Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[jopsuk]

the 387s have a permanent home that wants to get them into service ASAP. The 319s don't.

 

[jaig]

The Class 387/1s need to go to Great Northern though, the Class 319s don't.

But I'm just saying what I would wish for in the ideal world!!

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[Class377/5]

Oh ok thanks for that!!

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I would have thought that the 700/0's are starting on the Sutton loop instead - the 30 year old 319s should go first AND THEN the 2 year old 387s

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The problem with replacing the 319s is the SE drivers need to sign them so replacing the 387s first makes more sense. Note the next release replaces 377s.

 

[Nic Robinson]

I was under the impression that FLUs were to be used in the long distance runs. Did I get that the wrong way round?

 

[jopsuk]

the services they're getting introduced to now are not necessarily the services they'll run on forever more. Pretty sure the final plan has all the Bedford-Brighton as FLU, the RLU are for Sutton Loop/Cambridge slow

 

[Class377/5]

Bedford for example was always going to see the RLU as he overnight services call all stations (not to mention the 14 car road Carriage Sidings that will never take a 12 car) means the 8 will reach there.especially with today's Sutton/Sevenoaks to Bedford services meaning you have to use 8 cars.

It's worth noting the current configuration isn't always going to be the end one. The whole thing is fluid and won't settle down until December 2018.

Now for news, the 30th 700 and the 15th 700/0 arrived this morning, 700021.

 

[Class 466]

I'd also imagine the BDM-TBD/BTN will have to have a mixture to a certain extent to allow for units to Circulate via Three Bridges Depot.

 

[swt_passenger]

I'd also imagine the BDM-TBD/BTN will have to have a mixture to a certain extent to allow for units to Circulate via Three Bridges Depot.

However trains don't necessarily have to run in passenger service to reach their depot. There will also eventually be the Cambridge to Brighton and Peterborough to Horsham services in the area, and of course we mustn't forget the other depot at Hornsey.

 

[Class377/5]

Class 466 is indeed correct. Both depots will deal with 8 cars. There's a limited need for 8 cars to be on the Bedford to Three Bridges all station service which neatly gets the 8 cars into depot. In fact that's part of the plan from Monday!

 

[Minstral25]

Class 466 is indeed correct. Both depots will deal with 8 cars. There's a limited need for 8 cars to be on the Bedford to Three Bridges all station service which neatly gets the 8 cars into depot. In fact that's part of the plan from Monday!

So the sweeping statement from GTR telling us that every single one of our Thameslink services (Peterborough to Horsham & Bedford to Three bridges routes) will have 12 car trains is in fact another lie?

Albeit for operational reasons

 

[JonathanH]

So the sweeping statement from GTR telling us that every single one of our Thameslink services (Peterborough to Horsham & Bedford to Three bridges routes) will have 12 car trains is in fact another lie?

Albeit for operational reasons

You'll note that the 06:26 from Redhill is a 8-car 700/0 from next week according to post 5486 above http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2720778&postcount=5486

Unless Three Bridges was to have no responsibility for the 8-car sets, it would always have been likely that some end of day services through Redhill would have to be 8-car. The point to pick up with GTR is how they ensure that these don't hit Redhill in the morning peak, eg it might be fine for services before 0600 to be 8-car but not anything later. The evening is more manageable - you'd expect that it would only be late evening services switched from another route that might be 8-car rather than 12.

 

[Class377/5]

So the sweeping statement from GTR telling us that every single one of our Thameslink services (Peterborough to Horsham & Bedford to Three bridges routes) will have 12 car trains is in fact another lie?

Albeit for operational reasons

Your assuming too much. You've made the assumption that the interim arrangements are permanent. The overnight Bedford to tThree Bridge that I've spoken about don't serve Redhil so both statements are correct it's just an understanding that not right.

 

[Sunset route]

The first two 700/0 RLU are due into traffic on Monday replacing 4 x 387/1 diagrams.

(401)
5W84 01+04 Three Bridges Depot to Three Bridges
2W84 01.16 Three Bridges to Bedford
5G84 03+46 Bedford to Bedford CS
5G04 04+33 Bedford CS to Bedford
1W03 04.46 Bedford to Brighton
1W12 07.48 Brighton to Bedford
1W25 10.40 Bedford to Brighton
1W36 13.35 Brighton to Bedford
1W49 16.26 Bedford to Brighton
1W60 19.33 Brighton to Bedford
1W73 22.22 Bedford to Brighton
5W73 01+10 Brighton to Down Sidings

(402)
5W01 05+20 Down Sidings to Brighton
1W04 05.44 Brighton to Bedford
1W17 08.40 Bedford to Brighton
1W28 11.35 Brighton to Bedford
2W45 14.24 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W52 17.05 Three Bridges to Bedford
1W61 19.40 Bedford to Brighton
5W62 22+22 Brighton to Three Bridges Depot

Oh deep joy, they (GTR) have only just updated the prohibited/restriction list for the class 700FLUs, now to add to the confusion we are going to have class 700RLUs units as well. They really need to sort out the signal siting out on them (if the rumour from under the juice rail is correct), as it would be nice to have a go anywhere unit like the 377s

 

[Starmill]

Please tell me more about how unnecessary tables and sockets are on peak time Thameslink services?

