TPE driver shortage

[djjawuk]

Apologies if this has already been posted - I've done a search and can't see it.

Numerous TPE cancellations today due to lack of driver, especially Piccadilly to Hull services.

TPE have posted an explanation - it looks like the cancellations could continue indefinitely?

http://www.tpexpress.co.uk/about-us/news-blog/news/2015/09/rest-day-working-explained/

What is a 'Rest Day Working Agreement'?

Before we explain the current issue we're facing, it's important to explain what a 'rest day working agreement' is. In a nutshell, a ‘rest day working agreement’ is an opportunity for train drivers to increase their salary by working overtime. Drivers can do this by covering services that are unstaffed - these services might be unstaffed due to any number of reasons, many of which are often sudden or happen with short-notice. Choosing to work on a rest day is a completely voluntary choice for a driver. Indeed, these agreements are common within the rail industry and we have used these for a number of years.

So What's the Issue?

Two years ago, the Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen(ASLEF), the train driver union, withdrew its rest day working agreement over a dispute regarding the introduction of a four-day working week for drivers.

It was agreed that an independent person would look into the feasibility of introducing a four-day working week for drivers, provided there was no impact on resource costs to our business - a rest day working agreement was reintroduced while this review was underway.

The review has now finished and concluded that a four-day week cannot be implemented without significant resource costs to our business.

Unfortunately, ASLEF’s Executive Committee has refused to accept the conclusions of this review and have now withdrawn rest day working and will not enter any further discussions on the matter.

They have walked away from a long-term agreement that was due to expire in October 2016 and at this stage, we do not expect to regain this before the end of our franchise.

A Statement From Our Operations Director

Paul Watson, Operations Director at First TransPennine Express, said: “We sincerely apologise for any inconvenience caused to customers and fully appreciate the frustration felt at service disruptions caused because of short term driver shortages. While we do have enough drivers to run our normal timetable, there are occasions where we rely on drivers to work on their rest days, for example, to cover drivers who are restricted from driving duties on medical grounds.

“This is achieved through what is known as a 'voluntary rest day working agreement’ with the drivers. Unfortunately, the drivers’ union, ASLEF, has now ceased this agreement without notice which means we’re experiencing challenges in covering some services. Please be assured we’re doing everything we can to keep disruption to a minimum and to make sure customers are provided with travel advice in advance of their journeys.”

 

[thealexweb]

ASLEF wanted a four day week? Considering a driver's salary I am lost for words.

 

[185143]

They say 'we do' to 'why don't you employ enough drivers'.

You do employ enough drivers normally but if they won't work rest days and services are regularly going to be cancelled, then you clearly don't have enough drivers!

An unsurprising end to an incompetent franchise IMHO!

 

[Lincoln]

ASLEF wanted a four day week? Considering a driver's salary I am lost for words.

In fairness, staff who work for those companies that do have a 4 day week put in longer days to get the weekly hours in.

For instance if you work a 40 hour week over 5 days then each day is averaged at 8 hours; whereas if this was worked across 4 days then each day would be an average of 10 hours.

I for one would rather work the extra couple of hours as I am already there, but this is an issue which can cause a lot of debate - and that is just between the staff!

 

[HarleyDavidson]

ASLEF wanted a four day week? Considering a driver's salary I am lost for words.

It's none of your business what a driver earns either pre-tax or after tax..

Do you know what the situation is on TPE regarding the use of rest day working or if there's a dispute on?

If there was a rest day working agreement in place, has it expired? In which case drivers may not be working rest days and the way management carry on these days where they try & crucify you for the slightest thing are you going to go against the union, whose assistance maybe required should a driver be hauled over the coals for something trivial.

 

[thealexweb]

In fairness, staff who work for those companies that do have a 4 day week put in longer days to get the weekly hours in.

For instance if you work a 40 hour week over 5 days then each day is averaged at 8 hours; whereas if this was worked across 4 days then each day would be an average of 10 hours.

