Train derailment near Córdoba, Spain

[chrisjo]

The 120 involved is 120-361 / 120-661
The Iryo is 109-012

Listadotren.es

www.listadotren.es

Listadotren.es

www.listadotren.es

 

[lfc84]

This website shows Guardia Civil taking photographs of what appears to be a broken rail as part of their investigation

La investigación analiza si la rotura en un tramo de la vía es "causa o consecuencia" del accidente en Adamuz

La investigación analiza si la rotura en un tramo de la vía es "causa o consecuencia" del accidente en Adamuz

www.rtve.es

 

[43096]

I don’t see any evidence of the trains colliding. Perhaps close ups of the protruding Iryo coaches may show scrapes/paint transfers. But the part of the Iryo train that would likely be involved in any impact with the Renfe looks largely intact.

There looks to be some heavy impact damage at the leading corner of car 7 of the Iryo train.

 

[azOOOOOma]

Are rails known to break in two separate places and a chunk of the rail to be missing? My limited knowledge of broken rail is a single crack/break and not a missing chunk. Anyone able to advise if it is plausible that a rail has cracked in two separate places and a major chunk failing?

 

[321362]

Are rails known to break in two separate places and a chunk of the rail to be missing? My limited knowledge of broken rail is a single crack/break and not a missing chunk. Anyone able to advise if it is plausible that a rail has cracked in two separate places and a major chunk failing?

I'm not an expert, but to my knowledge if there's fatigue cracks throughout the rail it could plausibly fail in two places simultaneously if there was a severe force exterted on it (likely downwards) such as a train running over it at speed.

The missing chunk could be a result of the derailment and not a cause.

 

[hwl]

Can someone explain to me why the rails appear to be so badly damaged here? It's a video from the Guardia Civil (widely reposted on X, so apologies for the source).

The Alvia train is to the south of this image, the Iryo train is to the north. Would a simple derailment of the Iryo train cause so much damage to the track?

View attachment 196169

The derailment of the Iryo train started further south, this is just where the worst damage was and ths start of the debris for the southbound train. There are also some facing points slightly further south that might have constrained the movement of the track a bit more than all plain line track, increasing the stress on the HAZ next to the weld.

 

[321362]

If earlier posts are to be believed about a broken rail being the cause it throws up a lot of questions about the maintenance and design.

Probably shouldn't speculate this early on though.

 

[hwl]

Are rails known to break in two separate places and a chunk of the rail to be missing? My limited knowledge of broken rail is a single crack/break and not a missing chunk. Anyone able to advise if it is plausible that a rail has cracked in two separate places and a major chunk failing?

I'm not an expert, but to my knowledge if there's fatigue cracks throughout the rail it could plausibly fail in two places simultaneously if there was a severe force exterted on it (likely downwards) such as a train running over it at speed.

The missing chunk could be a result of the derailment and not a cause.

There is a weld (still intact) just to the right of the "yellow 1" and the failure is in the heat affected zone (HAZ) about 2"-3" north of the weld. The HAZ is a high probability failure location.

 

[Cloud Strife]

The derailment of the Iryo train started further south, this is just where the worst damage was and ths start of the debris for the southbound train. There are also some facing points slightly further south that might have constrained the movement of the track a bit more than all plain line track, increasing the stress on the HAZ next to the weld.

Thank you!

I've found another video that perhaps shows where the collision might have taken place. It looks to my uneducated eye like a potential glancing blow, which would explain why the Iryo train is relatively undamaged.

 

[68000]

This website shows this picture.

La investigación analiza si la rotura en un tramo de la vía es "causa o consecuencia" del accidente en Adamuz

La investigación analiza si la rotura en un tramo de la vía es "causa o consecuencia" del accidente en Adamuz

www.rtve.es

View attachment 196170

Is that rail side on i.e. the black marks are the bottom sitting on the sleepers?

 

[edwin_m]

Is that rail side on i.e. the black marks are the bottom sitting on the sleepers?

Yes, the rail has rolled outwards onto its side.

Trains may be able to pass over a single rail break, causing a lurch that the driver will hopefully report. However, the wheels striking the unsupported end will increase the stresses on the rails, particularly above the following sleeper in the direction of travel, and this might result in a second break.

I'm also remembering Hatfield where extensive cracking caused the rail to break in more than two places.

 

[YorkshireBear]

This website shows this picture.

La investigación analiza si la rotura en un tramo de la vía es "causa o consecuencia" del accidente en Adamuz

La investigación analiza si la rotura en un tramo de la vía es "causa o consecuencia" del accidente en Adamuz

www.rtve.es

View attachment 196170

The lack of any other damage around that site makes me suspect that could be them photographing the potential cause. Pure speculation obviously. The aerial footage shows very extensive track damage around the vehicles.

Looks like a very very nasty crash where the layers of cheese (including the onces affecting the consequence) lined up perfectly.

 

[hwl]

The lack of any other damage around that site makes me suspect that could be them photographing the potential cause.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Segedunum]

A reminder that while we do support healthy discussion, considering that many will be following this tragic incident with interest, please refrain from unfounded speculation in this thread.

 

[neonison]

Is the line RH or LH running?

 

[Wychwood93]

Is the line RH or LH running?

Right hand.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Is the line RH or LH running?

Spain's AVE lines all have right hand running, like most of the classic lines.
The Norte classic railway lines (Madrid-Irun) still have left hand running, but the AVE replacements are right hand.

 

[Sorcerer]

My sympathies to both those injured and the families of those who tragically lost their lives. I won't go into speculation about it, but I sincerely hope this is a somewhat isolated incident and not the result of something systematic. But on another note we can at least take solace in knowing that accidents of this nature are extremely rare, and I hope the authorities can get to the bottom of it soon.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

What is particularly upsetting is that every time I turn on the news the death toll seems to climb. Absolutely tragic.

