Thameslink Programme, South Central & South Eastern area fleet cascades etc

[paul1609]

not 215 im afraid, 215 was sitting in cricklewood all day still on a wheel skate, word on the street is southern refused/ did not want to help fcc out so she is being skated all the way back to bedford from brighton.

Do Southern (Selhurst) still do any maintenance for FCC? I was under the impression that FCC had moved all their maintenance to Hornsey to improve performance.
The 377/5s are obviously different because of the sub leasing situation. I'd guess that its not a matter of Southern not wanting to help out FCC rather they no longer have the capacity or that theyve quoted FCC a price FCC dont like?

 

[westcoaster]

all maintinance is back in house done at either cauldwell or hornsey, ive heard they refused to help, unit was stuck in a platform at brighton assistance asked for from lovers walk, to the relpy NO (matbe they were thinking of the money from delays and canx, and reduced capacity), so guys from cauldwell had to go down to brighton to sort it out.

 

[paul1609]

If the unit was stuck in a platform at Brighton thats probably the place thats least likely to cause delays as the station has ample platform capacity and is very flexible in operation. I'm not sure how Lovers Lane would have removed the unit as there is no longer a station pilot at Brighton and I dont believe that 377 stock can couple to 319s even for emergency operations.

 

[Ilove165's]

377s can't couple to 319s due to the fact that 377s have Dellner coupling gear

Sam

 

[mackenzie_blu]

377 213 was doing the rounds today.

 

[westcoaster]

there is still a class 09 based at lovers walk.

 

[class 313]

377s can't couple to 319s due to the fact that 377s have Dellner coupling gear

Sam

But another 319 could drag of dragged it to Lovers Walk.

 

[paul1609]

there is still a class 09 based at lovers walk.

i didnt realise that, out of interest how was the 319 recovered by FCC?

 

[westcoaster]

i think it was pushed/pulled to preston park cs, its move back to cauldwell has taken 3 days, being carried out over night under its own power as far as i am aware.

 

[Edvid]

Upon departure from Preston Park CS, the corresponding intermediate stabling points were Selhurst on Wednesday and Cricklewood on Friday. And as it happens the other unit getting a mini-refresh alongside 010 is 001.

377213 was snapped at Farringdon.

 

[westcoaster]

edvid is there a list of the 377/2's t have come onto the mml its 4/5 now isnt it
202, 213,214, ?

 

[Edvid]

So far we've had 6 units - 201, the former 'resident' , 208, 211, 213 and 214. 201 and 208 were the first two to be tested in the core - just before the 'warm-up' Bank Holiday blockade of Kings Cross Tunnel in August 2004.

 

[westcoaster]

is the unit for the training run coming of the london bridge-wimbledon-london bridge mornong diagram

 

[Edvid]

Now you mention it, 211 was assigned to that very service yesterday so I think you're right. Which presumably means the BI 377/2s* won't touch TL metals.

[* 201 and 203-208 unless some have swapped depots again]

 

[Edvid]

The other unit getting a mini-refresh alongside 010 is 001.

Mackenzie_blu has informed me that 010 is now back in service with a new FCC livery but still has the original NSE interior. I've noticed that 001 hasn't been converted either so it sounds like Cauldwell Walk are just re(painting/vinyling) the ex-NSR 319s and presumably (not before the sub-lease agreement with NSR is terminated) Hornsey will still take care of their interiors.

 

[paul1609]

Isnt it time that FCC were announcing emergency arrangements for March? It seems very likely that none of the new rolling stock will be available. Assuming Southern are able to lend say 10 x 377/2 to FCC the march timetable either needs to be postponed or an alternative timetable needs to be introduced. I'd suggest terminating all off peak fcc services in platform 6 at Gatwick. this would obviously be devistating for the thameslink route which earns more income south of st pancras than north but needs must!

 

[westcoaster]

002 is the current unit in for vinyling
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
http://www.transportbriefing.co.uk/story.php?id=5496

kind off says why trains are delayed in production

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Isnt it time that FCC were announcing emergency arrangements for March? It seems very likely that none of the new rolling stock will be available. Assuming Southern are able to lend say 10 x 377/2 to FCC the march timetable either needs to be postponed or an alternative timetable needs to be introduced. I'd suggest terminating all off peak fcc services in platform 6 at Gatwick. this would obviously be devistating for the thameslink route which earns more income south of st pancras than north but needs must!

Problem is the SouthEastern services from the Core (Ashford International/Rochester) with the bays closed they need DV stock to run this and even with the added 319s from Southern. Although it could be run from City Thameslink using Networkers.

Although that Bombardier has said they are working towards having 14 377s ready for the March deadline. Nothing being said internally at the moment on the subject. But I believe 377501 is coming on a saturday.

Has anyone heard if Network Rail is still behind with the Farringdon works?

 

[Edvid]

Presumably 501 stayed put at Derby again (surely the 30+ faults discovered on November 28 should have been fixed by now). Although a few days ago a member of the southernrailway Yahoo Group mentioned it might be dragged this week and certainly not yesterday.

Interestingly, someone on uk.railway reckons that FCC should keeps its hands off the 377/2s and should be able to cope with shortformed KO0 services until the 377/5s arrive as the West London Line services suffer relatively worse overcrowding (apparently). Can't remember which thread though.