I for one would rather work the extra couple of hours as I am already there, but this is an issue which can cause a lot of debate - and that is just between the staff!

More longer days was not directly mentioned. I originally thought the union may be seeking a French-style 35 hour week.
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It's none of your business what a driver earns either pre-tax or after tax..

When staffing costs make up 25% of the industry costs I am afraid it is very much in the passenger's interest to know how much staff are being paid.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/83871.aspx

 

[HarleyDavidson]

More longer days was not directly mentioned. I originally thought the union may be seeking a French-style 35 hour week.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


When staffing costs make up 25% of the industry costs I am afraid it is very much in the passenger's interest to know how much staff are being paid.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/83871.aspx

Care to tell me what you earn? As someone who may or may not transport you from one place to another, it's in my and everyone else's interest.

No? Don't like it?

Personally I think most pen pushers are overpaid for what they do! Pay should be done on the commensurate level of responsibility, not the so called level of talent.

 

[thealexweb]

Care to tell me what you earn? As someone who may or may not transport you from one place to another, it's in my and everyone else's interest.

No? Don't like it?

Personally I think most pen pushers are overpaid for what they do! Pay should be done on the commensurate level of responsibility, not the so called level of talent.

I too work for a public service, the NHS. The NHS is very open about what it pays its staff. Full pay details available here (for me see Band 5, Point 17 http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/working-in-the-nhs/pay-and-benefits/agenda-for-change-pay-rates/).

 

[northwichcat]

It's none of your business what a driver earns either pre-tax or after tax..

ASLEF are happy to tell everyone TPE drivers earn £47,439 per annum and that they have perks like a company pension and free travel on TPE services, which is more than EMT, Northern or Merseyrail.

DfT and the operator themselves may make total salary costs for a TOC public but you've got ASLEF to thank for telling everyone the above. If you're unhappy about that information being made public maybe you should reconsider paying a subscription to ASLEF?

 

[455driver]

I struggle to understand why TPE cant/wont introduce a 4 day week, a lot of other TOCs have managed it without any fuss!

More smoke and mirrors from Farce group I think!

 

[northwichcat]

I too work for a public service, the NHS. The NHS is very open about what it pays its staff. Full pay details available here (for me see Band 5, Point 17 http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/working-in-the-nhs/pay-and-benefits/agenda-for-change-pay-rates/).

My ex works for the NHS in a hospital. The hospital being open 24 hours a day 7 days a week and staff hours varying from week to week didn't exactly make it easy to meet up for dates.

 

[455driver]

ASLEF wanted a four day week? Considering a driver's salary I am lost for words.

If you actually look at what is proposed, ASLEF want the drivers to work the same number of hours but over 4 days instead of 5, the drivers would still be doing the same number of hours per week/year as they do now. but their working day would be longer than it is now.
eg-
40 hours over 5 days = 8 hour day
40 hours over 4 days =10 hour day

or
35 hours over 5 days = 7 hour day
35 hours over 4 days = 8 hour 45 min day.

It isn't the case that ASLEF want to reduce the working week from a 40 hours/5 day week to a 32 hour/4 day week!

 

[ainsworth74]

If you actually look at what is proposed, ASLEF want the drivers to work the same number of hours but over 4 days instead of 5, the drivers would still be doing the same number of hours per week/year as they do now. but their working day would be longer than it is now.
eg-
40 hours over 5 days = 8 hour day
40 hours over 4 days =10 hour day

or
35 hours over 5 days = 7 hour day
35 hours over 4 days = 8 hour 45 min day.

It isn't the casde that ASLEF want to reduce the working week from a 40 hours/5 day week to a 32 hour/4 day week!

I think I'd rather do the eight hour day than a ten hour day. Especially considering the levels of concentration involved in train driving. So why are ASLEF proposing this? Or am I missing something?

