Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[Bald Rick]

Working in testing that I do, I'm interested to know why new trains always have such a long and intensive testing programme.

I may be wrong (it has happened before) but introduction of 387's and 377/5's seemed to be a lot smoother and quicker than the 700's or indeed the 800's.

I understand why the 800's have a long test programme as it's largely new bi-mode technology, but why do the 700's have such an intensive test programme when the Desiro is already a proven design on UK rails?

What assumptions are made and accepted when introducing new trains to a class that already exists?

These aren't Desiros. They are Desiro City - a very different train. The testing programme for the Class 345s from Bombardier (Aventra, essentially the next generation Electrostar) will be similarly extensive.

 

[Class 466]

I imagine the paths have put in, in anticipation of the 700s being introduced. Otherwise, when the time comes, an STP would have to keep being applied for until the next timetable change. As has been said though, this doesn't mean 700 operation wll actually start on the 16th.

Having seen the stock books for May, these are the intended paths - but as with everything, they could change!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Working in testing that I do, I'm interested to know why new trains always have such a long and intensive testing programme.
I may be wrong (it has happened before) but introduction of 387's and 377/5's seemed to be a lot smoother and quicker than the 700's or indeed the 800's.
I understand why the 800's have a long test programme as it's largely new bi-mode technology, but why do the 700's have such an intensive test programme when the Desiro is already a proven design on UK rails?
What assumptions are made and accepted when introducing new trains to a class that already exists?

Class 700 is essentially a new design, with some very specific contractual requirements for the Thameslink routes it is going to operate. Siemens also has to get full certification at EU level.
Class 800 similarly, for Hitachi.
Class 377/387 are variants of the existing Bombardier Electrostar design so they can utilise all the previous testing done for the whole range.
When the next tranches of the Desiro City design arrive (eg SWT, GN Moorgate) they won't have anything like the scale of testing applied to the 700.

I'm not familiar with the class 700 contract, but I expect most of the costs of delayed service introduction will fall on Siemens.
That's assuming all the other parties are doing their bit.
Nobody has yet said that class 800 testing is late/in trouble.

 

[RobShipway]

Class 700 is essentially a new design, with some very specific contractual requirements for the Thameslink routes it is going to operate. Siemens also has to get full certification at EU level.
Class 800 similarly, for Hitachi.
Class 377/387 are variants of the existing Bombardier Electrostar design so they can utilise all the previous testing done for the whole range.
When the next tranches of the Desiro City design arrive (eg SWT, GN Moorgate) they won't have anything like the scale of testing applied to the 700.

I'm not familiar with the class 700 contract, but I expect most of the costs of delayed service introduction will fall on Siemens.
That's assuming all the other parties are doing their bit.
Nobody has yet said that class 800 testing is late/in trouble.

I would not speak too soon about the class 800, given the last comment within the thread: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=100841&page=164

 

[trainmania100]

Bear in mind May is the last day of spring, and Thameslink have said they will start being introduced end of spring

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Bear in mind May is the last day of spring, and Thameslink have said they will start being introduced end of spring

Spring finishes on June 20 (Summer Solstice).
So they've got the best part of 7 weeks yet.

 

[swt_passenger]

I would not speak too soon about the class 800, given the last comment within the thread: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=100841&page=164

Shock horror, there's been a failure mentioned in a rail forum during a long period of planned testing.

Best cancel the whole order right now... :roll:

 

[TimG]

Spring finishes on June 20 (Summer Solstice).
So they've got the best part of 7 weeks yet.

Crickey. When does summer begin?

Dec Jan Feb = winter
March April may = Spring
June July August = summer
September October November = Autumn

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Crickey. When does summer begin?

Dec Jan Feb = winter
March April may = Spring
June July August = summer
September October November = Autumn

That's what meteorologists and maybe gardeners think (and for which the monthly/quarterly weather statistics are calculated).
Astronomers use the position of the Earth in its orbit, and spring is between the vernal equinox and summer solstice (northern hemisphere).
These dates vary a bit from year to year because of the insertion of Feb 29 in leap years (the Earth year is unhelpfully 365.2422 days, not 365 days).
The summer solstice this year is on June 20 at 2234 UTC/GMT.