View attachment 28755
[Image depicts three laptops on a class 387 table]

 

[Minstral25]

Your assuming too much. You've made the assumption that the interim arrangements are permanent. The overnight Bedford to tThree Bridge that I've spoken about don't serve Redhil so both statements are correct it's just an understanding that not right.

I took the statement that Three Bridges will be receiving 8-car units for servicing permanently, to mean that the operational diagrams would use the Bedford - Three Bridges (Gatwick 2018) to get the 8-car units to Three Bridges. So GTR (D Scorey and others) stating at Public meetings in 2014 & 2015 that Redhill Line is guaranteed to only get 12 coach trains on the route from 2018 would not be technically true.

In current 2018 plans all of Bedford to Gatwick including some of the overnights will call at Redhill, although eventually they will divert to terminate at Reigate (when platform 3 is built in 2021/2) which might make that more difficult.

I'm not that bothered because there are many trains on the route outside of shoulder peak, peak and very late evening services that 8-car will suffice. It's just the classic over promising again.

 

[Class377/5]

Please tell me more about how unnecessary tables and sockets are on peak time Thameslink services?

View attachment 28755
[Image depicts three laptops on a class 387 table]

The hint is in the name, laptop. That's where it's supposed to be used hehe

I took the statement that Three Bridges will be receiving 8-car units for servicing permanently, to mean that the operational diagrams would use the Bedford - Three Bridges (Gatwick 2018) to get the 8-car units to Three Bridges. So GTR (D Scorey and others) stating at Public meetings in 2014 & 2015 that Redhill Line is guaranteed to only get 12 coach trains on the route from 2018 would not be technically true.

In current 2018 plans all of Bedford to Gatwick including some of the overnights will call at Redhill, although eventually they will divert to terminate at Reigate (when platform 3 is built in 2021/2) which might make that more difficult.

I'm not that bothered because there are many trains on the route outside of shoulder peak, peak and very late evening services that 8-car will suffice. It's just the classic over promising again.

Sorry but the Bedford to Three Bridges services are not being diverted away from Gatwick, the main target of the overnight services where airport travellers use them well. These services do not call at Redhill (but are often pathed that way) so it's correct those stations are getting 12 car trains. Also reveleant is Mr Sorcey was incharge of Southern services not Thameslink. I think your confusing the Gatwick to Bedford daytime services with the overnight Bedford all stations on MML (limiting it sensibly to 8 cars) to Three Bridges that links the two airports. The two are very difference and technically they over night services are part of the Brighton service group not the via Redhil one.

Reigate is not getting 700s under any current plan. In fact the recent consultation mentioned fixed formations as being unsuited. Any service serving Reigate will be a Southern going towards London, not Thameslink.

So it's not over promising but simple misunderstanding on your part as to what is being discussed.

 

[Nic Robinson]

The hint is in the name, laptop. That's where it's supposed to be used hehe

Comments such as this are not helping the situation and reinforce a paradigm held by some about rail insiders' attitudes to the public. I urge you to try using a laptop on a 700 with the airline seat legroom provided. Then be sure to get back to us.

 

[Class 466]

Comments such as this are not helping the situation and reinforce a paradigm held by some about rail insiders' attitudes to the public. I urge you to try using a laptop on a 700 with the airline seat legroom provided. Then be sure to get back to us.

I do it daily on a 465 without issue, and they are hardly known for their space!

 

[jon0844]

What size laptop do you have? I prefer portability so have two 11 inch laptops. They're easy to use on a lap, as originally intended, whether a train or at an event. Not usually on short haul flights though, but I rarely need to work when actually flying.

I've actually found that I'd sooner work from an airline seat using a tip down table or lap, than from a table where the person next to me is then watching what I'm doing! When I'm writing, doing a brain dump for later editing, it can be quite embarrassing to have someone reading the crap you're typing initially!

 

[physics34]

If you sit upright and use you laptop whilst it's on your lap you will soon get a sore neck.!

