Not convinced - it takes at least 15mins, if not more to get to StP from London Bridge, considerably less than the Victoria line from Victoria.
Plus, far more Southern services as well.
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Thameslink Programme, South Central & South Eastern area fleet cascades etc
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Not convinced - it takes at least 15mins, if not more to get to StP from London Bridge, considerably less than the Victoria line from Victoria.
Plus, far more Southern services as well.
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Helvellyn
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The plan seems to be for the majority of the Class 319s to go to FGW, with a number to Northern for the Manchester-Liverpool services.
There was talk of concentrating the 323 fleet with LM a while back. Plan could be to move 30+ 319s to Northern to cover the Liverpool-Manchester route, plus cascade the 323s. The 323s could then displace some 350s to FTPE for the Manchester Airport to Scotland services.
As to where the 365s end up, nobody seems sure yet. South Eastern could be a possibility, with some 375s moving across to Southern.
The 365s are a flexible design in that they are 20m bodies (same as the 465s/466s) and standard width. Only the 165/166 units were built slightly wider (and use 23m bodyshells).
The other interesting thing is what happens with the FGW branches around London, plus the Basingstoke and Guildford/Gatwick services. Will FGW have to maintain a small fleet of diesel units for these? Or will the pressure build to electrify these routes to allow Thames suburban routes to go entirely electric. Don't forget that with electrification, the new depot to be built at Reading is likely to be for EMUs rather than DMUs, so it could be that momentum builds to have some add ons to go all electric.
There was talk of concentrating the 323 fleet with LM a while back. Plan could be to move 30+ 319s to Northern to cover the Liverpool-Manchester route, plus cascade the 323s. The 323s could then displace some 350s to FTPE for the Manchester Airport to Scotland services.
As to where the 365s end up, nobody seems sure yet. South Eastern could be a possibility, with some 375s moving across to Southern.
The 365s are a flexible design in that they are 20m bodies (same as the 465s/466s) and standard width. Only the 165/166 units were built slightly wider (and use 23m bodyshells).
The other interesting thing is what happens with the FGW branches around London, plus the Basingstoke and Guildford/Gatwick services. Will FGW have to maintain a small fleet of diesel units for these? Or will the pressure build to electrify these routes to allow Thames suburban routes to go entirely electric. Don't forget that with electrification, the new depot to be built at Reading is likely to be for EMUs rather than DMUs, so it could be that momentum builds to have some add ons to go all electric.
Turn up at St Pancras and try it! I reckon 95% of the time its considerably faster on the Victoria Line and Southern/ Gatwick Express. It may be to do with the frequency of the vic line and southern/Gatwick express. I dont find the transfer at London Bridge from the Northern Line to the terminus platforms particularly fast or easier either especially with luggage.
MCR247
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Yes, it maybe if you have a Gatwick Express ticket! So why would FCC say use GatEx, when some tickets might not be valid
mackenzie_blu
Member
One thing you are forgetting. You can manage the luggage but alot of people can't. Going via London Bridge means most of the jounery is step free and later this year it will be all step free once the new Northern Line lift is working. The extra time is worth it for some customers with kids or heavy luggage.
But this thread is drifting now quite a bit!
Now, I'm probably wrong, but if (for example) you were travelling BTN-BED on a weekend with on off-peak ticket, they usually say any route valid - doesn't that mean you can change at Gatwick and get a GatEx to Victoria then tube it to STP? It is a cross-London route?
mackenzie_blu
Member
Right some 377 news, today we had the highest yet number of 377 on Thameslink. Well for a time!
The diagrams were filled a such;
601 377511
602 377512
603 377505
604 377502
605 319446
606 377504
607 277209
608 377509
609 377510
610 377508
611 377208
612 377507
613 377513
614 377213
615 377501
All was going well until on its first southbound trip of the day 377511 and 377512 on diagram 1T21 the units failed with door problems at St Pancras International. Cue 30mins at a stand and 10mins to empty the train before the units finally limped off to Moorgate.
613 ended up being double diagramed with 612 later on meaning 377513 didn't do a normally single jounery up north and back. Good news for some customers.
As it stands 377509/512/513 are unliveried. 377506 didn't show its face this morning either.
Oh and 319430 is still in full sliver livery with blue doors and yellow window surrounds despite claims its been part put into TLP livery.
The diagrams were filled a such;
601 377511
602 377512
603 377505
604 377502
605 319446
606 377504
607 277209
608 377509
609 377510
610 377508
611 377208
612 377507
613 377513
614 377213
615 377501
All was going well until on its first southbound trip of the day 377511 and 377512 on diagram 1T21 the units failed with door problems at St Pancras International. Cue 30mins at a stand and 10mins to empty the train before the units finally limped off to Moorgate.
613 ended up being double diagramed with 612 later on meaning 377513 didn't do a normally single jounery up north and back. Good news for some customers.