Oh, and Roger Ford of Modern Railways reckons the KO0 services will start with 14 377s (note that no sub-class is specified), which contradicts what we've heard elsewhere.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Presumably 501 stayed put at Derby again (surely the 30+ faults discovered on November 28 should have been fixed by now). Although a few days ago a member of the southernrailway Yahoo Group mentioned it might be dragged this week and certainly not yesterday.

Interestingly, someone on uk.railway reckons that FCC should keeps its hands off the 377/2s and should be able to cope with shortformed KO0 services until the 377/5s arrive as the West London Line services suffer relatively worse overcrowding (apparently). Can't remember which thread though.

Oh, and Roger Ford of Modern Railways reckons the KO0 services will start with 14 377s (note that no sub-class is specified), which contradicts what we've heard elsewhere.

The sheer fact is no new rolling stock for KO0 means no KO0. Basically without the new trains we're talking about replacing full packed 6 car trains with 4 car services. Dangerous and ultimately the public will hit the roof as that is no improvement and I doubt eith DfT, FCC or SouthEastern would be willing to endure that.

Note as well Farringdon was running late (tho Im not sure if this is still the case) and that will have an impact on LU.

Thinking about it I can't see why some of the DV 375/6 CANT be used. If you only serve the major stations on the Bedford to Brighton route there are train dispatchers at these stations

So Im talking, Bedford, Luton, Luton Airport Parkway, St Pancras (can be done), Farringdon (can be done), City Thameslink (dispatching is coming back here soon), Blackfriars, London Bridge, East Croydon, Three Bridges, Haywards Heath and Brighton.

As for the Kent services, do 375/6 serve the routes the Networkers do? If they aren't allowed to run then maybe the Networkers would have to stay for now.

 

[class 313]

Why not St Albans?

 

[dan_atki]

Why not St Albans?

A question I was wondering myself. LTN has DOO monitors and has never had platform staff available for dispatch.

 

[Edvid]

EMT HSTs require platform staff for dispatch at LTN, but yes the DOO monitors suffice for 319s (and 377s have their own of course); 222s are dispatched by TMs/guards on board.

Assuming that SER can cope with a temporary reduction in 375/6s and services* since Networkers are banned from certain mainline SER routes, you would end up with fewer station calls at 'outer' TL stations without dispatch staff (notably Harpenden) without major changes to the originally planned KO0 service, and however the service is altered certain stations would be subject to a worse service if only 375/6s were acquired.

If fewer than, say, 8 377/5s are delivered before March 22 (which seems rather likely) then the case for running 375/6s on the TL network becomes stronger as the 377/2s would certainly be unable to fully counter the 377/5 shortage. But what would have backfilled the 377/2s in order to assist their transfer to FCC? If anything, 375/6s (the caveat of fewer SER services applies here too).

Am I making sense here?

[* Unlikely IMO]

 

[MCR247]

Why do people say 377/2 could be used? But arent most of them used on Brighton - MK?

 

[westcoaster]

what about this for an idea, southern use 377/2 on the current ecr-wfj/mkc services right , these services have guards on them north of clapham junc,as doo services are not allowed on the wcml, why not use the 375/6's on these services and have the guard stay on to and from ecr, and move the 377/2's across to the tl side solving the problem of non arrived stock in the short term.

 

[Edvid]

Great minds think alike...

Why do people say 377/2 could be used? But arent most of them used on Brighton - MK?

The construction of 377/5s is behind schedule, and as it happens 377/2s are the closest relation - therefore they are the best contingency option until all 377/5s are delivered (otherwise the KO0 services cannot start on March 22). ATM 377/2s are used by NSR between East Croydon and Watford Junction (and further north as far as Milton Keynes Central from February 9) as well as on other parts of their network.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

To be honest I don't know St Albans at all but Im sure that they could dispatch from there. To be honest if they really wanted they can get dispatchers out to any stations they wanted with all the extra dispatched currently going through the training.

Just want to raise a point, KO0 building work doesn't actually start on the 22nd March, its the 2nd March. No point closing the Tube station as its linked up to the bay clourse and two new entrances to Blackfrairs unless they keep the Tube station closed for longer if the bay closure is delayed.

Then again major building work is expected at Blackfriars in weeks with a new bridge over the tracks for platform 4 & 5 in place by mid feb.

Luton does have dispatchers there as I did training there. In fact all trains are supposed to be dispatched as the FCC staff there have to learn HST dispatching (where as Im doing the theory side only).

 

[westcoaster]

just to clear up here are the stations with dispatch

tl northen side= bedford, luton, st albans, blackfriars down snow hill only

tl southern side= london bridge, east croydon, redhill, gatwick airport, three bridges all platforms except the down fast, haywards heath, brighton

tl loop= sutton, wimbledon

 

[Edvid]

Just want to raise a point, KO0 building work doesn't actually start on the 22nd March, its the 2nd March. No point closing the Tube station as its linked up to the bay clourse and two new entrances to Blackfrairs unless they keep the Tube station closed for longer if the bay closure is delayed.

Then again major building work is expected at Blackfriars in weeks with a new bridge over the tracks for platform 4 & 5 in place by mid feb.

The TLP website still quotes March 2 for the Blackfriars LUL closure and March 22 for the Moorgate branch closure.

Luton does have dispatchers there as I did training there.

dan_atki was referring to Luton Airport Parkway (which I've elaborated on upthread).

 

[dan_atki]

dan_atki was referring to Luton Airport Parkway (which I've elaborated on upthread).

Indeed I was (completely unaware of HSTs stopping there )! Makes me wonder whether the staff are based at LUT as I can't see them sitting around all day for a handful of departures!