Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[AM9]

Did you mean to write "don't" there? Autocorrect strikes?

Thanks, I must pay more attention when using a tablet!! Fixed it now.

 

[MML]

Yes, I guess you are right. Better to have a streamlined front end (Class 700) with inset sliding doors, than open corridor front end (Class 379) with plug doors on the side.
And I'm judging sliding doors based on Class 319 vintage stock, where they always seemed draughty and would always clatter as an express passed at speed on the adjacent line.

 

[jon0844]

I'm judging sliding doors based on Class 319 vintage stock, where they always seemed draughty and would always clatter as an express passed at speed on the adjacent line.

If they're like the 395s, they'll have a locking function to stop any movement when in motion.

 

[talldave]

If they're like the 395s, they'll have a locking function to stop any movement when in motion.

Which adds an irritating few seconds to dwell time!

The lock kicks in shortly after departure. It must be technically possible for it to release before arrival (ie: a gps & speed match triggers release ).

 

[Peter Sarf]

Which adds an irritating few seconds to dwell time!

The lock kicks in shortly after departure. It must be technically possible for it to release before arrival (ie: a gps & speed match triggers release ).

Might require the train to already "know" which side of the train the doors will open on - would this be an issue ?.

Could perhaps be simpler. Perhaps it would be possible to arrange things so that the anti rattle part is unlocked at below, say, 5mph. Same would follow after departure where the anti-rattle part could come into action at above 10mph.

I am assuming that the door would still otherwise be securely shut ?. Also assuming these speeds are low enough that the train is unlikely to experience the door rattling from a passing train (certainly not on the side where the platform will be beginning to appear).

 

[asylumxl]

I'm pretty sure that's how the 395s work... You can hear the diaphragm deflating just before coming to a station.

 

[CP165]

Which adds an irritating few seconds to dwell time!

The lock kicks in shortly after departure. It must be technically possible for it to release before arrival (ie: a gps & speed match triggers release ).

The new IEP/AT300 trains use the same locking mechanism as on the 395s whereby the door is pushed against the body to form a seal, but on the IEPs/AT300s as the train slows down (5mph and under I think?) this seal is released so that the doors can open quickly when the train has stopped. It was put in the train specification which I think you can find on the DfT website.

However I don't think this would apply to the 700s as I think this locking mechanism is unique to Hitachi and would probably be difficult to apply to double doors.

 

[urpert]

I'm pretty sure that's how the 395s work... You can hear the diaphragm deflating just before coming to a station.

It's a small rubber wheel with a pivoting arm which applies pressure to the bottom of the door. Roger Ford wrote a whole article about it when the 395s were launched.

 

[asylumxl]

It's a small rubber wheel with a pivoting arm which applies pressure to the bottom of the door. Roger Ford wrote a whole article about it when the 395s were launched.

Fair enough. Always assumed it would work in a fashion similar to some of their Japanese trains. Still, I was under the impression it released before stopping.

 

[talldave]

Fair enough. Always assumed it would work in a fashion similar to some of their Japanese trains. Still, I was under the impression it released before stopping.

It's not. If you're waiting to get on, you can see the pressure on the door released after the train has stopped. I assume it's the first thing that happens on door release? Whatever the thinking behind it, it makes for a slow speed boarding of a high speed train!

 

[tsr]

The new IEP/AT300 trains use the same locking mechanism as on the 395s whereby the door is pushed against the body to form a seal, but on the IEPs/AT300s as the train slows down (5mph and under I think?) this seal is released so that the doors can open quickly when the train has stopped. It was put in the train specification which I think you can find on the DfT website.

However I don't think this would apply to the 700s as I think this locking mechanism is unique to Hitachi and would probably be difficult to apply to double doors.

For quite some time, Bombardier has been able to apply various functions to door control systems when the speed decreases to a certain level - usually around the 4-6mph mark. It's not like the idea of doors being prepared for release whilst the train is still moving is a new one. The locking mechanism may be different, but the concept of preparing for a speedier release is not something which is unique to one manufacturer.

 

[swt_passenger]

For quite some time, Bombardier has been able to apply various functions to door control systems when the speed decreases to a certain level - usually around the 4-6mph mark. It's not like the idea of doors being prepared for release whilst the train is still moving is a new one. The locking mechanism may be different, but the concept of preparing for a speedier release is not something which is unique to one manufacturer.

I was going to say earlier that some part of the door locking system is released with a clunk on Desiros as they reduce to about walking pace, (and vice versa). So if Bombardier and Siemens are both doing it already I can't see it not also applying to 700s.

 

[Domh245]

I was going to say earlier that some part of the door locking system is released with a clunk on Desiros as they reduce to about walking pace, (and vice versa). So if Bombardier and Siemens are both doing it already I can't see it not also applying to 700s.

I thought that was the door control relay activating (a similar noise can be heard on the 455s) - nothing is mechanically unlocking, it is just the electrics.

 

[trainmania100]

They sure sound a lot like 450s when departing a station

 

[swt_passenger]

I thought that was the door control relay activating (a similar noise can be heard on the 455s) - nothing is mechanically unlocking, it is just the electrics.