As it stands 377509/512/513 are unliveried. 377506 didn't show its face this morning either.
Oh and 319430 is still in full sliver livery with blue doors and yellow window surrounds despite claims its been part put into TLP livery.
Yeah, was travelling to ELS today and on the return journey was greeted with news of a 30 minute delay and ticket acceptance on the tube.
I also saw 430 today, I never remember that livery even in the Thameslink days!
Is it likely that the 377s will be running those diagram numbers for a while then, or will we be reverting back to 319s running some of those diagrams in the next few days?
I also saw 430 today, I never remember that livery even in the Thameslink days!
Is it likely that the 377s will be running those diagram numbers for a while then, or will we be reverting back to 319s running some of those diagrams in the next few days?
mackenzie_blu
Member
Well I expect them to try and run 14 377 diagrams this week because it releases the pressure on the 319's. We may even seen 15 377 out and about. Not much stopping them do it as long as 377511/512 is ok for service.
The Box Photter
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Just missed the two 377s on 1W84 this morning from Flitwick (07.05hrs). Must try to get up earlier!
I understand this train is formed from Diagrams 612 & 613, is FCC planning to run these diagrams with 377s from now on?
I understand this train is formed from Diagrams 612 & 613, is FCC planning to run these diagrams with 377s from now on?
mackenzie_blu
Member
As said before FCC want to run as many 377 as possible. Every diagram has been run a few times by a 377 but it is getting to be a case that the diagrams are filling up with 377. Id expect this week for them to run 14 diagrams as long as the stock is workable. There are two more 377/5 at Selhurst but these will only replace the 377/2 borrowed from Southern. Its only 6 weeks until the new diagrams come out.
Aictos
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Middle of October then or there abouts?
mackenzie_blu
Member
Current diagrams are valid till 10th October, or just over five weeks till the new diagrams. Im expecting to see around 19 377 diagrams.
westcoaster
Established Member
lol, you obvously missed it last week, this was refernce to two cars bing graffitied, the colous used by said artist, were pink/orange/yellow and other bright colours:roll:, keep up at the back.
The Box Photter
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Any clues what happened to 1W84 this morning? Shown as "on time" at Flitwick, then a single 319 rolls in with no interior lights on at about 07.09hrs showing "Not in Service" on the indicator blind. Driver stops on Plat 3 at Flitwick, turns lights on and opens doors to let us all on (to general sounds of approval from the huddled masses).
We then ran roughly to the 1W84 schedule and stopping pattern. No class 377s. Did they disgrace themselves this morning?
Strangely, the platform indicators showed the train as a "Passing Service" at Flitwick with the 07.05hrs as the next train due in.
We then ran roughly to the 1W84 schedule and stopping pattern. No class 377s. Did they disgrace themselves this morning?
Strangely, the platform indicators showed the train as a "Passing Service" at Flitwick with the 07.05hrs as the next train due in.
TrainDriver
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It appears that the planned 377's have gone wrong on Cauldwell depot somewhere and a 319 has deputised and run directly to Flitwick (obviously missing Bedford to make up time).
Nothing strange about it showing a Passing service as the system would have seen 5G84 approaching the platform. When the signaller re-keyed it to 1W84 the screens on the platform would have corrected themselves, showing the train properly. That is also why it would have showed on time, as the service didn't exist until Flitwick so no delay information to show.
mackenzie_blu
Member
Quite correct, one of the 377 failed so a 319 was sent straight from Cauldwell to Filtwick missing out Bedford station.
In fact there was four 377 off service today, the units being 377505/507/510/513. 377510 was the unit that fasiled at SPILL yesterday.
On a bit of good news 377506 made its first day in passenger service today without any issues expect timekeeping. It was due to go to Ashford tonight with 377501.
Just incase anyone was wondering how the fleet stands heres the run down;
Borrowed 377/2: 377208/209/213
Liveried 377/5; 377501/502/504/505/507/508/510/511
Plain 377/5: 377506/509/512/513
377/5 at Selhurst on comissioning runs: 377516/520
That give FCC 12 of their 'own' Electrostars and 3 borrowed with a max 15 diagrammed units not yet reached.
377516 is due w/c 14th sept
377520 is due w/c 28th sept
No news yet on any new Electrostars heading for Selhurst.
The Box Photter
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Thanks for the info regarding 1W84 chaps. It hadn't crossed my mind to suspect the unit had run empty straight from Cauldwell. Anyway, top marks for getting a service train out at all as the 07.05 is one of the busy ones and we arrived at St Pancras only about 5 mins down. Tea & medals for all concerned!
mackenzie_blu
Member
Just a mini update. Been informed by Selhurst depot that the 350/1 are on loan until November so they 377/2 are in no hurry to return back to Selhurst. This could be the reason why two went back to FCC recently as a new loan period was agreed.
Odd. LM crew yesterday said that LM wanted the 350s back at end of September, as SN said they could handle it, as they wanted to settle down the 350s into their split diagrams ie /1s and /2s, and get the 321 diagrams fully settled prior to the Dec TT change.
