Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[Class377/5]

Hi could someone in theknow tell me if this is likely to run?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O64332/2016/01/23/advanced
And assume it'll be a 700
Close to my insurance miles limit and really want to see it :-P

Its 387208/209 on a test run.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Its 387208/209 on a test run.

So, its true, 387/2s from 3rd rail land to Cricklewood !. Rather a deviation from their expected Gatwick Express route. Leads me to guess they might be used on Thameslink services for a while ?. I mean the 25KV AC testing is already done out of Bletchley before each 387/2 goes to Southern land so why the need to test through the Thameslink core ?.

 

[JaJaWa]

So, its true, 387/2s from 3rd rail land to Cricklewood !. Rather a deviation from their expected Gatwick Express route. Leads me to guess they might be used on Thameslink services for a while ?. I mean the 25KV AC testing is already done out of Bletchley before each 387/2 goes to Southern land so why the need to test through the Thameslink core ?.

Possibly linked to c2c's temporary trains?

Class 377/5 will be along with the correct answer shortly!

 

[southern442]

Possibly linked to c2c's temporary trains?

They are supposed to be 5-car though. I would guess that it's just testing the overhead equipment just to make sure it all works fine should it ever be needed.

 

[westcoaster]

So, its true, 387/2s from 3rd rail land to Cricklewood !. Rather a deviation from their expected Gatwick Express route. Leads me to guess they might be used on Thameslink services for a while ?. I mean the 25KV AC testing is already done out of Bletchley before each 387/2 goes to Southern land so why the need to test through the Thameslink core ?.

A test train does not go through the core for nothing, that's all I can speculate on.

 

[swt_passenger]

They are supposed to be 5-car though. I would guess that it's just testing the overhead equipment just to make sure it all works fine should it ever be needed.

The 387/2 units have already had their AC gear fully tested on the WCML though, it's why they spend so many weeks at Bletchley before arrival on the Southern.

 

[LBSCR Times]

H

A test train does not go through the core for nothing, that's all I can speculate on.

True....
For Watford & MKC read Bedford.
Remember, TL drivers are trained on 387/1's, and the difference is the paperwork.

 

[Class377/5]

So, its true, 387/2s from 3rd rail land to Cricklewood !. Rather a deviation from their expected Gatwick Express route. Leads me to guess they might be used on Thameslink services for a while ?. I mean the 25KV AC testing is already done out of Bletchley before each 387/2 goes to Southern land so why the need to test through the Thameslink core ?.

Wheres the deviation, no GatEx driver have driven a 387 yet. Thameslink driver sign 387s.

Possibly linked to c2c's temporary trains?

Class 377/5 will be along with the correct answer shortly!

Nope. Internal to GTR.

A test train does not go through the core for nothing, that's all I can speculate on.

Do you know the actual reason? Not sure I'm allowed to say why the run happened.

Remember, TL drivers are trained on 387/1's, and the difference is the paperwork.

No. And yes.

 

[asylumxl]

I wonder if they intend to extend Gatwick Express services in to the Côre...

 

[Peter Sarf]

Your getting my brain all stirred up.

I started thinking maybe there was a need to test that the 387/2s still worked on AC AFTER a spell working DC. There are only two places I can think of where the switch over can be tested the first is Farringdon-CityThameslink (on the Thameslink core) and the second is North of Sheppard's Bush (on the West London Line). I would have thought the second is less of a disruption if something goes wrong.

But then maybe the 387/2s were being used to train more drivers on 387s - possibly new Thameslink drivers, possibly drivers borrowed from non-Thameslink, possibly even Gatex drivers (as they would not know either of the above routes ?).

Whatever it is would this be the reason why the two 387208 & 387209 were at Tilgate Sidings (Three Bridges).

[/brainstorm]

 

[AM9]

I wonder if they intend to extend Gatwick Express services in to the Côre...

Well, they would need ETCS and ATO before they could, plus their performance would need to be the same as the 700s with the Accessability coaches and cycle racks in the same positions. That last one would be difficult arranging for 4-car EMUs to look like 8 & 12-car ones!

 

[asylumxl]

Well, they would need ETCS and ATO before they could, plus their performance would need to be the same as the 700s with the Accessability coaches and cycle racks in the same positions. That last one would be difficult arranging for 4-car EMUs to look like 8 & 12-car ones!

True, I forgot how soon the 700s will be coming in to service. How time flies.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I started thinking maybe there was a need to test that the 387/2s still worked on AC AFTER a spell working DC. There are only two places I can think of where the switch over can be tested the first is Farringdon-CityThameslink (on the Thameslink core) and the second is North of Sheppard's Bush (on the West London Line). I would have thought the second is less of a disruption if something goes wrong.

Don't know if they'd be allowed on the NLL to test switch-over at iirc Acton Central

 

[Peter Sarf]

True, I forgot how soon the 700s will be coming in to service. How time flies.