 

[455driver]

I think I'd rather do the eight hour day than a ten hour day. Especially considering the levels of concentration involved in train driving. So why are ASLEF proposing this? Or am I missing something?

Most TOC drivers are on less than 40 hours a week (we are on 35) so the reduction to a 4 day week doesn't increase the working day to much, in fact working a 35 hour week over 5 days would be silly and involve too much commuting etc.

 

[ainsworth74]

Ah I can see why doing eight hours forty-five for four days could hold quite an attraction compared to seven hours over five (I'd sign up for a week like that). Any reason for the TOC to be opposed? I assume it makes their diagramming harder because they're still getting the same hours out of their drivers?

 

[455driver]

Ah I can see why doing eight hours forty-five for four days could hold quite an attraction compared to seven hours over five (I'd sign up for a week like that). Any reason for the TOC to be opposed? I assume it makes their diagramming harder because they're still getting the same hours out of their drivers?

I don't know what their problem is, as I said other TOCs have managed it without issue!

 

[Solent&Wessex]

TPE said they would accept the 4 day week (or 156 Rest Days as it is being called), provided it did not cost them any money. Obviously if drivers are working the same hours over less days then on each individual day you are going to have less drivers in work. Whilst this won't impact on the timetabled service, as diagrams can be written which ensures that each service is covered, it will impact on the number of spare drivers you have each day. TPE, or to be precise the independent person agreed to by both Aslef and TPE, has said that to retain the same % spare cover each day would require them to employ more drivers, which would cost them money, and is not acceptable.

Furthermore, it does have problems at some of the smaller out of the way depots with low headcounts in the first place, where the only work is out and back to at least one place, and it isn't quite so simple to just increase each diagram by an hour or so, as you can't actually do any work in that hour or so. One of the solutions proposed by Aslef was an increase in crew changes at places where it doesn't normally occur, but TPE said this posed an increased performance risk and was unacceptable.

For info, most of the issues with the driver shortages are at the smaller depots now such as Hull or Cleethorpes. There were something like 15 spare drivers across the company yesterday, but none in the right time or place or with the right route knowledge to cover the uncovered turns at the smaller end of route depots.

 

[A-driver]

ASLEF wanted a four day week? Considering a driver's salary I am lost for words.

Ah that old rubbish coming out again. "You are well paid so have no right to try and better your working conditions". The race to the bottom.

What if all businesses thought your way?! Tesco saying 'we are making more money than asda so let's stop trying to better our profits'!

Comments about drivers pay like yours are only ever based on jealousy. Rather than post silly comments like that why not concentrate on improving your own pay and conditions like the train drivers here are...

 

[455driver]

Rather than post silly comments like that why not concentrate on improving your own pay and conditions like the train drivers here are...

Because its easier just to moan about people who do stand up for themselves!

 

[387star]

Whilst freight men are out of work? I agree there should be more drivers as it sounds like over reliance on rest days

 

[notadriver]

I too work for a public service, the NHS. The NHS is very open about what it pays its staff. Full pay details available here (for me see Band 5, Point 17 http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/working-in-the-nhs/pay-and-benefits/agenda-for-change-pay-rates/).

Sounds like you are jealous because you are currently on less than half of a TPE's driver salary.

 

[ainsworth74]

Whilst freight men are out of work? I agree there should be more drivers as it sounds like over reliance on rest days

It does rather sounds like it doesn't it? I mean they're trying to dress it up as just using rest days to cover unexpected absences from work (due to illness and what have you) but going off of Raildar for today TPE had eleven cancellations of which eight were due to issues with the driver (it doesn't actually specify what but it would seem reasonable to assume non-availability). That seems like rather a lot and rather a high percentage if they actually had enough drivers.

 

[thealexweb]

Sounds like you are jealous because you are currently on less than half of a TPE's driver salary.

Ah that old rubbish coming out again. "You are well paid so have no right to try and better your working conditions". The race to the bottom.

What if all businesses thought your way?! Tesco saying 'we are making more money than asda so let's stop trying to better our profits'!

