Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[jellybaby]

Surely we should be expecting some kind of improvement, albeit gradual.

Only at the rate drivers can be trained.

 

[Bishopstone]

Looking at the Core live departure boards, today seems a little better in respect of late running and cancellations beyond those already input yesterday.

 

[Minstral25]

All Thameslink or were Southern getting cancelled as well?

There are no Southern Services between London Bridge and Redhill route stations anymore. On 20th May all services were transferred to Thameslink and all Thameslink were cancelled.

 

[Stampy]

I'm on the 0954 service from Peterborough to Horsham (9J23) this morning:-

On time departure from Peterborough

at 1046
Running to time all the way to just before Hitchin, where it sat for 5 minutes to allow the (1T19) service (the 0910 from King's Lynn to King's Cross) to go in front of it!!!*
The 9J23 is currently (as I type this) just South of Knebworth running 5 minutes late, whilst the 1T19 service is on Welwyn Viaduct (running 10 mins late)

* It did EXACTLY the same yesterday!!!

1049
The 9J23 has just been given the go ahead to go into the 2 track section between Welwyn & Knebworth in front of 1A70 (the 0756 from Bradford to King's Cross) - which WAS running on time, but is now also 5 mins late (after it stopped at the protecting signal for the 2 track section - it's last stop being Doncaster!!!)

1113
The 9J23 has just left Finsbury Park (ironically whilst crossing over the viaduct there it went over the 1A70 !!!)
It's now in St Pancras International running 3 mins late.

1126
Arrived at Blackfriars (3 mins late) - departed 4 mins late

1134
Depart London Bridge - 3 mins late

1146
Arrived East Croydon - 2 mins late

Where I've got off.....

 

[ijmad]

On the plus side, only one additional cancellation on the Luton to Rainham route either way today (although significant services removed from the timetable so not sure that counts as a 'win' really).

 

[zoneking]

I will refuse to rely on any journey from the journey planner that includes Thameslink for the routes I normally use - Purley to Redhill, Purley to London.

 

[Deepgreen]

Tory MPs loyalty will only last so long. Their constituents are some of the victims of this shambles, and MPs, especially in more marginal seats, will be extremely concerned that they will lose votes due to this, especially if the election is soon and they've not been seen taking some sort of action!

However, Tory voters in the Home Counties will require far more than mere travel turmoil, job losses and family life destruction to change their ingrained voting habits, so nothing will change there.

 

[ijmad]

However, Tory voters in the Home Counties will require far more than mere travel turmoil, job losses and family life destruction to change their ingrained voting habits, so nothing will change there.

You don't have to convince them all. Some seats are very safe yes, but plenty in the home counties start turning red with a 5% swing from voters in the middle. Not good for a party with a razor thin majority.

 

[Class465fan]

Currently on the thameslink service that's now expected to terminate at dartford instead of luton. So now I'll have to wait for another bloody train for abbey wood. Seriously when will this nightmare end!?

 

[Stampy]

I'm on the 0954 service from Peterborough to Horsham (9J23) this morning:-

Just checked on the RTT site for other trains from PBO to Horsham:-

9J19 0857 - Cancelled (with reason code TI)
9J21 0926 - Ran as per timetable
9J23 0954 - Running (I was on it) - currently at Three Bridges running 2 minutes late
9J25 1024 - Wierd..... showing on OpenTrain Times as departing Hitchin at 1110 and that's it... Disappeared off RTT
9J27 1054 - Cancelled - This service was cancelled throughout due to the planned cancellation (was not planned to operate) (PD).

 

[Kanrakuq]

You don't have to convince them all. Some seats are very safe yes, but plenty in the home counties start turning red with a 5% swing from voters in the middle. Not good for a party with a razor thin majority.

Arlesey and Sandy might be faring a bit better right now if they didn't have a Conservative MP with a majority of 20,000+.

 

[tsr]

9J25 1024 - Wierd..... showing on OpenTrain Times as departing Hitchin at 1110 and that's it... Disappeared off RTT

Allegedly cancelled throughout, according to internal messages.

 

[Steveo77]

I travel between Sutton and Wimbledon and the current morning rush hour timetable looks like this.

7.19am
9.19am
9.49am

How can you run a service with a TWO hour gap in the morning rush hour ???

