming up Staithes and Blue Bank on the A169 - but I'm surprised the company hasn't explored that option ahead of just canning the route. They're supposed to be innovative and like to remind everyone of the fact.....

Something else important to remember when it comes to history is that Yorkshire Coastliner didn't have the head office overheads correctly apportioned. That somewhat inflated the profit margin and had the costs been borne in the correct way (rather than by the main operations) the profit might have looked less impressive, but still impressive.

 

[Megafuss]

If the custom existed there is no reason why earlier, and latter, workings to and from Whitby cannot occur; a 0500 from Malton would allow for a southbound departure from Whitby at around half 6 for example, and could be run later from Malton if northbound it skipped Goathland. Suspect the issue is the timetable is presumably set to meet North Yorkshire County Councils minimal requirements and ultimately that could end up with a service on Tuesdays and Saturdays only to coincide with Whitby market days.

That one extra trip from Malton to Whitby and back would probably cost around £130 to £180 a day. I cannot see them doing that without significant subsidy.

 

[darloscott]

The tender out from North Yorkshire County Council (NYCC) is 3 round trips a day… timed to connect with the Coastliner timetable in Malton. Run from the Malton end so I’m not sure who will bid apart from Transdev.

 

[Ken H]

The tender out from NYCC is 3 round trips a day… timed to connect with the Coastliner timetable in Malton. Run from the Malton end so I’m not sure who will bid apart from Transdev.

What type of vehicle? A minibus will do some days, other days you need a decker.
Could you make Thornton Dale - Sleights a 'Scenic route' so ENCTS holders need to pay? Some special arrangement for people with a 'local' postcode.

 

[Delenn]

The tender out from North Yorkshire County Council (NYCC) is 3 round trips a day… timed to connect with the Coastliner timetable in Malton. Run from the Malton end so I’m not sure who will bid apart from Transdev.

Is there anywhere we can see the tender?

 

[Deerfold]

Thanks
Trying to work out bus provision after about 1985 becomes difficult as timetable books stopped being produced and all there were were leaflets for each service.
Only later there was the internet and there is an archive of sorts on wayback machine internet archive.
So there is a 15-20 year gap in the historical document record.

I've got numerous Coastliner booklets, none from before 1986.

Or did you mean countywide books?

Somewhere I've a 1988 all West Yorkshire book, bit nothing later than that.

 

[Metroman62]

With the unreliable rail service from York to Scarborough which seems to have gone on for ages, perhaps there is an opportunity to provide some decent competition by offering a reliable and faster 843 service. Cutting out stops in York and Scarborough would speed up the journey. If a fast route in and out of York could be found then again a time saving would be good. When I have used the 843 it is frustrating to crawl throug York

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I've got numerous Coastliner booklets, none from before 1986.

Or did you mean countywide books?

Somewhere I've a 1988 all West Yorkshire book, bit nothing later than that.

Prior to 1986, it was in the West Yorkshire booklets (as YC was nothing other than a brand introduced in 1983 on some Leopards, and then new Olympians in 1985/6).

If you look on Timetable World

• There's a 1985 West Yorkshire Harrogate timetable that shows the summer Sunday service from York to Whitby - (three round trips plus another to Danby Lodge), but also the full 842/843 plus summer expresses to Scarborough
• There's an October 1989 York City and District timetable book that someone scanned in - it has the 843/844 after East Yorkshire had stopped running to Leeds.
• Then there's the Great British Bus TT on there as well from summer 1997 - shows 4 year round trips to Whitby (plus two summer X40s) but the 843 on a Sunday has some noticeable gaps in the headway.

So to relate that to today, ENCTS has undoubtedly contributed to greater patronage but with North Yorkshire's derisory reimbursement, it doesn't stack up financially.

 

[Seehof]

Does anybody know whether Transdev are getting additional buses for York’s route 12 they have taken over from First? If so, what are they? If not, what do they plan to use on the route? Thank you.

 

[Tempest3K]

Does anybody know whether Transdev are getting additional buses for York’s route 12 they have taken over from First? If so, what are they? If not, what do they plan to use on the route? Thank you.

