Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[Skimble19]

So that Cambridge commuters don't have to travel on the class 700 'cattle trucks' and can continue to enjoy the luxurious accommodation that they have been accustomed to.

But 365s will never be used on services through the core? Not to mention they don't even have their shoe gear anymore..

 

[D365]

But 365s will never be used on services through the core? Not to mention they don't even have their shoe gear anymore..

That's the joke

 

[Philip Phlopp]

But 365s will never be used on services through the core? Not to mention they don't even have their shoe gear anymore..

The only thing the Class 365s might need shoe gear for in future is if the North Downs Line electrification proceeds and there's a Reading to Gatwick electric service which makes use of the existing 750V DC at any point on the route.

I can't imagine any scenario in which they'll use third rail on GN/Thameslink ever again.

 

[neilm]

I assume 365 are cleared so that if there are issues at king cross they can be turned around at stp? Is there a cross over north bound outside the station or in the tunnel to allow this to take place?

 

[po8crg]

Much as I'd love to see a bunch of LHCS behind a 92 doing Brighton-Edinburgh, that's never going to happen.

 

[AM9]

I assume 365 are cleared so that if there are issues at king cross they can be turned around at stp? Is there a cross over north bound outside the station or in the tunnel to allow this to take place?

The points at Canal Tunnel Junction are right at the northern end of the tunnels. Given that the tunnels are single track bores, there's no chance of changeover until the trailing crossover just before Bell Isle junction, and a facing crossover inside Copenhagen Tunnel. There are trailing and facing crossovers each way between STP and Farringdon (ZFD) which are used when there are partial core blockades as is the scissors crossover on the ramp up to Kentish Town, but there is no way that anything than a 700 would be allowed down in the core anyway.
Aside from the prohibition and unacceptable operational issues if access was allowed, if Kings Cross is so bunged up, the Thameslink trains would be the key ECML route for passengers into London, so there wouldn't be room for faffing around turning Networkers (or 377s) in the core. Passengers on those would be ejected at Finsbury Park to continue on the tube, the Moorgate line or Thameslink.

 

[neilm]

The points at Canal Tunnel Junction are right at the northern end of the tunnels. Given that the tunnels are single track bores, there's no chance of changeover until the trailing crossover just before Bell Isle junction, and a facing crossover inside Copenhagen Tunnel. There are trailing and facing crossovers each way between STP and Farringdon (ZFD) which are used when there are partial core blockades as is the scissors crossover on the ramp up to Kentish Town, but there is no way that anything than a 700 would be allowed down in the core anyway.
Aside from the prohibition and unacceptable operational issues if access was allowed, if Kings Cross is so bunged up, the Thameslink trains would be the key ECML route for passengers into London, so there wouldn't be room for faffing around turning Networkers (or 377s) in the core. Passengers on those would be ejected at Finsbury Park to continue on the tube, the Moorgate line or Thameslink.

So 365s will not be cleared then for Thameslink canal tunnels?

 

[southern442]

Much as I'd love to see a bunch of LHCS behind a 92 doing Brighton-Edinburgh, that's never going to happen.

When I become king, I will make a ruling that all London-Brighton trains will be operated by IC225's and 442's! Plus the East Grinstead services for my sake and the East and West Coastway mainline services for completeness.

Actually one of the reasons why I like the 442's so much is because they remind me of mk4 stock, it makes me feel like the BML have been given its long-awaited intercity treatment

 

[Bald Rick]

So 365s will not be cleared then for Thameslink canal tunnels?

Gauging wise, they are clear. But they won't run down there.

365s were specified, as in the dim and distant past when the Canal tunnels were specified, Thameslink 'Metro' (as it was known before Thameslink 2000, and then the Thameslink Programme) was to be operated with 365s and 319s. But we're going back nearly 25 years for that.

 

[The Box Photter]

So no Deltic from Newcastle, though Canal Tunnel and onwards to Brighton via Farringdon & City Thameslink then. Shame.

OK, how about using a 12 car Class 700 on a Sunday from Brighton to Edinburgh and back. The massive empty spaces set aside for wheelchair users could be given over to a sales stand for some sponsoring society and for the sale of "refreshments" to the haulage bashers.

I suppose that won't be allowed either because there's going to be no "Safety Case" for running them north of Peterborough.

