TPE driver shortage

[BurtonM]

As if the Hull service wasn't already unreliable... :roll:

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Well you will have those god darn awful 170s on there!

 

[BurtonM]

All the 170s are on South TPE now (Chiltern have the Hull units), Hull is all 185s. Worse, IMO.

 

[ainsworth74]

Don't forget that we are all militant in the eyes of a few posters on here, but I wonder if those same posters would be so accepting of giving up their days off regularly to bail the company out of situation entirely of the companies own making?

Nope, not at all. I'm always happy to do a bit extra here and there for an employer but going regularly beyond what I'm supposed to do? If it's optional then my patience would run out eventually!

The silly thing is, looking at the list of cancelled services, it doesn't even look like TPE need that many extra drivers! So just pony up and hire a couple of extra at a few of the smaller depots and be done with it!!

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Yeah, but you know it's not just as simple a plopping them into the drivers seat and letting them go off with a train into the sunset.

It's at least a 8-12 months before they can do that!

 

[ainsworth74]

Yeah, but you know it's not just as simple a plopping them into the drivers seat and letting them go off with a train into the sunset.

It's at least a 8-12 months before they can do that!

I thought you just pushed the go button and then the stop button? How hard can that be?!

More seriously, it would be nice to see them starting a recruitment drive to get some drivers in post even if we have to suffer with disruption in the mean time.

Or just poach them from Northern. That used to work quite well for several TOCs

 

[455driver]

I'm always happy to do a bit extra here and there for an employer

As am I, its chasing the overtime money they 'forgot' to pay which gets my goat!

 

[northernchris]

Or just poach them from Northern. That used to work quite well for several TOCs

It's only in the past few months Northern seem to have enough drivers to deliver their timetable, last thing they need is TPE taking them back 2 years!

 

[ainsworth74]

As am I, its chasing the overtime money they 'forgot' to pay which gets my goat!

Oh dear :roll: they don't help themselves if they're doing things like that (mistake or otherwise!).

It's only in the past few months Northern seem to have enough drivers to deliver their timetable, last thing they need is TPE taking them back 2 years!

Though that wouldn't be TPE's problem would it

 

[tony6499]

This has been going on since 1996/97 when the TOCs first got sold off, why things haven't been sorted in the last 18/19 years who knows ?

 

[455driver]

Oh dear :roll: they don't help themselves if they're doing things like that (mistake or otherwise!).

They have 'forgot' more than they have remembered lately, the line they are walking is extremely thin, I live well within my means and don't need any overtime, in fact the only reason I do my booked Sundays is because it is my pocket money and Warley is nearly here!

 

[HH]

I don't know what their problem is, as I said other TOCs have managed it without issue!

Not true. As I've pointed out in other threads, it caused significant issues at Thameslink due to the nature of the service. It may cause problems at some depots for TPE.

BTW I recall looking at TPE diagrams in the past. IIRC the diagrams were more like 8 hours than 7 and they averaged 4.2 turns per week. I find it hard to believe that they went backwards from there.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I thought you just pushed the go button and then the stop button? How hard can that be?!

More seriously, it would be nice to see them starting a recruitment drive to get some drivers in post even if we have to suffer with disruption in the mean time.

Or just poach them from Northern. That used to work quite well for several TOCs

They are still doing it. XC, TPE and Virgin will be benefiting from a few of Piccadilly's finest over the next few months.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is there anything in the First TPE franchise agreement that would allow them to reduce their service provision in order to meet demands made upon them by a staff reduced working hours agreement?

 

[northwichcat]

Well you will have those god darn awful 170s on there!

All Hull services are 185s now, so they are slower and smaller than 4 car 170s, the latter doesn`t help dwell times on busy services. A lose, lose situation.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Is there anything in the First TPE franchise agreement that would allow them to reduce their service provision in order to meet demands made upon them by a staff reduced working hours agreement?

As far as I`m aware TPE are running as many services as they can with the available resources and are running replacement coaches where they are unable to provide rail services.

You may remember in 2002 FNW produced emergency timetables due to driver shortages following a rest day ban. Those didn`t include replacement buses except where the last service wasn`t included in the emergency timetable. Thing certainly aren`t as bad as that.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

In the thread about that scruffy looking fellow. There is mention about unified conditions. When ANY industry looks to a new pay deal you use your position relative to others in your sector.