Maybe the 700s are going to be late or it is desirable to replace the 377s or 319s on the Thameslink route earlier than anticipated. Maybe the 387/2s are going to be available due to my beloved 442s suddenly being retained for another 20 years on GatEx [/dream].

Oh and I am working on how this fits in with c2cs requirement. Now - what was the problem again ?.

 

[Minstral25]

Maybe the 700s are going to be late or it is desirable to replace the 377s or 319s on the Thameslink route earlier than anticipated. Maybe the 387/2s are going to be available due to my beloved 442s suddenly being retained for another 20 years on GatEx [/dream].

Oh and I am working on how this fits in with c2cs requirement. Now - what was the problem again ?.

Or maybe some new Thameslink Drivers, as part of the recruitment campaign we keep hearing about, have arrived to work and Thameslink couldn't spare a 387/1 to train them. So they borrowed a couple of 387/2's that were sitting around waiting to go into service to kick off their route knowledge training or something like that. Just a guess. [Oops only saw your second post]

 

[DerekC]

Well, they would need ETCS and ATO before they could, plus their performance would need to be the same as the 700s with the Accessability coaches and cycle racks in the same positions. That last one would be difficult arranging for 4-car EMUs to look like 8 & 12-car ones!

GTR didn't like the Class 700 design very much when they were bidding for the franchise - they are used to EMUs which come in 4-car chunks - and they certainly had some ideas of running late evening and night services in manual mode with 4-car units (i.e. not Class 700). Maybe that has something to do with it.

 

[swt_passenger]

Don't know if they'd be allowed on the NLL to test switch-over at iirc Acton Central

They can test switchover in the depot.

Oh, and they wouldn't be able to get to Acton Central from the 'Southern' without having already changed from DC to AC. You really are overcomplicating this...

 

[D365]

You really are overcomplicating this...

Not much point in responding is there

 

[swt_passenger]

Not much point in responding is there

Probably. But there's a sort of educational role...

 

[Class377/5]

Maybe the 700s are going to be late or it is desirable to replace the 377s or 319s on the Thameslink route earlier than anticipated. Maybe the 387/2s are going to be available due to my beloved 442s suddenly being retained for another 20 years on GatEx [/dream].

700 would be on time.

Oh and I am working on how this fits in with c2cs requirement. Now - what was the problem again ?.

It doesn't.

Don't know if they'd be allowed on the NLL to test switch-over at iirc Acton Central

387s not cleared. Paperork as 377/378/379 have all run on the NLL.

True, I forgot how soon the 700s will be coming in to service. How time flies.

Indeed. Been a long time coming.

GTR didn't like the Class 700 design very much when they were bidding for the franchise - they are used to EMUs which come in 4-car chunks - and they certainly had some ideas of running late evening and night services in manual mode with 4-car units (i.e. not Class 700). Maybe that has something to do with it.

Nope. More on GTRs thinking will be shown in time.

 

[Minstral25]

I've been told today (by a very high level source) that the 700's will have on-board Wi-Fi fitted as standard when introduced.

How true is this?

 

[D365]

Don't know why it should surprise you. Isn't onboard wi-fi a government requirement on every train by 2020?

 

[Class377/5]

I've been told today (by a very high level source) that the 700's will have on-board Wi-Fi fitted as standard when introduced.

How true is this?

Depends if you mean passenger or maintenance version. The latter yes, former, I believe contract is yet placed.

 

[AM9]

Don't know why it should surprise you. Isn't onboard wi-fi a government requirement on every train by 2020?

So there is nearly 4 years left to sort that, - after any more pressing issues that may arise, are sorted on the introduction of these new type trains.

 

[JaJaWa]

Pretty sure Govia / DfT have confirmed Wi-Fi will be fitted to the 700s but not sure that will happen by April?

 

[Minstral25]

Don't know why it should surprise you. Isn't onboard wi-fi a government requirement on every train by 2020?

Yes but 700's were ordered before that requirement so are without currently.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Depends if you mean passenger or maintenance version. The latter yes, former, I believe contract is yet placed.

I was told categorically they would enter service with passenger Wi-Fi, so they had better get their lawyers together pretty quickly.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Note a 12 car 700 sits at Cricklewood depot as I came by just after 1600.

 

[hassaanhc]

They can test switchover in the depot.

Oh, and they wouldn't be able to get to Acton Central from the 'Southern' without having already changed from DC to AC. You really are overcomplicating this...

What about Richmond Platform 3? It appears to have a connection to both the Windsor Lines and to the North London Line, but maximum length would be 5 cars otherwise you don't clear the points (or fit in the platform). It does get used by 378s, but it is only fitted with 3rd rail (instead of 4th rail) so cannot be used by LUL trains.

 

[westcoaster]

Note a 12 car 700 sits at Cricklewood depot as I came by just after 1600.

Driver training started this week.

 

[AM9]

I was told categorically they would enter service with passenger Wi-Fi, so they had better get their lawyers together pretty quickly.

So they will have to get their lawyers together because you have been told (categorically or otherwise) that wi-fi would be there on service entry? Are you planning on taking them to court then?