Comments about drivers pay like yours are only ever based on jealousy. Rather than post silly comments like that why not concentrate on improving your own pay and conditions like the train drivers here are...

I hope the mods forgive us for going ever further off-topic.

Would it be great if I earned more? Yes of course. But that is not why I decided to join the NHS. I chose my career primarily because I want to help people. If I was 'jealous' and 'wanted to get rich quick' or 'have the cushy lifestyle' I would obviously have chosen a better paying sector. As my employer is entirely funded by taxpayers I am aware that my pay and conditions have to be realistic.

 

[A-driver]

I hope the mods forgive us for going ever further off-topic.

Would it be great if I earned more? Yes of course. But that is not why I decided to join the NHS. I chose my career primarily because I want to help people. If I was 'jealous' and 'wanted to get rich quick' or 'have the cushy lifestyle' I would obviously have chosen a better paying sector. As my employer is entirely funded by taxpayers I am aware that my pay and conditions have to be realistic.

So stop complaining about train drivers pay then and stop making silly snide remarks. Drivers pay is realistic. If it wasn't then we wouldn't earn it. And don't start suggesting that our pay is the reason your fares are so high-it most definately isn't.

And as I say, this is about TPX drivers trying to negotiate a better deal for themselves. Just because they already earn a fairly decent wage it dosnt mean they shouldn't be seeking to make further improvements.

I'm very interested to know what your salary cut off point would be where you believe a workforce should just accept they have it good enough and therefore shouldn't be allowed to better their employment conditions. 20k? 30k? 40k? Although I rather suspect that you believe the cut off is anyone earning a penny more than you do...

 

[cuccir]

Anyone who thinks that there is any logical relationship between effort, skill, qualifications and talent across pay in different industries is a deluded. Beyond a very weak correlation, the whole thing, frankly, is circumstantial - what I'd call "path dependency" if I was speaking academically.

Back to the point - it shouldn't be beyond the wit of any organization to have enough staff to carry out its operations. The fault, whether it's in recruitment, personnel management, training, or somewhere else, is one that lies in strategic management not with the service delivering employees!

 

[northwichcat]

in fact working a 35 hour week over 5 days would be silly and involve too much commuting etc.

A lot of people work 37.5 hour weeks over 5 days. 35 hours is equivalent to the traditional 9 to 5 with a 1 hour lunch.
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Back to the point - it shouldn't be beyond the wit of any organization to have enough staff to carry out its operations. The fault, whether it's in recruitment, personnel management, training, or somewhere else, is one that lies in strategic management not with the service delivering employees!

Problem is TOCs are businesses. A business needs to offer competitive prices and provide a return on investment to shareholders. It seems like most businesses TOCs don't employ additional full time staff if it's probable the new staff would spend lots of time sitting around waiting for some work to do. However, if they then fail to deliver their advertised product/service due to staff not being willing to work overtime the business changes it's mind about employing more staff.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

For info, today there are / were 35 spare drivers across the TPE network, at various times and various depots. Indeed there was a spare driver at Hull this morning.

Didn't stop 2 Hull duties going uncovered this afternoon with the relevant cancellations.

 

[Starmill]

The last train from Leeds to Hull was cancelled last night and ran by a bus.

I think the unit was stuck on the last train from Hull to Manchester at Leeds, much to the surprise of the driver and guard when they arrived!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Does the franchise allow a dimination of service provision in situations such as this? Perhaps no trains should run on Wednesdays and Saturdays.

 

[Bungle965]

While waiting at Piccadilly for my train I saw that the Hull train had been cancelled presumably because of the driver shortages the unit sat in the platform until the following service arrived (about 10 minutes late). Que what looked to be a massive faf where the driver and the conductor did not quite know what to do with the unit. I watched it go out about 10 minutes later with one set looking pretty full. And the other locked out of use with lights off.
Hopefully this situation can get solved quickly.
Sam