Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[physics34]

Of course it was but the austerity introduced by Cameron's government has defined how these trains are built.

If you voted for that you cannot then moan about softer seats.

I may be wromg but i believe the spec for these trains goes back to something like 2008

 

[Skimble19]

Platform staff need to realise that their job isn’t to drive the train and respect the drivers choice as to why he’s not going to be taking that particular stop order.

Unfortunately if he followed it to the letter and something went wrong, it wouldn’t be the platform staff up in the office for a meeting without tea and biscuits.

To be fair, when they've had some (luckily very, very few!) drivers refusing stop orders just because the extra stops are already advertised on the CIS by the ROC before they've been given the bit of paper it's possible tensions may get a bit strained at some locations between them.. luckily the drivers doing that are very few and far between and the vast majority are all being extremely helpful and assisting as much as they safely can. For example the majority of them are only refusing stop orders when their trains are short formed, or if the train is full which is totally understandable.

As a side note, anyone on here planning on travelling tomorrow on TL/GN please be aware there is an issue with the online journey planners and apps for journeys tomorrow. Numerous trains are showing which will not be running. A fix is being worked on by National Rail Enquiries and it's hoped this can be achieved before the morning but it's not guaranteed.

If you are travelling the staff at stations have the Carriage Working Notices which are accurate so will be able to help.

 

[thedbdiboy]

To be pedant, the role of Station Master was lost when BR got privatised and replaced with the role of Station Manager.

Er, if you're going to be pedantic BR were calling them Station Managers well before privatisation. I was one nigh on 30 years ago

 

[bramling]

I may be wromg but i believe the spec for these trains goes back to something like 2008

This is why it’s so hard to pin blame and accountability on the Shambleslink Programme - it’s been going on for *so* long.

 

[HH]

https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/rst/conditions-of-issue-and-use.html#s2

He should have given up his seat. I'm not sure if he gets any exemption or some special ticket.

Under TOC rules he should give up his seat if a paying first class passenger gets on and there are no free seats. That's not the case here. He'll have a staff pass.

Of course, using common sense, he would have found a way to avoid this picture being taken. I'm not quite sure what "Head of Operations" means - do GTR not have an Ops Director? If not, then it means this guy is the man in charge of the monumental cock-up over the May Timetable, which makes his lapse even more stupid.

 

[Hadders]

I used to , in BR days ,complain that the "wonks" at Derby never knew what it was like to travel in a 150 or a 317 say (look at some of those classic posed shots of RTC check suited blokes in a train) , however the 700 - technical great though it is , is a new low for seating and legroom. Compare a S6 or a Met line unit.

Quite so. And to think we've had all this baloney from certain cheerleaders of the 700 design about austerity, excess weight of better seats and tables affecting the efficiency of the train, fire regulations through the core etc etc.

Frankly whoever designed the interior got it dreadfully wrong and the poor passengers will end up suffering the consequences for over 30 years. They should never be allowed anywhere near a train design again and the managers who signed it off should be holding their heads in shame.

Sadly (and it pains me to say it) it's just typical of the Shambleslink Programme which promised so much and delivered so little.

 

[Bedpan]

To be pedant, the role of Station Master was lost when BR got privatised and replaced with the role of Station Manager.

To be even more pedantic, the roles of Station Manager/Area Manager etc predated privatisation by about 25 years.

 

[Bedpan]

Quite so. And to think we've had all this baloney from certain cheerleaders of the 700 design about austerity, excess weight of better seats and tables affecting the efficiency of the train, fire regulations through the core etc etc.

Frankly whoever designed the interior got it dreadfully wrong and the poor passengers will end up suffering the consequences for over 30 years. They should never be allowed anywhere near a train design again and the managers who signed it off should be holding their heads in shame.

Sadly (and it pains me to say it) it's just typical of the Shambleslink Programme which promised so much and delivered so little.

My recollection is that First Capital Connect were consulted over the interior design of the Un-Desiro-bles and that we can blame them for the lack or seat width/legroom/wi-fi/armrests/tables etc and maybe also the concrete seats.

 

[BRX]

Most engineering and design is a trade-off, and it’s not unreasonable to suggest that this trade-off has gone too far in one direction. In any case the capacity reduction is a little overstated, how did we manage all those years with 317s, 319s etc - often four cars only?!