 

[physics34]

However, Tory voters in the Home Counties will require far more than mere travel turmoil, job losses and family life destruction to change their ingrained voting habits, so nothing will change there.

Corbyn and Abbott are hardly an option though!

 

[sefton]

Delay Repay claims must be soaring through the roof.

With the reduction in trains from those in the Railplan2020 timetable (and not including ad hoc on the day cancellations or delays) there must be a huge number of people who intended to catch these removed trains and now have to catch a later one.

 

[stut]

Arlesey and Sandy might be faring a bit better right now if they didn't have a Conservative MP with a majority of 20,000+.

Yup, you could stick a blue rosette on a marrow round here and it could get in.

The Labour PPC (are they PPCs if there's no election announced?) has been quite vocal about the railways recently, leading a cross-party campaign for access at Biggleswade, doing a lot of work around the timetable change impacts, etc. Can't see him making major inroads, but this is definitely his forte.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Currently on the thameslink service that's now expected to terminate at dartford instead of luton. So now I'll have to wait for another bloody train for abbey wood. Seriously when will this nightmare end!?

So much for journey opportunities! You can’t even get a train past Dartford let alone the core or Luton!

 

[JonathanH]

Delay Repay claims must be soaring through the roof.

With the reduction in trains from those in the Railplan2020 timetable (and not including ad hoc on the day cancellations or delays) there must be a huge number of people who intended to catch these removed trains and now have to catch a later one.

Yes, but one of the obvious problems is that while direct trains get cancelled, there are still connecting trains that could be taken but are very busy and which may not be possible to board. Therefore, it is difficult to register the delay to the next direct train.

 

[infobleep]

wow things are really bad on Thameslink this morning - a 2 hour gap between services from Sutton to Wimbledon during the morning rush hour peak.
if this was a one off I could understand, but from what i have been reading this disruption could last until at least August ??

What makes it worse is that there are additional Southern trains that run in the peaks but in the morning they only run between Wimbeldon and Sutton and that direction seems to have Thameslink trains anyway.

 

[AM9]

Corbyn and Abbott are hardly an option though!

They aren't an option at all unless you live in North Islington or Hackney/Stoke Newington.

 

[3141]

It will be interesting to read an independent report into such a monumental failure to deliver the GTR timetable change which has been in the planning for so long...….

I agree with a lot of what you've said. I'd add that no manager wants to tell his superior that something isn't working, so they go on saying that it's going to be OK to the point where it's too late to arrange any alternative action.

When these problems started much was said about trains being in the wrong place. If that was the problem it shouldn't take many days to get them where they're needed. If the real problem is that not enough drivers are trained for new routes and rosters then there's no quick solution. Could the previous timetable be reinstated? Maybe the knock-on effects on other services would mean a new round of chaos, possibly affecting other areas and other operators.

Actually I feel a bit sorry for Chris Grayling. I realise that that statement should probably be in the Controversial Railway Opinion thread! The Secretary of State for Transport isn't there to manage the railway system, which is the job of the TOCs, who've got it wrong in this case. Some of the Conservative MPs who've strongly criticised him are probably upset that the privatised system is making a mess of things when they believe it's always better. Plus, of course, their constituents are angry, and although some have big majorities, others do not, and a gradual build-up of dissatisfaction over one thing and another can lead to enough voters changing their minds that individual MPs lose their seats, and another party gets a majority.

As someone has already said, an inquiry isn't going to help anyone's journey to work over the next few days or even weeks. I doubt that there's enough for Grayling to get a grip of. On the information available, it seems that the best that can be hoped for is a reduced timetable that works reliably, and allows enough driver training to take place for the proposed t.t. to be introduced in several weeks' time.

I don't know if the franchises for GTR and Northern could be terminated because of these problems. Who would replace them? The problem of an insufficient number of retrained drivers would still be there. Perhaps one outcome of what's happening will be a revision of the franchise system.

 

[BRX]

The Secretary of State for Transport isn't there to manage the railway system, which is the job of the TOCs,

The job of the TOCs is to manage their own franchised operations. Not 'the railway system'.

 

[Bishopstone]

A reminder that the next General Election isn’t due until 2022, and under the Fixed Term Parliaments Act, will only happen before then if sufficient *Conservative* MPs believe an early election to be in their interests.