 

[talldave]

What size laptop do you have? I prefer portability so have two 11 inch laptops. They're easy to use on a lap, as originally intended, whether a train or at an event. Not usually on short haul flights though, but I rarely need to work when actually flying.

I've actually found that I'd sooner work from an airline seat using a tip down table or lap, than from a table where the person next to me is then watching what I'm doing! When I'm writing, doing a brain dump for later editing, it can be quite embarrassing to have someone reading the crap you're typing initially!

Get a screen filter - problem solved!

 

[jon0844]

Get a screen filter - problem solved!

I've tried these (had one for my phone too) and it made the screen too dull.

 

[Mordac]

I've tried these (had one for my phone too) and it made the screen too dull.

Maybe you just need to look at more interesting content then!

I'll get me coat

 

[jon0844]

I'll get me coat

 

[Class377/5]

Comments such as this are not helping the situation and reinforce a paradigm held by some about rail insiders' attitudes to the public. I urge you to try using a laptop on a 700 with the airline seat legroom provided. Then be sure to get back to us.

So no jokes allowed from staff but the rest of you can? Sad indictment of this forum.

The hehe should have given you a guess. For the record I used my 15 inch on my lap occasionally on the train. However now I have a 11 inch device that doubles as a tablet so I can use anywhere.

 

[trevmonk]

Amusement at St Albans yesterday. The 13.33 700 service arrived on time but one of the doors refused to close. After a few minutes the driver came back through the train to sort it (I heard him on the phone telling someone that he had to take a panel off). Unfortunately when he got back to the cab he was locked out. He came back down inside the train and knocked on the window to get the attention of a platform assistant before telling them to enter the cab and release the door from the inside to let him back in.

To the drivers credit he made an an announcement after we departed relating the whole story without embarrassment.

 

[Nic Robinson]

So no jokes allowed from staff but the rest of you can? Sad indictment of this forum.

Trouble is it's not a joking matter for anyone; we, the paying public, will have to endure the situation for many years to come.

For the record I can just about manage in most Electrostar airline seats because the legroom allows an inch or so between my knees and the seat in front, but on the 700s my knees are wedged against the seat in front and there isn't sufficient space to tilt the screen enough for it to be properly visible. For the record I use a 15" MBP and a lot of the work I do is graphic based which means I need the screen real-estate. For emails I use my 6+ which is fine under any conditions, obviously.

 

[Alteran Ancient]

I frequently use my 15 inch laptop on the journey in and out of London. Usually, I'm on a 375. Assuming it isn't of the /9 subclass, I go for one of the full size tables with 2+2 facing seats. A lot of people on my line do this. If I'm going to Blackfriars and it is a 377 or 387, then I can still do this. Once the 700s start work, my only hope is the rear declassified section, otherwise I will have to surrender and maybe bide my mornings with Netflix.

 

[bramling]

Trouble is it's not a joking matter for anyone; we, the paying public, will have to endure the situation for many years to come.

For me, this just about sums up the whole situation nicely.

The class 700 provides an inferior and uncomfortable customer experience, and the attitude seems to be like it or lump it.

 

[Minstral25]

Sorry but the Bedford to Three Bridges services are not being diverted away from Gatwick, the main target of the overnight services where airport travellers use them well. These services do not call at Redhill (but are often pathed that way) so it's correct those stations are getting 12 car trains. Also reveleant is Mr Sorcey was incharge of Southern services not Thameslink. I think your confusing the Gatwick to Bedford daytime services with the overnight Bedford all stations on MML (limiting it sensibly to 8 cars) to Three Bridges that links the two airports. The two are very difference and technically they over night services are part of the Brighton service group not the via Redhil one.

Reigate is not getting 700s under any current plan. In fact the recent consultation mentioned fixed formations as being unsuited. Any service serving Reigate will be a Southern going towards London, not Thameslink.

So it's not over promising but simple misunderstanding on your part as to what is being discussed.

Mr Scorey was very clear that all LBG to RDH services would be 12 car and that it referred to Thameslink as well (I actually challenged him on that exact point). It was though a potentially stupid statement that if he remained in charge would have haunted him.

You are correct about the late night Bedford to Gatwick trains. However I am discussing at the 2018 timetable plans not current situation as that is what the discussion with Scorey's statement was about

It is confirmed the intent is that Reigate will get 12-coach Thameslink trains once platform 3 is built by 2022. In fact that is why the platform will be built. Obviously it is not possible today because of the 4 car turnaround limit of the platforms and that current plans would not include Reigate with the trains extended from Redhill to Gatwick as the alternative.