I was responding to your suggestion that the whole train be set up with the seating arrangement currently used in the first class portions.
Capacity wise we didn't manage with the 319s. At my local station you sometimes physically could not board the train in the morning peak. When they started to be replaced by the 700s things improved quite a lot.
Personally I find the 700s a big improvement on the 319s and usually I prefer older trains (I think the IEPs are fairly awful and would always prefer an HST). They feel more spacious, and less claustrophobic when they are busy and a lot of people are standing. I think the interiors are quite well designed, given the brief. The right trade offs were made.
That said I mostly use them on short local journeys. I don't think they are so well suited to longer journeys.

 

[Failed Unit]

We have many threads discussing how poor the interiors are on the 700s. Shall we not re-run it on here.

Keeping it semi on topic. When you don’t schedule enough trains you leave people on the platform no matter what. The 0802 WGC - London kings cross is a good example of this people often can’t board south of potters bar. This is a particularly bad problem if the reason for this is because the proceeding Moorgate was cancelled.

First day of new timetable today. 18% of outers so far on time. GTR start as they mean to go on!

 

[Kanrakuq]

Four of the next seven trains through Hitchin are cancelled. This is the “new timetable?” It’s already fallen apart after three hours.

 

[Failed Unit]

Four of the next seven trains through Hitchin are cancelled. This is the “new timetable?” It’s already fallen apart after three hours.

Be interesting to see who they blame on this one. We all know it is never GTRs fault....

 

[Sebastian O]

Four of the next seven trains through Hitchin are cancelled. This is the “new timetable?” It’s already fallen apart after three hours.

As discussed further up the thread and to prevent any further hysteria about things ‘falling apart’ - today is the switch over so will have residual impact possibly until Tuesday.

Let’s give them a chance shall we, rather than judging it as a failure a mere nine hours into the day?

 

[OwenB]

I've just taken a look at the Sat timetable, with the new football season approaching. 1tph HAT-SVG and back again. Down from 2tph.

What is this new timetable actually supposed to deliver for passengers? When will this get back to pre-20th May levels of service, let alone all the added capacity we were supposed to see?

We've been utterly shafted by the poor execution of a half-arsed project from what I can see as a layman.

 

[Kanrakuq]

As discussed further up the thread and to prevent any further hysteria about things ‘falling apart’ - today is the switch over so will have residual impact possibly until Tuesday.

Let’s give them a chance shall we, rather than judging it as a failure a mere nine hours into the day?

They advertise brand new experience from July the 15th, I judge from July the 15th.

 

[ComUtoR]

What is this new timetable actually supposed to deliver for passengers?

Consistency and reliability...

They advertise brand new experience from July the 15th, I judge from July the 15th.

Agreed.

 

[Failed Unit]

As discussed further up the thread and to prevent any further hysteria about things ‘falling apart’ - today is the switch over so will have residual impact possibly until Tuesday.

Let’s give them a chance shall we, rather than judging it as a failure a mere nine hours into the day?

They deserve a kicking.

The standard response to everything for the past 3 weeks was that a new timetable would be in place on the 15th July matching resources to the timetable.

Yes other insiders have said on this forum that it isn’t going to work until Tuesday (if it ever works) but this isn’t the message GTR have given the public. That message is everything will be perfect from today.

They have yet again planned a timetable they can’t resource? Surely that is not acceptable. This timetable is hardly demanding. For my station 1 outer and 1 inner per hour. This compares to 4 inners on the published timetable. (As in the railplan 2020 plan) If they can’t deliver this why didn’t they try 1 train every 2 hours.

This company treats passenger with contempt and lies to them. If they advertise a seriously reduced timetable why should we not complain when they fail to deliver it? They advertised it not us. Just like they told us things would be perfect from today. If they meant the 17th why didn’t they say so? Instead they chose to lie and make promises that insiders on this forum know they can’t keep. Why is this? Why didn’t they just say July 17th?

 

[AM9]

... If it succeeds then we get a reliable service but keep GTR. If it fails we have a rubbish service but hopefully get rid of GTR. It is a heads I win tails you lose situation.

This sums up the hatred of some posters here. It's not clear whether they want to see a better train service or see a particular TOC punished. The two are neither mutually exclusive or dependent.

 

[Hadders]

This sums up the hatred of some posters here. It's not clear whether they want to see a better train service or see a particular TOC punished. The two are neither mutually exclusive or dependent.

Passengers want a reliable train service.

The company currently running it has a terrible track record of delivering this. It is totally understandable that passengers don't believe a word of what the company say (for example it will be reliable from the 15th when the interim timetable starts yet there are multiple cancellations today).