With many other TOC's on a 4 day week it then makes sense that there is a level of fairness and unity across your sector that everyone is on similar conditions.

Lidl is advertising they are the first supermarket to offer the living wage to all employees. It is a reasonable supposition that all supermarket workers will push for the living wage.

There was also mention of wages on the NHS and they also use a system in which salaries are banded and ergo gives everyone a level playing field.

It is reasonable that a 4 day week has been requested.

There are many other points worth raising but no one listens anyway.

Something to note regarding your Lidl point. The higher minimum wage will become mandatory but that doesn`t mean all supermarket employees will be better off. Most currently get discounted groceries for themselves and their family, supermarkets could easily say now you`re getting the living wage we won`t be as generous with staff discounts. Or they might stop getting free tea and coffee during their shifts and have to pay for it instead.

 

[HH]

Something that nobody's mentioned, is that TPE would have to get such a major change ratified by DfT. I cannot imagine that DfT, which has let the franchise under the current arrangement, would allow it, as the winning bidder could claim that this was a Franchise Change.

 

[Carlisle]

Instead we're held to ransom by a bunch of nepotistic, narcissistic, avaristic fascists who treat the low paid everyday person like the brown stuff you find on your shoe occasionally or like serfs.

Whilst they lord it up on the backs of those who work hard.

If you think that may I be so bold as to suggest that you pack up your belongings into a shipping container and go stateside where they love your sort.

Fine,but the fact remains that despite ample opportunities to do so the British public hasn't (in recent times) voted in significant numbers for the militant political agenda some of these unions subscribe to

 

[gtr driver]

Fine,but the fact remains that despite ample opportunities to do so the British public hasn't (in recent times) voted in significant numbers for the militant political agenda some of these unions subscribe to

What makes you think most union members support a militant political agenda? They generally want the same as the rest of the British public - a decent wage and fair treatment. The railway is also an industrial environment with dangers from plant, infrastructure, excessive hours etc that just don't exist in the same way in white collar work. Without a union presence the emphasis would be on unfettered cost cutting (disguised as efficiency of course) and a less safe place for passengers as well as staff.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

We really do need a like button on this board!

All the CONservatives are a load bourgeoisie bigots, they don't care who they tread on or what they do to achieve their goal of an ever increasing money pot & champagne lifestyle and it's all at the expense of the lower paid.

Those who object to the lower paid being part of unions are just jealous of what they've achieved in the past and they're also jealous of the perks & protection that they've gained over the years for their members, something that they've never had (Ah diddums!).

The one thing that really winds them up is the concessions that railstaff have when it comes to travel and other little things. They really hate the fact that ex-BR staff are safeguarded and we get considerable perks, such as boxes as well as TOC cards & Privilege Oyster cards, FIP reduced rate cards & reduced rate international travel (USA, Australia, Canada, Africa) and little ones regarding the ferries too.

I can hear one or two people swooning as I type!

The TOC-NE employees get slightly less, but still some nice perks too. I hear grinding of teeth.

 

[ComUtoR]

The TOC-NE employees get slightly less, but still some nice perks too. I hear grinding of teeth.

Us boil in the bags have come from the outside rather than you crotchety old gits who've done 30yrs man and boy. The perks us TOC-NE's get are still very juicy and supplement our poor wages and union dues.

I don't begrudge your boxes and the BR issued pencils to fill them in. I know the Unions recently failed in their attempt to regain free travel for all but I do wonder if free travel could be used as a sweetener in future pay deals. I rarely use my ATOC priv rate so it makes no bones to me but I know some would jump at the chance for free travel again.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

The one's who begrudge railstaff having these perks are as I said the bourgeoisie bigots of the Tory party, who'd begrudge any lowlife as they'd like to think of us & manual workers any sort of perk, whilst they get all of them.

 

[HH]

Need some salt and vinegar?

 

[Carlisle]

The one's who begrudge railstaff having these perks are as I said the bourgeoisie bigots of the Tory party, who'd begrudge any lowlife as they'd like to think of us & manual workers any sort of perk, whilst they get all of them.