As it's temporary, I'd expect the usual drafting in of a couple of 'Pride of the North' vehicles for now.

 

[dodecahedron67]

Does anybody know whether Transdev are getting additional buses for York’s route 12 they have taken over from First? If so, what are they? If not, what do they plan to use on the route? Thank you.

It only requires 2 buses so would be surprised if any additionals were actually needed with the presence of B7RLE 1867/MMC 2019

 

[RustySpoons]

Things seem to be on the slide again in Burnley. Very recently there only tended to be 6 or 7 journeys acknowledged as cancelled. Not great, but it did seem things were slowly heading in the right direction. However, Friday seemed pretty dire with quite a few journeys dropped across all services, and today there's been a total of 60+ dropped.

As of now...

Witchway X43
Burnley to Manchester Chorlton St 1.10pm, 3pm, 5.15pm
Manchester Chorlton St to Burnley 2.40pm, 4.30pm, 6.50pm

The 2
Higherford to Burnley 11.38am, 1.08pm, 2.38pm, 4.23pm, 6.08pm
Burnley to Higherford 12.25pm, 1.55pm, 3.35pm, 5.20pm

The 5
Rosegrove to Harle Syke 10.50am, 12.10pm, 1.30pm, 2.50pm, 4.10pm, 5.30pm
Harle Syke to Rosegrove 11.30am, 12.50pm, 2.10pm, 3.30pm, 4.50pm

RibbleCountry 6
Burnley to Colne Park High School 12.25pm, 4.27pm
Colne Park High School to Burnley 1.47pm,, 6.02pm

RibbleCountry 14
Burnley to Clifton Farm Circular 11.18am, 3.18pm, 7.33pm

The majority of the AM cancellations have been deleted from the Service Updates as the afternoon ones are added.

There doesn't seem to be anywhere near as many services dropped at other depots.

Hopefully whatever is going on gets sorted soon. A colleague tried to make the most of the £2 fare cap and use the bus to commute in to work as there's a bus stop right outside her house. In one week the bus failed to show up four times, only twice it was acknowledged as not running. Now she's adamant the bus is useless and won't bother catching it again.

 

[Megafuss]

For what it's worth, I spent two days riding Transdev Blazefield (west side) last week.

I found the service nothing special, even Sky Class was underwhelming - it's still a plastic MMC, not matter how much it's tarted up.

Alhough I will say, everything I went for turned up and was generally in an acceptable state.

 

[Swimbar]

For what it's worth, I spent two days riding Transdev Blazefield (west side) last week.

I found the service nothing special, even Sky Class was underwhelming - it's still a plastic MMC, not matter how much it's tarted up.

Alhough I will say, everything I went for turned up and was generally in an acceptable state.

Presuming that Sky Class refers to the X98/99 (Leeds - Wetherby) and that is the 'West Side' of Transdev Blazefield, what side does that make Burnley? I would have thought the Pennines would determine East & West?

 

[Andyh82]

The WitchWay is ‘Sky Class’ as well

Things seem to be on the slide again in Burnley. Very recently there only tended to be 6 or 7 journeys acknowledged as cancelled. Not great, but it did seem things were slowly heading in the right direction. However, Friday seemed pretty dire with quite a few journeys dropped across all services, and today there's been a total of 60+ dropped.

As of now...



The majority of the AM cancellations have been deleted from the Service Updates as the afternoon ones are added.

There doesn't seem to be anywhere near as many services dropped at other depots.

Hopefully whatever is going on gets sorted soon. A colleague tried to make the most of the £2 fare cap and use the bus to commute in to work as there's a bus stop right outside her house. In one week the bus failed to show up four times, only twice it was acknowledged as not running. Now she's adamant the bus is useless and won't bother catching it again.

Looks like that list is about 5 drivers worth of work

Maybe there is a outbreak of flu going around at the depot

Probably nothing more suspicious than that

 

[158756]

Things seem to be on the slide again in Burnley. Very recently there only tended to be 6 or 7 journeys acknowledged as cancelled. Not great, but it did seem things were slowly heading in the right direction. However, Friday seemed pretty dire with quite a few journeys dropped across all services, and today there's been a total of 60+ dropped.