Wanting the company replaced is understandable given the shambles.

 

[Failed Unit]

This sums up the hatred of some posters here. It's not clear whether they want to see a better train service or see a particular TOC punished. The two are neither mutually exclusive or dependent.

GTR have failed with everything they have promised hence why I want them out.

My dislike for them has come with the performance of the franchise. The years of driver shortages, declining standards and lies and lack of admission they have done anything wrong. Surely you don’t believe this is all down to network rail. Surely you don’t think the lie they told today was acceptable? They haven’t delivered what they promised today (as usual and as expected). GTR won’t get punishment because of the bribe they paid DFT until September. Good business sense that I hope sees some heads roll in the government.

But for me the final straw is when they started lying to passengers. I can’t see how we will get a better service under GTR. Perhaps you will enlighten me. But mine and other passengers views of the GTR management are by experience. I want a better train service. With GTR not making profits out of their current poor performance. They are currently getting rewarded for failure.

Have they ever given a sincere apology? I don’t remember one. They normally apologise and deflect the blame onto someone else. Ie not an apology. The contempt they show passengers is unacceptable. Passengers are an inconvenience to them. If they were genuinely sorry and admitted their failings again i May have a different view of them.

I know you have stated you don’t commute any more. But when you need to leave home 1 hour earlier than you used to to get to work at the same time or when you previously had 8 trains per hour into London and sometimes you only get 1 you will be unhappy. Let’s say this stabilises the service. This is still a long way below the May 2018 timetable and in fact below the May 2017 timetable. GTR won’t say if / when they will be able to deliver they May 2018 timetable. That is before we even think about rail plan 2020. Will it ever happen? So let’s say the reduced timetable works next week. When the company running the franchise doesn’t know when we will get back to 2017 levels of service doesn’t really inspire confidence they are capable of delivering any kind of improvement. If next week is classed as a success we have really let our standards slip. Delivery of the full timetable should be the definition of success. Are GTR capable?

 

[MikeWM]

They advertise brand new experience from July the 15th, I judge from July the 15th.

Me too. On what planet is one stopping train a hour between Cambridge and London remotely acceptable? Yet again, GA are having to fill in for GNs uselessness. I’d hope most of the pax on the full-and-standing 1032 from Cambridge to Liverpool Street had GA-only tickets so GN didn’t get a penny from them - but then with the crazy setup we have, there is no use even wishing that.

Edit : they’ve just announced they don’t have a train to even run the single stopper that is supposed to run this hour!!! What an absolute disgrace.

 

[michaelspencer]

My wife is on the 09.54 from Cambridge, it was full & standing at Stevenage, apparently “100’s” waiting to get on at Hatfield!!

 

[Hadders]

The incompetence is breathtaking. I am at my local station waiting for a train to London.

The interim timetable says there should be a service at 1204.
The departure boards make no mention of a 1204 service.
The timetables displayed in the ticket office and on the platforms are the 20th May version. I realise they might not have new ones to display yet but as a minimum put a note on about the interim timetable.

Unfortunately it’s just another typical day from GTR. I dread to think what my commute tomorrow will be like.

 

[Failed Unit]

Typical example of the contempt GTR show passengers.

From Twitter.

Apologies we are running services on the available stock we have. We apologise for the discomfort ^NN

I know the twitter team tweet what they are told. But the management giving them blatant lies like this? Then people like on this thread still think they are doing a good job. I restate it was them that stated the 15th July was the first place. Not the poor suffering passengers. They set themselves the target they will fail on today.

 

[OwenB]

Typical example of the contempt GTR show passengers.

From Twitter.

In fairness, could the truth be that the trains are being moved for tomorrow or that they're largely all in place? Just playing devil's advocate.

 

[jon0844]

As said before, there was an issue with trains showing that aren't in the new timetable for today. This is being worked on to have those cancelled trains removed, as they're showing up on National Rail apps (and others) and making people attempt to get trains that were never booked to run today. Annoys passengers and makes the company look (even more) incompetent.

Today is going to be a mess. Drivers didn't volunteer for this Sunday ages ago because they had no idea who would be in the final, but took a gamble. They can't now just say they'll work after all so the service today is going to be poor. Sunday's usually are and it's funny that some people say the new timetable is a mess and trains were fine before (on a Sunday, they've never been fine even if you have better days than others depending on the time of year).

I don't know why timetables always have to change on a Sunday, but I guess it was today or next Sunday and I doubt another working week of uncertainty would be preferable to just writing today off and hoping for improvements from Monday onwards.