I'm sure a far better scheme of free travel for all post BR rail staff could have been devised years ago , but for various reasons probably better understood by others on here the unions haven't made it one of their top priorities to fight for , so it appears to keep getting kicked into the long grass by all sides

 

[A-driver]

I'm sure a far better scheme of free travel for all post BR rail staff could have been devised years ago , but for various reasons probably better understood by others on here the unions haven't made it one of their top priorities to fight for , so it appears to keep getting kicked into the long grass by all sides

ASLEF have made it a fairly high priority goal. The problem is practicality of negotiating such a thing. So many different people need to be involved and in agreement. ATOC won't meet with the unions as they are nothing to do with them of their members so it's a case of negotiating with EVER TOC at once, almost impossible.

 

[RM-Taylor]

Is this the reason last Wednesday (30th September) pretty much all services from Cleethorpes terminated at Sheffield, and some even at Doncaster before heading back to Cleethorpes?

 

[Starmill]

The typical customer, I think, fails to understand the intricacies of 'RDW Agreement' is. I've read TPE's page, and this thread and I'm still not clear what the root cause of the problem is. Disagreements? Not enough drivers? Not enough cash? We have however all taken note of the prices they like to charge. £20 for a single now from Manchester to Leeds? Ah - but the train is cancelled because you can't provide a driver. And we are going to be expected to believe there isn't enough money to pay for the required number!

 

[HH]

The typical customer, I think, fails to understand the intricacies of 'RDW Agreement' is. I've read TPE's page, and this thread and I'm still not clear what the root cause of the problem is. Disagreements? Not enough drivers? Not enough cash? We have however all taken note of the prices they like to charge. £20 for a single now from Manchester to Leeds? Ah - but the train is cancelled because you can't provide a driver. And we are going to be expected to believe there isn't enough money to pay for the required number!

I won't sidetrack this by pointing out all the wrong assumptions behind your thought that a £20 fare necessarily means that TPE is making piles of money; I'll just point out that all the expensive fares are regulated by DfT and that aside from costs (which were around 90% of revenue last I looked) TPE has to pay the DfT a premium.

Then there's your assumption that if they want extra drivers all they have to do is snap their fingers and hey presto! Driver recruitment is a long and costly process, because drivers have to be tested thoroughly. They are tested because driver training is an even longer and even costlier process and you want to minimise failures. If they have a driver shortage today, then it would be the best part of two years before they might cover that gap.

I'm not saying that they're blameless; but I've not seen enough information to make a call one way or the other.

 

[Starmill]

I won't sidetrack this by pointing out all the wrong assumptions behind your thought that a £20 fare necessarily means that TPE is making piles of money; I'll just point out that all the expensive fares are regulated by DfT and that aside from costs (which were around 90% of revenue last I looked) TPE has to pay the DfT a premium.

I appreciate your comments and have an excellent understanding of price elasticity thanks.

At no point did I accuse them of 'making piles of money' - what I accused them of was being inefficient (and providing their customers with what they will perceive as bad value for money - which has it's own effects on long-term demand). There is rather a difference.

Then there's your assumption that if they want extra drivers all they have to do is snap their fingers and hey presto! Driver recruitment is a long and costly process, because drivers have to be tested thoroughly. They are tested because driver training is an even longer and even costlier process and you want to minimise failures. If they have a driver shortage today, then it would be the best part of two years before they might cover that gap.

Yes - and they know that, don't they? Not as if they might be expected to ensure that industrial relations remain such that any such disruption is going to be minimised. DO they have a driver shortage? A question nobody seems able to answer.

Even giving by implication to your customers that not having the staff to cover shifts on a regular basis is somehow outside of your control will go down very poorly indeed in any industry - and quite rightly too.

 

[455driver]

They are hardly going to admit they are short of drivers are they, I mean can you see them telling the press-

"Sorry there are cancellations but we have been running understaffed for years to save a few quid but we have now p-ssed the drivers off too much they are no longer willing to work their days off to bale us out of the sh-t"

are they!

Its much better to say the drivers are being militant/uncooperative so the company can save face isn't it, of course the fact they are actually saying its the drivers fault will only serve to p-ss the drivers off even more and so make them even less willing to work their days off seems to have passed them by. :roll:

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

What makes you think most union members support a militant political agenda?

Would it only be those in the top union jobs who seem to display such support?