As of now...



The majority of the AM cancellations have been deleted from the Service Updates as the afternoon ones are added.

There doesn't seem to be anywhere near as many services dropped at other depots.

Hopefully whatever is going on gets sorted soon. A colleague tried to make the most of the £2 fare cap and use the bus to commute in to work as there's a bus stop right outside her house. In one week the bus failed to show up four times, only twice it was acknowledged as not running. Now she's adamant the bus is useless and won't bother catching it again.

Yes, I don't know what's happened but the number of cancellations seems to have shot up over the last week or two.

There's also the issue that the app, which had seemed to be pretty close to 100% accurate, recently seems to have developed some issues with buses not showing up on the tracker, or sometimes disappearing or jumping a few miles in one step, as if there's a problem with the signal (and also occasionally showing wrong route numbers and vehicle types). Which is especially unhelpful when there are actually buses missing as well as the ones just not tracking.

 

[Swimbar]

The WitchWay is ‘Sky Class’ as well


Looks like that list is about 5 drivers worth of work

Maybe there is a outbreak of flu going around at the depot

Probably nothing more suspicious than that

I do wonder is there is a North/South divide on Bus Drivers Wages. Transdev are now advertising their new hourly rate of £13.50 per hour. (First York £13.95 rising to £14.35 on April 1st)
I recently spent some time on holiday with a Director of a Bus Company in Essex. They already pay £15 per hour but also make extensive use of Agency Drivers (which costs them £25 per hour) in order to provide the level of service which they have advertised. Providing a service appeared to be the priority at her Company, even if it cost more!

 

[Deerfold]

Presuming that Sky Class refers to the X98/99 (Leeds - Wetherby) and that is the 'West Side' of Transdev Blazefield, what side does that make Burnley? I would have thought the Pennines would determine East & West?

Transdev also describe the X43 Witchway as Sky Class.

Sorry, we can't find this page!

www.transdevbus.co.uk

Sky Class​

Mon 19th Jul 2021

Creating the ultimate in comfort for your journey.​

A multi-million pound investment in the highest-specification buses ever seen, for two key interurban routes – Witchway between Burnley and Manchester, and X98/99 linking Leeds with Wetherby – is delivering a major boost for customers and creating the kind of desire needed to give people an alternative to everyday use of the private car.

 

[RustySpoons]

The WitchWay is ‘Sky Class’ as well


Looks like that list is about 5 drivers worth of work

Maybe there is a outbreak of flu going around at the depot

Probably nothing more suspicious than that

Maybe so, but 60+ dropped journeys isn't good for a prospective passenger. Especially at what is a perfect time to lure people away from their cars.

For what it's worth, I spent two days riding Transdev Blazefield (west side) last week.

I found the service nothing special, even Sky Class was underwhelming - it's still a plastic MMC, not matter how much it's tarted up.

Alhough I will say, everything I went for turned up and was generally in an acceptable state.

Each to their own, and granted I've only had a few experiences with the X43 flavour of Sky Class but I find it a seriously impressive offering. Spotless, high quality interiors with nice soft lighting and comfy seats with nice features (lights, hooks for bags, etc). Everyone keeps going on about MMC build quality but I've yet to experience one that rattles or squeaks. In fact the only annoyance I found was Fiz from Corrie yakking away and an overly enthusiastic local radio DJ-esq next stop announcer mispronouncing local street names breaking the silence.

 

[SCH117X]

Does anybody know whether Transdev are getting additional buses for York’s route 12 they have taken over from First? If so, what are they? If not, what do they plan to use on the route? Thank you.

According to bustimes as expected one today is Pride of the North B7RLE 1867 and the other has been "one team" Gemini 2 2428 last at Malton

 

[Delenn]

According to bustimes as expected one today is Pride of the North B7RLE 1867 and the other has been "one team" Gemini 2 2428 last at Malton

Yes I saw the one with the flags on the 12 today.