 

[MML]

BBC Radio news was reporting the start of the interim timetable today. GTR spin doctors had sold them the line of Network Rail being predominantly responsible due to late approval of the 20th May timetable. And the new timetable would prioritise peak hour services over off-peak. Other services would only be re-introduced once the network had chance to stabilise.

Lack of trained drivers was not mentioned once. GTR and their propaganda department are lying b@stards.

The trains have been delivered and are performing well, apart from passenger dis-satisfaction with the interior fitments as can be seen from the Class 700 rolling stock thread.
Network rail have completed the infrastructure work with new platforms at London Bridge, and various remodelling south of the station.
It is GTR who have either not recruited enough drivers, trained the drivers, or provided sufficient route knowledge in advance to permit operation of the planned timetable. It's not the drivers fault, it's not the customer services staff who are at fault, it is GTR operational and senior management who have failed to deliver and their PR department who spin a line of untruths to staff and customers alike.
I hope they are stripped of their overpaid jobs as soon as possible.

 

[Failed Unit]

As said before, there was an issue with trains showing that aren't in the new timetable for today. This is being worked on to have those cancelled trains removed, as they're showing up on National Rail apps (and others) and making people attempt to get trains that were never booked to run today. Annoys passengers and makes the company look (even more) incompetent.

Today is going to be a mess. Drivers didn't volunteer for this Sunday ages ago because they had no idea who would be in the final, but took a gamble. They can't now just say they'll work after all so the service today is going to be poor. Sunday's usually are and it's funny that some people say the new timetable is a mess and trains were fine before (on a Sunday, they've never been fine even if you have better days than others depending on the time of year).

I don't know why timetables always have to change on a Sunday, but I guess it was today or next Sunday and I doubt another working week of uncertainty would be preferable to just writing today off and hoping for improvements from Monday onwards.

But it is GTR that have claimed everything was going to be perfect from today. You knew it wasn’t. They knew it wasn’t. Nothing stopped them saying July 17th was the beginning of stability did they. This is a GTR own goal. They didn’t prepare again.

 

[sefton]

The trains have been delivered and are performing well

No they are not.

I have suffered many delays from cancelled services where something has gone wrong with these unreliable things.

 

[AM9]

GTR have failed with everything they have promised hence why I want them out.

My dislike for them has come with the performance of the franchise. The years of driver shortages, declining standards and lies and lack of admission they have done anything wrong. Surely you don’t believe this is all down to network rail. Surely you don’t think the lie they told today was acceptable? They haven’t delivered what they promised today (as usual and as expected). GTR won’t get punishment because of the bribe they paid DFT until September. Good business sense that I hope sees some heads roll in the government.

But for me the final straw is when they started lying to passengers. I can’t see how we will get a better service under GTR. Perhaps you will enlighten me. But mine and other passengers views of the GTR management are by experience. I want a better train service. With GTR not making profits out of their current poor performance. They are currently getting rewarded for failure.

Have they ever given a sincere apology? I don’t remember one. They normally apologise and deflect the blame onto someone else. Ie not an apology. The contempt they show passengers is unacceptable. Passengers are an inconvenience to them. If they were genuinely sorry and admitted their failings again i May have a different view of them.

I know you have stated you don’t commute any more. But when you need to leave home 1 hour earlier than you used to to get to work at the same time or when you previously had 8 trains per hour into London and sometimes you only get 1 you will be unhappy. Let’s say this stabilises the service. This is still a long way below the May 2018 timetable and in fact below the May 2017 timetable. GTR won’t say if / when they will be able to deliver they May 2018 timetable. That is before we even think about rail plan 2020. Will it ever happen? So let’s say the reduced timetable works next week. When the company running the franchise doesn’t know when we will get back to 2017 levels of service doesn’t really inspire confidence they are capable of delivering any kind of improvement. If next week is classed as a success we have really let our standards slip. Delivery of the full timetable should be the definition of success. Are GTR capable?

I wasn't disputing that they have been a less than perfect TOC, just like Connex, FCC and others. I was surprised that just replacing them with an unknown was a benefit like getting a better service as in:
"If it succeeds then we get a reliable service but keep GTR. If it fails we have a rubbish service but hopefully get rid of GTR."
Even if GTR has their management contract curtailed, they will be replaced by another profit-seeking commercial company from the buggins-turn pool, AND, they will do what the DfT tells them. That's the problem with harbouring an all-consuming hatred. We should all be careful of what we wish for.