Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[sarahj]

My guess is before, 1 person went round with a henry hoover and did the seats and the floors. Perhaps a quick mop around the universal toilets. Now person A does the seats with henry and a quick run on the floor to pick up the bits, then person B has to come through and mop the floor.

 

[kraiken]

Surely some industrial equivalent to a combined steam mop and vacuum cleaner (i.e. the Bissell Vac & Steam - great on wood/laminate flooring, if a little noisy).

 

[W230]

Database issue ? Diagramming (schedules) issue ?

We often have PIS code issues and they can be traced back to the wrong codes being printed on our diagrams or left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing in terms of calling patterns etc.

I've lost track of the number of PIS codes not matching what my diagram states. Is that potentially what's happening with 700's ?

As to the used to units thing. Any tips ?

I've not had the wrong PIS code since working on TL though we can't get our codes to work on Southern stock when we do the Brighton - London Bridge services. In fact the codes often don't work on the Electrostars either on that route but never had a problem elsewhere.

Today's diagram saw me working 700104 and 700108 from 3 of the four cabs. I had PIS faults showing on the HMI all three times though I *think* the announcements were still being made on two of them (it doesn't make the announcement in the cab like it does with Electrostars). I managed to manually re programme the third by working out how to enter a code direct in to the PIS (you normally set it up on the driver interface, hence no-one has a clue how to use the actual PIS hardware).

It seems just like Electrostars, the 700s don't like platform 3 at East Croydon. Where that just gives a GPS location fault on an Electrostar it seems to totally confuse the 700 and it just defaulted to it's "No Journey" setting til I got it running again. Now I think I know how to do it, if it goes down again I will do the same hopefully... I should add though that it also happens on Northbound services and on Southbound services north of the river so it's not just East Croydon that gives me grief

It's this PIS fault which I *think* makes (maybe, contributes) the first four coaches only release doors and so the driver has to do a manual override at each station hence slowing everything down. Also some drivers are more familiar with how to do this than others so delays will be different...

This manual override is different to the override done at TL core station if a stopping point is missed. Hence the confusion and difficulties for some.

 

[ComUtoR]

Cheers W230.

The front 4 default opening is strange. I'm wondering what will happen when people start overshooting in a few weeks time

Cheers again for the tips.

 

[jon0844]

My guess is before, 1 person went round with a henry hoover and did the seats and the floors. Perhaps a quick mop around the universal toilets. Now person A does the seats with henry and a quick run on the floor to pick up the bits, then person B has to come through and mop the floor.

Has anyone at GTR suggested you clean the trains yet? Or should I not mention this incase someone there reads this and has a lightbulb moment?!

I managed to manually re programme the third by working out how to enter a code direct in to the PIS (you normally set it up on the driver interface, hence no-one has a clue how to use the actual PIS hardware).

I wonder if that's where the problems are, especially if there was a recent software update and that has caused an interface problem?

I would love to know if Siemens are getting hit financially for these issues at the moment, or there's an amnesty while they're still being put into service. At some point, surely a train without working PIS (which it would be if the driver is doing everything right at 'their end') would not be fully working and whoever responsible can hit them with penalties?

I'd assume that this would perhaps speed up a resolution.

 

[bramling]

The floors always look spotless when a I've been on one (cue my next experience to be totally the opposite!).

I have to say (and, shock horror, this is by no means unique to the class 700 - although from my point of view it's a further unpleasant feature contained on these unpleasant trains), I don't understand why lino is preferred to carpet on outer-suburban trains.

From a passenger point of view, carpet is much nicer, and it absorbs/hides stains and dirt that much better. The lino fitted to the class 365 during the recent refresh always appears filthy dirty, and has done so almost from the day it was fitted. The flip side of the coin is that carpet needs to be replaced now and again to keep it looking presentable.

 

[Hadders]

They should be like some buses with holes in the floor and a pipe going outside. Then just get on and hose the floor. Simple!

I suspect the holes in the floor would take on a new role on the late night 'p*ss head express' trains...

 

[F Great Eastern]

PIS is by Televic, very reputable company and I'd have confidence they'd fix it.

Lots of stock they've done work for:
http://www.televic-rail.com/en/references

 

[Kite159]

Had another ride on 700107 today from Three Bridges to Brighton, I see what some passengers mentioned about the acceleration. That thing shifted out of stations as it called at most stations towards Brighton.

Can't wait to try one out on a good AC run away from London

As for the seats, better than the 377 I rolled into Three Bridges on

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I had my first two class 700 haulages today, and I would say:

1) Yes, they pull away very well.
2) Yes, the seats are softer than those fitted to the 377s and 387s ( although still of the ironing board design )
3) That infamous trunking along the floor at the sides is not as much in the way as some have suggested; I could comfortably get both feet on the floor normally without encroaching on the space for the adjacent seat, either in terms of spilling over into the seat itself or in terms of my feet invading the adjacent space.
4) The window size is the best on the whole National Network.

