Yes, the stopper probably should be provided by Northern (or whatever that TOC becomes) rather than TPE but that's unlikely to change until the wires are up. When discussing the use of the current fleet, not including that service even to simply say it transfers to Northern was rather a glaring omission. I note that you kept the Huddersfield to Manchester locals with TPE, hence why it seemed that you'd simply forgotten about those seven intermediate stations.
Indeed, TPE reducing the 802s down to a fleet of 9 units for the 7 Liverpool to Newcastle diagrams and 10 going to Cross Country for Newcastle to Reading / Southampton could, perhaps with some 802s released by GWR as well, be a good move in an integrated railway, freeing up Voyagers to eliminate the HSTs. It would fit in well with the Hitachi depots at Doncaster and West London and current stabling at Heaton and eliminating some diesel running under the wires.
Surely the HSTs will be suitable until the WC 221s and/or EMR 222s become available.
Another 2 units required for Huddersfield-Leeds and 6 circuits on the current South route (Cleethorpes-Manchester).
No idea where you get 18 units from. It's a 6 hourly circuit, so 12 units. There is a unit swap at Manchester Piccadilly every day at 8pm, so 14 units are involved, but really it's only ever 12 units in service.
Nearly correct. Victoria to York may be 185s initially, as everyone signs those, but 802s is the long term plan there.There aren't any plans for 802s on Saltburn, rather it will be a mix of Mk5s and 185s.
That is certainly the direction of travel - 802s will be needed to increase the West Coast timetable back to pre Covid levels, given the awful 397 availability. But you will lose at least two extra 802s by way of ECSs between Newcastle and Edinburgh, there is just no other way to keep the fleet rotating sufficiently.
The Huddersfield locals will remain single units for the foreseeable future due to platform lengths, both en-route and at either end. Everything else will be doubles (albeit only at peak hours on some services). There is no prospect of the Cleethorpes service returning to Manchester Airport, however it is likely to be extended to Liverpool as part of MRTF. That would take an extra 2 circuits, so would become 16 units.
It would be difficult to introduce 802s on Newcastle-Reading/Southampton - the only (25kV) wired parts of the route are Newcastle-York and Didcot-Reading. 802s cannot hope to reach Voyager timings on the diesel sections, so a wholesale timetable recast would be needed. Good luck with that!
Apologies, but I had said in the post that I had not checked the number of units used on Manchester-Hull services, which in this case also includes the routing.
Okay, that is not what the wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Trains for Northern Trains states. In checking Realtime Trains for Northern trains all day today it is showing that a class 155 departed Leeds at 0501 this morning and got to Huddersfield at 0602 (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se.../0000-2359?stp=WVSC&show=all&order=wtt&toc=NT). Admittedly there seems to be the only service from Leeds and there does not seem to be a return service, which I am presuming is down to restrictions with Covid or is it a lack of stock?
It is not my listing.
You obviously did not read the excel spreadsheet that I attached earlier:
| Service | Time | Units | |
| Manchester Airport - Cleethorpes | 06:11:00 | 185104 + 185137 | |
| Manchester Picaddilly - Cleethorpes | 07:18:00 | 185130 + 185139 | |
| Cleethorpes - Manchester Piccadilly | 08:00:00 | 185120 + 185113 | |
| Manchester Picaddilly - Cleethorpes | 08:18:00 | 185113+185120 | |
| Cleethorpes - Manchester Piccadilly | 09:00:00 | 185134 + 185115 | |
| Manchester Picaddilly - Cleethorpes | 09:18:00 | 185115+185134 | |
| Cleethorpes - Manchester Piccadilly | 10:00:00 | 185133 + 185146 | |
| Manchester Picaddilly - Cleethorpes | 10:18:00 | 185146+185133 | |
| Cleethorpes - Manchester Piccadilly | 11:02:00 | 185151 | |
| Manchester Picaddilly - Cleethorpes | 11:18:00 | 185151 | |
| Cleethorpes - Manchester Piccadilly | 12:02:00 | 185114 | |