By 2022, a few months of rail turmoil in 2018 will be long forgotten, except by those who probably wouldn’t vote Conservative under any circumstances.

Also worth remembering that even in commuter belt constituencies, most folk don’t use the train from one month to the next.

The internet is full of communities who believe the Government is about to fall, because the stuff they obsess about is being neglected/under-funded/banned etc. Whereas, the people who decide elections are those who take only a passing interest in topical matters.

Anyway, back to Thameslink....

 

[3141]

The job of the TOCs is to manage their own franchised operations. Not 'the railway system'.

Apologies for my loose wording.

 

[BRblue]

I'm on the 0954 service from Peterborough to Horsham (9J23) this morning:-

On time departure from Peterborough

at 1046
Running to time all the way to just before Hitchin, where it sat for 5 minutes to allow the (1T19) service (the 0910 from King's Lynn to King's Cross) to go in front of it!!!*
The 9J23 is currently (as I type this) just South of Knebworth running 5 minutes late, whilst the 1T19 service is on Welwyn Viaduct (running 10 mins late)

* It did EXACTLY the same yesterday!!!

1049
The 9J23 has just been given the go ahead to go into the 2 track section between Welwyn & Knebworth in front of 1A70 (the 0756 from Bradford to King's Cross) - which WAS running on time, but is now also 5 mins late (after it stopped at the protecting signal for the 2 track section - it's last stop being Doncaster!!!)

1113
The 9J23 has just left Finsbury Park (ironically whilst crossing over the viaduct there it went over the 1A70 !!!)
It's now in St Pancras International running 3 mins late.

1126
Arrived at Blackfriars (3 mins late) - departed 4 mins late

1134
Depart London Bridge - 3 mins late

1146
Arrived East Croydon - 2 mins late

Where I've got off.....

Which is how they were booked to run as per the WTT.
In addition to that there looks to be a lot of platform changes aswell... 1A70 had to be held outside waiting for platform 5 to clear as its normal platform 1 was already occupied. There would of been nothing gained by letting the 1A70 past the 9J23.
I cannot see anything wrong with what's been done there to be honest.

 

[AM9]

The job of the TOCs is to manage their own franchised operations. Not 'the railway system'.

Yes, 'the railway system' is regulated by and funded through the Department for Transport, which in turn is directed and represented in parliament by the SoS for Transport, currently one Christopher Stephen Grayling, MP for Epsom and Ewell. Any failing of the railway system is ultimately down to him alone however he may squirm and try to pass the blame onto others.
GTR is not a franchise holder in the conventional sense as it merely manages the services on behalf of the DfT, handing all receipts over then receiving a fixed £8.9BN fee. So not much of an inscentive to do more than the minimum.

 

[DaveN]

GTR is not a franchise holder in the conventional sense as it merely manages the services on behalf of the DfT, handing all receipts over then receiving a fixed £8.9BN fee. So not much of an inscentive to do more than the minimum.

Absolutely and made even worse by the fact GTR have paid £10m DfT in advance to cover performance payments for any Thameslink disruption up until September 2018.

 

[jon0844]

They did do what they said and not put not-to-stop orders on all delayed trains. 2C30 (plus many others impacted by a 9xxx train at FPK), ended up right behind 2C32 that it followed behind all the way to Cambridge! The only station it didn't call at was Cambridge North.

 

[Kanrakuq]

The internet is full of communities who believe the Government is about to fall, because the stuff they obsess about is being neglected/under-funded/banned etc. Whereas, the people who decide elections are those who take only a passing interest in topical matters.

That's true, although of course the way every government falls is when there are enough disparate groups of people no doubt ignorant of problems others are facing but nevertheless angry enough at XYZ that's happening to them to decide to vote for the other lot. This is just a new pile of annoyed people to add to the other ones already out there. Eventually they get too large, or there become too many people in them, or a bit of both.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

I have only one question.... after TWO seperate long term blockades of the "core" where the TOC was praised for managing to perform to a high standard why has GTR made such a mess of the timetable changes... which co-incide with it NOT having a blockade? is it because the TOC had got too complacent with basically running 2 seperate networks and has "forgotton" how to run a through route?