Overall - I like these a lot.

 

[jon0844]

In first class, the bigger problem for the window seat is hitting the table supports. Maybe there's an advantage in slumming it?

 

[AM9]

In first class, the bigger problem for the window seat is hitting the table supports. Maybe there's an advantage in slumming it?

I knew that there was a benefit in not having tables.

 

[infobleep]

I see the 7.46 Haywards Heath to Bedford service was cancelled today due to a train fault. In the past that has been a 700, so has a 700 failed? I've not kept up to speed on here with that's going on.

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[physics34]

I have to say (and, shock horror, this is by no means unique to the class 700 - although from my point of view it's a further unpleasant feature contained on these unpleasant trains), I don't understand why lino is preferred to carpet on outer-suburban trains.

From a passenger point of view, carpet is much nicer, and it absorbs/hides stains and dirt that much better. The lino fitted to the class 365 during the recent refresh always appears filthy dirty, and has done so almost from the day it was fitted. The flip side of the coin is that carpet needs to be replaced now and again to keep it looking presentable.

BR used a dark gray lino which, surprise surprise, covered up most dirt.... you can't really use another other colour of vinyl on flooring that will at least not look dirty albeit makes the interiors look a bit dull.

Southerns 171s and 377s are carpeted but unless they are washed more frequently they often look scruffy.

The toilet areas on a 171 or 377 use a lightish green lino which really shows up dirt badly. Experience shows dark grey is the answer.

 

[jon0844]

I find dark lino doesn't work either, as when you get people with muddy feet (or more likely in the winter months, salt from the platforms) it shows even more.

What you need is brown/salt coloured flooring. That will probably help hide vomit too. Then the train can look dirty all the time!

 

[asylumxl]

I find dark lino doesn't work either, as when you get people with muddy feet (or more likely in the winter months, salt from the platforms) it shows even more.

What you need is brown/salt coloured flooring. That will probably help hide vomit too. Then the train can look dirty all the time!

Why not adopt the DfT mindset and remove the floor entirely? No cleaning needed and significantly lower dwell times!

 

[physics34]

I find dark lino doesn't work either, as when you get people with muddy feet (or more likely in the winter months, salt from the platforms) it shows even more.

What you need is brown/salt coloured flooring. That will probably help hide vomit too. Then the train can look dirty all the time!

Yeh the salt shows up badly but at least it does look "dirty"
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I had my first two class 700 haulages today, and I would say:

1) Yes, they pull away very well.
2) Yes, the seats are softer than those fitted to the 377s and 387s ( although still of the ironing board design )
3) That infamous trunking along the floor at the sides is not as much in the way as some have suggested; I could comfortably get both feet on the floor normally without encroaching on the space for the adjacent seat, either in terms of spilling over into the seat itself or in terms of my feet invading the adjacent space.
4) The window size is the best on the whole National Network.

Overall - I like these a lot.

Disagree on most of that loooooool

I would hardly say they were "softer". I've found that the ironboard seating on the 377s and 387s has actually got softer over time.

The trucking does interfere especially over a longer journey..a problem that would be solved if the seats were 2 inches away from the side.

We can agree they are quick and the windows are good.

 

[bramling]

Yeh the salt shows up badly but at least it does look "dirty"
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---



We can agree they are quick and the windows are good.

The novelty of them being quick (and therefore having to spend less time being subjected to the uncomfortable travel environment) will wear off when the 2018 timetable comes in. Particularly during disruption, more likely compared to today of course, many journeys are likely to find themselves subject to large amounts of signal checks.

 

[W230]

The front 4 default opening is strange. I'm wondering what will happen when people start overshooting in a few weeks time

I wonder if this is a safety based default if the unit thinks you've stopped short (but is happening because it loses GPS and doesn't know where it is). It does actually show on the LCD when it has lost GPS but it's not this causing the problem but instead the default to 'No Journey' for some reason.

Can't wait to try one out on a good AC run away from London

DC is impressive but AC is, as always, better. You only have full tractive effort up to ~12mph on DC. On AC it remains until ~22mph before the motors reduce this automatically.

 

[AM9]

I find dark lino doesn't work either, as when you get people with muddy feet (or more likely in the winter months, salt from the platforms) it shows even more.

What you need is brown/salt coloured flooring. That will probably help hide vomit too. Then the train can look dirty all the time!

Maybe they should fit coir mats by the door to wipe feet on, rather than the seats.

 

[jon0844]

Maybe they should fit coir mats by the door to wipe feet on, rather than the seats.

I remember when 365s had these in the vestibules and normal carpet elsewhere.

Then at some point during the various refreshes, they put lino in the vestibules and carpet in the aisles and on others, they put carpet in the vestibules and lino in the aisles. I assume as an experiment to see what worked best.

But now it seems it's lino all the way. Nice as carpet is, I have to assume it's a nightmare to keep clean in comparison.