Project managers also often use calendar months/quarters for milestones, so I wouldn't be surprised if June 30 wasn't in a contract somewhere (ie end Q2).
Either way, if there are no trains in service by July 1, I think we can complain!

 

[class387]

Do we have a date for when it will enter service yet?

 

[Class377/5]

**looks for a desk and gives up**

 

[absolutelymilk]

Do we have a date for when it will enter service yet?

No. Once there is, it will be posted on here.

 

[southern442]

Do we have a date for when it will enter service yet?

You are hereby banished from the forum

No news is no news, unfortunately. Shouldn't be an awfully long wait though.

 

[jon0844]

I heard they'll be in public service on November 14th.

 

[Minstral25]

Press Launch is now 24th May - cue new strike date to be announced by RMT for more egg on GTR face!

 

[trainmania100]

Todays run was cancelled due to the depot being full and no room for any more units.

 

[ScotGG]

Overwhelmed with units yet none in service. At this rate how many will they have before in passenger service?

 

[Deepgreen]

Apologies if I have missed this point, but has anything been mooted yet about the operation of the 12 car 700/1s as DOO (assuming they are intended as such)? If the unions' position is that no more 12 car DOO is to be allowed, even where 12 car DOO trains already run, then is there a problem looming with the 700/1s?

 

[Bishopstone]

I knew it was a mistake to put Sir John Chilcot in charge of the introduction programme.

 

[physics34]

Apologies if I have missed this point, but has anything been mooted yet about the operation of the 12 car 700/1s as DOO (assuming they are intended as such)? If the unions' position is that no more 12 car DOO is to be allowed, even where 12 car DOO trains already run, then is there a problem looming with the 700/1s?

Not for Thameslink drivers, but if/when Southern drivers drive 12 cars there will be an issue.

Both have different contracts/agreements.

I assume the Littlehampton/East Grinstead/Horsham 12 car 700s will be DOO. These are non-DOO "routes" so im not sure if Thameslink drivers will have to get an agreement regarding this.

 

[jon0844]

I knew it was a mistake to put Sir John Chilcot in charge of the introduction programme.

Haha. He seems to be in charge of rolling out The Key too.

 

[trainmania100]

[deleted]

 

[Deepgreen]

Not for Thameslink drivers, but if/when Southern drivers drive 12 cars there will be an issue.

Both have different contracts/agreements.

I assume the Littlehampton/East Grinstead/Horsham 12 car 700s will be DOO. These are non-DOO "routes" so im not sure if Thameslink drivers will have to get an agreement regarding this.

I can see an almost amusing juxtaposition of staff sickness and the 'FLU' signs that have appeared at platform ends!

 

[Class377/5]

Apologies if I have missed this point, but has anything been mooted yet about the operation of the 12 car 700/1s as DOO (assuming they are intended as such)? If the unions' position is that no more 12 car DOO is to be allowed, even where 12 car DOO trains already run, then is there a problem looming with the 700/1s?

Already announced that where the 700s run they will be DOO.

Overwhelmed with units yet none in service. At this rate how many will they have before in passenger service?

You'll soon know.

 

[JaJaWa]

Presumably the service entry date will be when they've managed to pull the old logos off and find something to affix their new ones.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Presumably the service entry date will be when they've managed to pull the old logos off and find something to affix their new ones.

I'm surprised nobody has asked recently when the 700s will enter service Due to congestion in the depot, there is no room to bring out the trains....

(Class 377/5 crawls under a stone....)

 

[phoenixcronin]

I don't believe this has been asked/answered before so does anyone know who voices the DVA on the 700's.

 

[MikePJ]

Interesting press release yesterday from GTR - looks like the introduction of the 700s on GN is now scheduled for early 2017.

http://www.thameslinkrailway.com/ab...reduced-or-suspended-on-bank-holiday-weekend/

 

[Deepgreen]

Already announced that where the 700s run they will be DOO.



You'll soon know.

Indeed, but have the TUs accepted this intention for the 12 car units, as it would seem to contradict their stance that no more DOO is to be countenanced?

 

[trainmania100]

Interesting press release yesterday from GTR - looks like the introduction of the 700s on GN is now scheduled for early 2017.

http://www.thameslinkrailway.com/ab...reduced-or-suspended-on-bank-holiday-weekend/

must have made a mistake
They must be entering service this year at some point, theyve been doing driver training and testing, paths are already in for them