 

[northernchris]

Things seem to be on the slide again in Burnley. Very recently there only tended to be 6 or 7 journeys acknowledged as cancelled. Not great, but it did seem things were slowly heading in the right direction. However, Friday seemed pretty dire with quite a few journeys dropped across all services, and today there's been a total of 60+ dropped.

As of now...



The majority of the AM cancellations have been deleted from the Service Updates as the afternoon ones are added.

There doesn't seem to be anywhere near as many services dropped at other depots.

Hopefully whatever is going on gets sorted soon. A colleague tried to make the most of the £2 fare cap and use the bus to commute in to work as there's a bus stop right outside her house. In one week the bus failed to show up four times, only twice it was acknowledged as not running. Now she's adamant the bus is useless and won't bother catching it again.

Keighley is also deteriorating, although it looks to be a vehicle shortage rather than driver issue as cancellations spike around 1400-1600 with buses being pulled to cover school runs before returning to regular service. Add in that some drivers won't wait at timing points and it creates some quite significant gaps which then causes crowding and adds further delay due to the dwell time at stops.

I do wonder if some depots are seeing drivers leave once they have received the full welcome bonus, especially if other operators nearby are paying more.

 

[david737]

A bit of good news, earlier today I read on the 'Stray Ferret' (a local online news outlet for Harrogate) that North York's council have agreed funding for the 24 Harrogate to Pateley Bridge until at least April next year and still to be operated by Harrogate Bus co.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

The tender out from North Yorkshire County Council (NYCC) is 3 round trips a day… timed to connect with the Coastliner timetable in Malton. Run from the Malton end so I’m not sure who will bid apart from Transdev.

Go Ahead could bid and run dead or with positioning extras from Scarborough to Malton, Reliance too could bid and ran dead from Wiggington to Malton. These are the only two other operators who could run from the Malton end unless Arriva North East ran a couple of commercial journeys from/to Whitby to interwork with the tendered three a day and operated out of Loftus.

 

[Swimbar]

Go Ahead could bid and run dead or with positioning extras from Scarborough to Malton, Reliance too could bid and ran dead from Wiggington to Malton. These are the only two other operators who could run from the Malton end unless Arriva North East ran a couple of commercial journeys from/to Whitby to interwork with the tendered three a day and operated out of Loftus.

Loftus depot closed years ago. Whitby is now an outstation of Redcar. Presumably they could increase the allocation of Whitby by a couple of vehicles and do an early morning and late evening trip which would be better for the people of Whitby.

 

[SCH117X]

Malton is only around a mile furter than Otley is from Tockwith. I would expect Connexions would jump at the chance to have a go at Coastliner and also it could attract York Pullman or even First York

 

[Andyh82]

Is this tender that has been issued only for winter, or all year round?

As surely Coastliner would run it commercially over the summer

 

[RustySpoons]

A bit of good news, earlier today I read on the 'Stray Ferret' (a local online news outlet for Harrogate) that North York's council have agreed funding for the 24 Harrogate to Pateley Bridge until at least April next year and still to be operated by Harrogate Bus co.

Glad that another route has been saved! The 24 seems to be another one that always seem to have more people complaining that it's going to be cut than actually use it. Though that always seems to be the case with relatively rural routes.

Incidentally, whatever happened to the two electric Solo's that used to run this route? They disappeared a while back now (possibly pre-covid) but apparently returned but no one could confirm if they were still electric or converted to regular diesel engines.

 

[SCH117X]

The electric Solos were withdrawn as they did not meet necessary covid social distancing for the number of passengers carried and with the reduced timetable the loadings today can be heavy on some workings. The old 930 arrival at Harrogate was always pretty full when I saw it and the 1100 from Pateley Bridge looked pretty well loaded a couple of weeks back (maybe assisted by the £2 fare) as it neared Killinghall. The Solos are now with The Big Lemon in Brighton. Photos of them on Flickr

https://www.flickr.com/photos/richardcovey/52639217718/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/richardcovey/52638741181/

and remain electric.