It depends on your view of what constitutes 'plastic tack'. Of course newer stock uses a higher proportion of plastics than you might find in your classic Mk3, but that in itself doesn't have to be a bad thing if the plastics are high enough quality and put together decently.
I think the interior space in the Pendolino is pretty inefficiently designed, particularly with regards to luggage space. I think they could have done much better with what they had to work with. Having said that, I think the general ambience and 'feel' of the coaches is pretty nice. Not as nice as a German ICE or Swiss ICN, but still decent enough. I'd still rather be on a Pendolino than a tired Mk3. I find them bright, modern and appealing, if a little cramped at times.
I've never been on a refurbished FGW Mk3, but I have been on XC a few times; crap legroom aside, that is the sort of standard Virgin should have aspired to with their refurb, but it is nowhere near. I'd still rather be on a Pendolino than the Pretendolino, just as I'd rather be on a Meridian than a tired, half-arsed-refurbished EMT Mk3.
(And as a final note... when you compare photos of Grayrigg to Ladbroke Grove and Ufton Nervet, comfort doesn't even come into it - the Pendolino design wins hands down.)
Sorry for the thread drift by the way.
I think that's a fair enough series of comments - the Mk3 design is approaching 40 years old, and the Pretendolino rake has
never had the complete refurbishment that those belonging to XC, EC, and FGW have, so it's perhaps not surprising that it's looking rather tired. I personally prefer travelling on the Pretendolino to the Pendolino. I do value the feeling of space quite highly, more highly, I am happy to admit, than the vast majority of passengers, who are likely to look at the tatty vestibules and toilets of the Pretendolino and not be impressed (though at least they don't smell!
).
However, I stand my ground by saying I feel that the basic design of the Mk3 coach, in terms of passenger ambience, is head and shoulders above the Pendolino and Voyager design. The only modern trains in the UK that I feel come close are the Adelantes and the 444s, which to me prove that it is possible to make a train feel light and airy today - what's on the front (or not!) is irrelevant here.
Can I join this exclusive club?
The Mk3s are the Queen Mother of coaches; there can be no criticism from the vast majority of enthusiasts, it'd be funny if they weren't so serious
The Mk3 is an amazing design, but it is undoubtedly getting old. However, the fact remains that given a full refurbishment it offers a more pleasant ambience than many modern trains - in particular, the Class 390 (as the Passenger Focus survey proved).The fact that a 35 year old vehicle type can beat what is supposed to be the most sophisticated new intercity train in the country when it comes to offering passengers a pleasant journey is, I think, quite depressing - the 390 should be a lot better than it is.
I'm not saying the Mk3 doesn't have its flaws - it certainly does (cramped toilets, noisy vestibules, irritating vestibule doors, 'slam' as it passes another train at speed - to name but a few), but that detract from the fact that it's a superb design. No, they're not perfect, but considering their age they
should be outclassed by every intercity train built since privatisation, and the Passenger Focus survey last year proved that this was far from the case. That either means that the new trains - particularly the 390s - aren't very good, or that the Mk3 design is exceptional.
I very much hope the IEP will take us to a whole new level in terms of refinement and comfort - that is what we should be striving for. There shouldn't even
be a debate as to which is more pleasant to travel on.