Daimler
Member
About time too - pretty much every Crewe service I see is operated by a /2!
mackenzie_blu
Member
Sounds like they changed their minds. I found out at the weekend about keeping them to december, just forgot to put it on here. Clearly shows that the situation with the stock is still fluid.
But will Southern get all three 377/2 back? Especially with only two to swap but I suppose FCC could cope for now with 14 377/5.
Electrostar
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Slightly off topic but same line and hope experts like Mackenzie Blu might know. Do Freedom passes have to be touched in at Elephant and Castle? I want to take my grandmother from Beckenham Jn to St Panc before 9.30am. The FP isn't valid at this time between Beckenham and Elephant but it is between Elephant and St P. Can we buy a single to Elephant and stay on train to St P or would we need to get off go out of station and touch back in for next service?Also does anyone know how reliable the 7am-ish direct (think around five past and 17 past) trains from Beckenham Junction to St Panc are?
mackenzie_blu
Member
Very off topic and Im afraid I don't know. Have an idea but Im not offically ticket trained. Can I suggest you post this in the fares and ticketing forum as they are trained guys who can answer this for sure for you.
I dont want to tell you something and it being wrong and you get fined for it!
Electrostar
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No worries. I'll post over there. Thanks anyway. Btw do you know what class generally operate those services that I mentioned?
mackenzie_blu
Member
Going off whats doing it when Ive noticed its the /2 and /3. But with the fleet how it is these days you could get anything.
New update from some information I got ahold of today.
Fleet
- 377516 & 377520 are now expected within the next week or so at Bedford. This means the 377 fleet will increase to 17. This means the 3 borrowed units are staying put for the moment to give FCC some breathing space.
- More tests are being done this week on the software for the door opening. Seems AC interfence is the cause of the door fault on the 377's at St Pancras. Although they still haven't got the problem sorted its been worked on still.
- Three 377 will receive liveries this week. Units 506/509/512/513 are still in the original purple with pink doors.
- There is going to be a three week gap in deliveries. This is because of Bombardier's production schedule. (Not great reason but heard that this was the case a few months ago. Shortage once again of parts left Bombardier to lay off staff for a month. Although the 377/5 production line is supposed to be with the 172's now an the 377 are sharing with the 378's)
Stations
- Platform lighting at City is being removed and replaced as part of the upgrade.
- The final preferred design for London Bridge station has nearly been identified by Network Rail. Final design is to be confirmed at years end.
- LUL and NR are in talks over management, operational arrangements and FCC's requirement for ticket sales at Farringdon. (I believe this is the case for Blackfriars as well.)
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The Box Photter
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Hello all, 1W84 was back using 2x319/3 units this morning (and pretty ropey ones too!). It seems a bit hit & miss whether those two diagrams are covered by 377s.
Has the operational fleet been reduced to allow vinyls to be applied?
It was certainly a comedown after 377507 & 377508 ran the same service yesterday.
Just a reminder to all that FCC is having another "online meet the managers" forum this Friday 11th Sept between 13.00hrs and 15.00hrs.
Could be a good opportunity to pick up some more info on FCC services & stock.
Has the operational fleet been reduced to allow vinyls to be applied?
It was certainly a comedown after 377507 & 377508 ran the same service yesterday.
Just a reminder to all that FCC is having another "online meet the managers" forum this Friday 11th Sept between 13.00hrs and 15.00hrs.
Could be a good opportunity to pick up some more info on FCC services & stock.
mackenzie_blu
Member
Those were the only two 377 diagrams filled by 319's today. But sadly 377507/508 failed as 2W12 and terimated at Tulse Hill today. I don't know the reason but the the south DM of 507 was the cause.
The fleet has never run higher than 14 diagrams so there is atleast a spare 377 to liver. I believe at the moment FCC are slowly upping the numbers in service to allow for natural progression and development of using them in every day service. Once the next two units turn up I'd expect all the 377/5 to be liveried fairly quick (well ones that were left).
As for the 319 diagrams, its always been hit and miss which ones didn't get a 377 expect the SE diagrams (601/602, 603/604, 610/611 & 614/615).
Don't forget FCC is still training drivers up on how to driver the 377's at the moment so it needs some spare units for now.
**update**
Im now told there is a new 377/5 heading for Selhurst on friday. This fits as its three weeks after 377520 was deliveried. Cheers to Matthew at ModernEMU for the heads up.
377516 & 377520 are heading for Cauldwell after further testing at Moorgate with the track balise. Movement are
5Z26 1054 Selhurst depot - Kentish Town 1143
5Z26 1149 Kentish Town - Moorgate 1159
5Z26 1205 Moorgate - Bedford 1325
5Z26 1330 Bedford - Cauldwell depot 1348.
**Update 2**
377521 is on its way to Selhurst as I type.
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