 

[ComUtoR]

I wonder if this is a safety based default if the unit thinks you've stopped short

That's what I've heard. My concern is what happens when you overrun ? I know you probably wouldn't open the doors but it does happen. Would the unit prevent a door opening ?

What about an out of course stop and you open the doors ? One incident that is surprisingly regular is a door opening on a red. Would it also default to opening the front 4 ?

 

[physics34]

I remember when 365s had these in the vestibules and normal carpet elsewhere.

Then at some point during the various refreshes, they put lino in the vestibules and carpet in the aisles and on others, they put carpet in the vestibules and lino in the aisles. I assume as an experiment to see what worked best.

But now it seems it's lino all the way. Nice as carpet is, I have to assume it's a nightmare to keep clean in comparison.

It's strange how.....we assume BR learnt over time that carpets on semi fast stock was not viable..... why are companies trying it now! Also the lino in the 700s doesn't look particularly hard wearing ..and lino in stock such the Old circle line trains and southern 455s started "bubbling" up over a short period.

The BR hard wearing dark grey stuff was adequate

 

[westcoaster]

That's what I've heard. My concern is what happens when you overrun ? I know you probably wouldn't open the doors but it does happen. Would the unit prevent a door opening ?

What about an out of course stop and you open the doors ? One incident that is surprisingly regular is a door opening on a red. Would it also default to opening the front 4 ?

You have a stopping window to stop in, if you miss it it defaults to the shortest platform s route 4 car.

Not possible to open at a red just like 377/87's as it knows you are not in a station.

 

[Hadders]

I remember when 365s had these in the vestibules and normal carpet elsewhere.

Then at some point during the various refreshes, they put lino in the vestibules and carpet in the aisles and on others, they put carpet in the vestibules and lino in the aisles. I assume as an experiment to see what worked best.

But now it seems it's lino all the way. Nice as carpet is, I have to assume it's a nightmare to keep clean in comparison.

I remember that too

I don't think carpet gets replaced on trains that often but it does give a far better ambiance than vinyl. The interior of the 365s since the refresh certainly feels downgraded - no doubt a deliberate ploy to prepare us for the 700s.

 

[John1975]

The first two 700/0 RLU are due into traffic on Monday replacing 4 x 387/1 diagrams.

(401)
5W84 01+04 Three Bridges Depot to Three Bridges
2W84 01.16 Three Bridges to Bedford
5G84 03+46 Bedford to Bedford CS
5G04 04+33 Bedford CS to Bedford
1W03 04.46 Bedford to Brighton
1W12 07.48 Brighton to Bedford
1W25 10.40 Bedford to Brighton
1W36 13.35 Brighton to Bedford
1W49 16.26 Bedford to Brighton
1W60 19.33 Brighton to Bedford
1W73 22.22 Bedford to Brighton
5W73 01+10 Brighton to Down Sidings

(402)
5W01 05+20 Down Sidings to Brighton
1W04 05.44 Brighton to Bedford
1W17 08.40 Bedford to Brighton
1W28 11.35 Brighton to Bedford
2W45 14.24 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W52 17.05 Three Bridges to Bedford
1W61 19.40 Bedford to Brighton
5W62 22+22 Brighton to Three Bridges Depot

 

[jaig]

The first two 700/0 RLU are due into traffic on Monday replacing 4 x 387/1 diagrams.

(401)
5W84 01+04 Three Bridges Depot to Three Bridges
2W84 01.16 Three Bridges to Bedford
5G84 03+46 Bedford to Bedford CS
5G04 04+33 Bedford CS to Bedford
1W03 04.46 Bedford to Brighton
1W12 07.48 Brighton to Bedford
1W25 10.40 Bedford to Brighton
1W36 13.35 Brighton to Bedford
1W49 16.26 Bedford to Brighton
1W60 19.33 Brighton to Bedford
1W73 22.22 Bedford to Brighton
5W73 01+10 Brighton to Down Sidings

(402)
5W01 05+20 Down Sidings to Brighton
1W04 05.44 Brighton to Bedford
1W17 08.40 Bedford to Brighton
1W28 11.35 Brighton to Bedford
2W45 14.24 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W52 17.05 Three Bridges to Bedford
1W61 19.40 Bedford to Brighton
5W62 22+22 Brighton to Three Bridges Depot

What is RLU?

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[MCR247]

12 car 700s (/1s) are FLUs (full length unite) whereas the 8 cars are reduced length units (RLUs)

 

[jaig]

12 car 700s (/1s) are FLUs (full length unite) whereas the 8 cars are reduced length units (RLUs)

Oh ok thanks for that!!

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--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I would have thought that the 700/0's are starting on the Sutton loop instead - the 30 year old 319s should go first AND THEN the 2 year old 387s

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[superalbs]

I would have thought that the 700/0's are starting on the Sutton loop instead - the 30 year old 319s should go first AND THEN the 2 year old 387s

The Class 387/1s need to go to Great Northern though, the Class 319s don't.