| Manchester Picaddilly - Cleethorpes | 12:18:00 | 185114 | |
| Cleethorpes - Manchester Piccadilly | 13:07:00 | 185139 | |
| Manchester Picaddilly - Cleethorpes | 13:18:00 | 185139 | |
| Cleethorpes - Manchester Piccadilly | 14:00:00 | 185130 | |
| Manchester Picaddilly - Cleethorpes | 14:18:00 | 185130 | |
| Cleethorpes - Manchester Piccadilly | 15:00:00 | 185134 + 185115 | |
| Manchester Picaddilly - Cleethorpes | 15:18:00 | 185115 + 185134 | |
| Cleethorpes - Manchester Piccadilly | 16:00:00 | 185133 + 185146 | |
| Manchester Picaddilly - Cleethorpes | 16:18:00 | 185146+185133 | |
| Cleethorpes - Manchester Piccadilly | 17:00:00 | 185120 + 185113 | |
| Manchester Picaddilly - Cleethorpes | 17:18:00 | 185113+185120 | |
| Cleethorpes - Manchester Piccadilly | 18:00:00 | 185114 + 185151 | |
| Manchester Picaddilly - Cleethorpes | 18:18:00 | 185151+185114 | |
| Cleethorpes - Manchester Piccadilly | 19:00:00 | 185137 + 185104 | |
| Manchester Picaddilly - Cleethorpes | 19:18:00 | 185104 + 185137 | |
| Cleethorpes - Manchester Piccadilly | 20:00:00 | 185130 + 185139 | |
| Manchester Picaddilly - Cleethorpes | 20:18:00 | 185102 + 185118 | |
| Cleethorpes - Manchester Piccadilly | 21:00:00 | 185134 | |
| Manchester Airport - Cleethorpes | 21:11:00 | 185108 | |
| Cleethorpes - Manchester Piccadilly | 22:08:00 | 185133 + 185146 | |
| Cleethorpes - Manchester Airport | 23:05:00 | 185120+185113 to Doncaster 185120 to Man Airport |
It's simply a one way move to get the stock into position.
That 18 units were used on one particular day doesn't mean that there are 18 unit diagrams. Unplanned set swaps happen all the time.
No, 8 circuits and 16 units - it's just under an hour's journey from Manchester to Liverpool via the CLC.
I think the point is that being constantly made is that the traincrew knowledge doesn't support this - eg 802 to Scarborough, 68 to Hull etc. You would effectively be back to the issues of 2018 around traincrew knowledge. The servicing locations don't work either.
That’s the Huddersfield to Bradford service which extends from/to Leeds at the extremes of the day to get the stock in place.
TPE run the stopping service between Leeds and Huddersfield via Dewsbury. Northern also provide some calls on longer-distance services but several 185s are diagrammed for this particular route. They can't be discounted since they are currently being used there!
As an example:
This won't happen.
I'm not sure if this applies to the 802s or not, but the Azuma fleet has a 36 hour restriction for time allowed in service away from a depot with Hitachi staff, the effect it has on LNER being that the 23:00 Kings Cross - York (and some other services) if it doesn't use a Mark 4 set has to use an 80x that's come straight from the depot, rather than one that's been in service all day. If that's the case with TPE's 802s too, presumably any unit starting or ending the day anywhere other than Craigentinny, Heaton or Doncaster Carr will only be able to complete a half day in service.
Surely that’s the 800s; the 802 contracts are entirely different.
They are clearly not in the public domain, unlike the IEP contracts, but I would imagine that, as heavy maintenance is still contracted to Hitachi, they will still have provisions to ensure units return to Hitachi depots. The fact that the TPE units can spend the night at Heaton and Edge Hill doesn't mean that there aren't provisions about getting them back to Doncaster and Craigentinny.
Those are nominally the right sort of numbers, but it won't be distributed that way. At least, not next May.
You're correct that it's nominally a 7 hour cycle.
802s are also stabled at Edge Hill, and in the pre-Covid timetable there was a unit that worked overnight services and nominally 'stabled' in Longsight Excursion Platform for a few hours. But yes, all sorts of acrobatics are needed to comply with Hitachi's requirements.
Ah, I forgot the 802s are based at Doncaster also.
The Newcastle-Readings don't go that way. They run non-stop between Birmingham and Leamington, via Tyseley.
There was some XC services that went via Coventry to be stopping off at Birmingham International. Are these services no longer running?