Ah right. It's just that it sounds very mechanical, and happens as the train slows right down; and whether the doors are going to be opened or not, e.g. at signal stops.

 

[Domh245]

They sure sound a lot like 450s when departing a station

But only on DC. They seem to sound completely different on AC!

Ah right. It's just that it sounds very mechanical, and happens as the train slows right down; and whether the doors are going to be opened or not, e.g. at signal stops.

AFAIK, it is speed activated, so that explains why it is heard every time the train decelerates.

But I may be wrong.

 

[Class377/5]

AFAIK, it is speed activated, so that explains why it is heard every time the train decelerates.

But I may be wrong.

IIRC its below 3mph.

 

[swt_passenger]

IIRC its below 3mph.

That's about right for the 5 kph I just found in a group standard.

 

[trainmania100]

Surprised there haven't been many updates on service entry :-P
Looking forward to riding one
Hopefully some notice as I'll need to book a day off work

 

[Class377/5]

Surprised there haven't been many updates on service entry :-P
Looking forward to riding one
Hopefully some notice as I'll need to book a day off work

Busy time right now with the whole cascade plan under way with 387, 442, 377, 377, 319, 321, 317, 313 and 700 fleets all involved just within GTR with all four business affected. Concentration is being given on getting it right. And that means expect no notice.

 

[RobShipway]

Busy time right now with the whole cascade plan under way with 387, 442, 377, 377, 319, 321, 317, 313 and 700 fleets all involved just within GTR with all four business affected. Concentration is being given on getting it right. And that means expect no notice.

Where are the 387/1's going to be stored prior to moving over to GWR or are they going to be repainted first, before they move over to GWR or stored?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Busy time right now with the whole cascade plan under way with 387, 442, 377, 377, 319, 321, 317, 313 and 700 fleets all involved just within GTR with all four business affected. Concentration is being given on getting it right. And that means expect no notice.

Probably best to take time to get it right before a premature entry to service that could go tits up with consequent embarrassment for GTR. Lets hope this is something they can get right

 

[swt_passenger]

Where are the 387/1's going to be stored prior to moving over to GWR or are they going to be repainted first, before they move over to GWR or stored?

The first few won't be stored, they are supposed to be in use next week on GW, but this has now been delayed until they are available.

But shouldn't this question be in the 387 thread, where the probable timescales have been mentioned?

 

[FOH]

Probably best to take time to get it right before a premature entry to service that could go tits up with consequent embarrassment for GTR. Lets hope this is something they can get right

Embarrassment is something that GTR do quite well. I'm sure they won't let us all down.

 

[Class377/5]

Where are the 387/1's going to be stored prior to moving over to GWR or are they going to be repainted first, before they move over to GWR or stored?

Your assuming plans stay the same.

Probably best to take time to get it right before a premature entry to service that could go tits up with consequent embarrassment for GTR. Lets hope this is something they can get right

Well its not just GTR but Siemens also.

The first few won't be stored, they are supposed to be in use next week on GW, but this has now been delayed until they are available.

But shouldn't this question be in the 387 thread, where the probable timescales have been mentioned?

First 387s on GWR will now be the new build units in a few months. /offtopic

Embarrassment is something that GTR do quite well. I'm sure they won't let us all down.

Well Siemens also have stake in this too.

 

[trainmania100]

Presumably they are expected to come into service on May 15th when the new timetable comes in to effect?
Paths are already on RTT with ECS moves to and from the 700 depot
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G76038/2016/05/15/advanced such as this

 

[Class377/5]

Presumably they are expected to come into service on May 15th when the new timetable comes in to effect?
Paths are already on RTT with ECS moves to and from the 700 depot
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G76038/2016/05/15/advanced such as this

Don't assume as you'd be wrong. As for that move, it could be training run.

 

[swt_passenger]

Don't assume as you'd be wrong. As for that move, it could be training run.

You can trace passenger services on Monday the 16th though.

Up Depot 5W93 > Three Bridges 2W94 > Bedford 1W13 > Brighton 1W22 > Bedford, etc etc.

Before you reply with the last word, that isn't me suggesting they'll actually run.

 

[Blamethrower]

Working in testing that I do, I'm interested to know why new trains always have such a long and intensive testing programme.

I may be wrong (it has happened before) but introduction of 387's and 377/5's seemed to be a lot smoother and quicker than the 700's or indeed the 800's.

I understand why the 800's have a long test programme as it's largely new bi-mode technology, but why do the 700's have such an intensive test programme when the Desiro is already a proven design on UK rails?

What assumptions are made and accepted when introducing new trains to a class that already exists?

 

[richa2002]

You can trace passenger services on Monday the 16th though.

Up Depot 5W93 > Three Bridges 2W94 > Bedford 1W13 > Brighton 1W22 > Bedford, etc etc.

Before you reply with the last word, that isn't me suggesting they'll actually run.

I imagine the paths have put in, in anticipation of the 700s being introduced. Otherwise, when the time comes, an STP would have to keep being applied for until the next timetable change. As has been said though, this doesn't mean 700 operation wll actually start on the 16th.