 

[JohnofWessex]

From Gareth Dennis a Pway engineer

https://x.com/GarethDennis/status/2013228051383898494

The first 5 cars of the 8-car train pass safely over the break, but repeated impacts turn a break into a catastrophic rail failure, and the 3 rear cars of the northbound train are derailed as the rail shatters.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's worth noting that the only high speed crash involving Frecciarossa 1000 trains previously was at Livraga in Lombardy on the Italian network, on 6 Feb 2020.
Running at line speed under clear signals, the train was diverted onto a maintenance loop because the facing points had been left in the wrong position after overnight maintenance, and derailed.
No other trains were involved, and the casualties were 2 dead (both drivers) and 31 injured.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livraga_derailment

The Livraga derailment is the only railway accident to date on the Italian high speed rail network. It took place on 6 February 2020 when a high-speed train derailed at Livraga, Lombardy, Italy. Two people died and 31 were injured.

 

[Harpo]

From Gareth Dennis a Pway engineer

https://x.com/GarethDennis/status/2013228051383898494

Cause and consequences nailed eh? Who needed Spanish accident investigators?

 

[Cloud Strife]

One thing that I'm wondering about from a technical point of view: if a train does derail, do other trains on the line automatically come to a halt? It wouldn't have helped here, but I'm wondering about the general safety of high speed railways when dealing with this kind of situation where a train has derailed and potentially blocked the other track.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Gareth says great similarities to Hatfield

Partial quote

The northbound Madrid train (a red Frecciarossa 1000 operated by Iryo) passes over a rail weld, likely fractured within its heat-affected zone, that breaks under the impact of the passing train
The first 5 cars of the 8-car train pass safely over the break, but repeated impacts turn a break into a catastrophic rail failure, and the 3 rear cars of the northbound train are derailed as the rail shatters.
Whether as a result of the position of a crossover between the two tracks or just through the random dynamic behaviour as the rear portion of the train dug into sleepers and ballast, the derailed cars fouled the southbound track, striking a southbound Renfe service. -------------------------------

The Hatfield rail crash in the UK has many similar elements of the Adamuz disaster. While the trigger and mechanism of derailment were quickly clear, it took six and a half years to understand the full picture of why a rail was allowed to shatter underneath a high speed train.

https://x.com/GarethDennis/status/2013228072447741968/photo/1

 

[notverydeep]

Cause and consequences nailed eh? Who needed Spanish accident investigators?

In almost all railway accidents, the immediate cause (what happened) is quickly apparent and can be deduced by most railway professionals or even in many cases by enthusiasts, from a few clear pictures of the aftermath. The main job of investigators is far more complex - to establish the root causes - ‘why did it happen?’…

 

[liam456]

Cause and consequences nailed eh? Who needed Spanish accident investigators?

It's hardly uninformed speculation given who the speculation is from.

 

[edwin_m]

One thing that I'm wondering about from a technical point of view: if a train does derail, do other trains on the line automatically come to a halt? It wouldn't have helped here, but I'm wondering about the general safety of high speed railways when dealing with this kind of situation where a train has derailed and potentially blocked the other track.

There's not a single system that will reliably detect all derailments. Usually other trains will be stopped relatively quickly by one or more of:

• Damage to signalling showing tracks occupied, replacing signals to danger or triggering emergency stop under ETCS.
• Not sure if ETCS itself alerts the controller if a train has stopped responding to data messages.
• Loss of traction power, doesn't automatically stop the train but may cause drivers to brake.
• Driver of derailed train sending an emergency radio message (or even using the headlights to indicate an emergency).
• Route controller seeing some of the above and instructing all nearby trains to stop

Not all of these may be applicable to this route. We don't know if any of them happened, but if another train is only a few seconds away at time of derailment then a collision is unavoidable. Fortunately this is extremely rare, first time I believe on any high speed line that a derailed train has been hit by another one.

 

[DerekC]

In almost all railway accidents, the immediate cause (what happened) is quickly apparent and can be deduced by most railway professionals or even in many cases by enthusiasts, from a few clear pictures of the aftermath. The main job of investigators is far more complex - to establish the root causes - ‘why did it happen?’…

That's exactly right and it's what went wrong in the investigation of the Santiago overspeed derailment. There was an attempt to cover up the underlying causes, only frustrated by the intervention of the European safety body.

 

[Snow1964]

One thing that I'm wondering about from a technical point of view: if a train does derail, do other trains on the line automatically come to a halt? It wouldn't have helped here, but I'm wondering about the general safety of high speed railways when dealing with this kind of situation where a train has derailed and potentially blocked the other track.

If it is just encroaching into space of other line and not touching the rails then a train on other track could hit the wreckage. This has been case for decades and is why guard (or train crew) should try and protect other line. Not always time to stop other trains and some of worst accidents eg Quintinshill, Harrow, Lewisham are where another train hit the wreckage.

On track circuited routes, clips can be put on. In old days would go along line waving a red flag if a train was coming, and get to nearest signal post phone or signal box to warn of the danger, and get signals to red.

Nowadays some trains have an emergency button, or some form of emergency contact on the radio, which instantly connects to signaller, it might even advise other trains nearby with a warning message. But I am not familiar with Spanish system so can't answer how quickly the message might have got to another train or all signals set to stop.

 

[neonison]

Without speculating as to why it does appear that the rear of the northbound IRYO train derailed partially fouling the southbound track. The RENFE train then made a glancing blow on the wreckage derailing it to the right and buckling those coaches.
It’s evident that the wreckage of the RENFE train is some distance south of the IRYO one.
Sorry if this is obvious to many already but I’ve not seen any aerial shots until recently.