That's the problem with today's railway, micro managed and engineered fleets that can only operate over their own part of the network. It was so much easier when all they had to worry about was the driver having traction and route knowledge and the loco's RA was lower than the track.

 

[southern442]

OK, how about using a 12 car Class 700 on a Sunday from Brighton to Edinburgh and back. The massive empty spaces set aside for wheelchair users could be given over to a sales stand for some sponsoring society and for the sale of "refreshments" to the haulage bashers.

a whole day on a class 700? One would probably end up with a nasty case of piles

 

[Class377/5]

Gauging wise, they are clear. But they won't run down there.

365s were specified, as in the dim and distant past when the Canal tunnels were specified, Thameslink 'Metro' (as it was known before Thameslink 2000, and then the Thameslink Programme) was to be operated with 365s and 319s. But we're going back nearly 25 years for that.

Ah yes the Networked Express 12 car 371s (?) With 319 8 car Metro services IIRC?

As for Canal Tunnels, you can reverse in them can't you from GN POV?

 

[Bald Rick]

Ah yes the Networked Express 12 car 371s (?) With 319 8 car Metro services IIRC?

As for Canal Tunnels, you can reverse in them can't you from GN POV?

Sure can.

 

[AM9]

a whole day on a class 700? One would probably end up with a nasty case of piles

Some would suffer anything in the pursuit of their hobby.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

On Google Earth where does the Canal Tunnels start and end?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

On Google Earth where does the Canal Tunnels start and end?

The top end is the curve just below and to the left of the HS1 bridge over the ECML here:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5403818,-0.1244817,502m/data=!3m1!1e3

The other end you won't see on Goggle Earth as it's underground at the north end of St Pancras low level.

 

[D365]

Can't remember if the photo was linked to on this topic, it was an image of Belle Isle Junction where the Canal Tunnel lines join the slow lines out of Kings Cross. You'll see them after the Copenhagen Tunnels and Holloway Flyover as you pass under the HS1 overbridge, if you so happen to find the opportunity to be travelling into Kings Cross.

 

[hwl]

A 700 delivery on its way south through East Croydon behind a 66 about 5 minutes ago...

 

[SpacePhoenix]

A 700 delivery on its way south through East Croydon behind a 66 about 5 minutes ago...

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R03093/2016/01/20/advanced

About 40mins late, will it have to stay in the platform for a while before it gets a path into the depot?

 

[Envy123]

I've been a commuter on GN since 2011 and even had the "pleasure" to ride on the smelly 313s. Thankfully, since Govia took over, the smell is hardly there anymore. And it seems that once the 700s are out the way, new trains for the Moorgate metro services would arise, though I haven't heard much about it since then.

A few points regarding the GN&C and future TL services on the ECML:

-I'm disappointed that the only London TL services on the ECML would be at Finsbury Park. I'm actually really tempted to move out of London just to take advantage of the future TL services on the ECML, even though I can afford to stay in London.

-The GN&C line is very much under-utilised in London. Hardly anyone I know is even aware of the line. I think there should be more publicity regarding the route, instead of just being tucked away in a corner.

 

[jon0844]

I don't ever recall 313s being smelly in over 10 years of usage. They've seen many franchise changes in that time (wagn to FCC to GTR).

 

[Class377/5]

700111 arrived at Three Bridges this morning on 6X66 04+23 Dollands Moor to Three Bridges Thameslink Depot.

That's 6 down, 109 to go!

 

[Envy123]

I don't ever recall 313s being smelly in over 10 years of usage. They've seen many franchise changes in that time (wagn to FCC to GTR).

Really? I felt that under FCC, the smell was very noticeable but under GTR, there's hardly any smell.

 

[asylumxl]

Really? I felt that under FCC, the smell was very noticeable but under GTR, there's hardly any smell.

I doubt anything physically changed on the trains to change the smell...

 

[po8crg]

Both TL and GN&C could really benefit from being on the Tube map.

 

[asylumxl]

Both TL and GN&C could really benefit from being on the Tube map.

That would have great benefits for TL commuters. Rammed trains certainly need more people.

 

[Envy123]

I doubt anything physically changed on the trains to change the smell...

Govia deep-cleaned the trains at the start of the franchise and the difference was noticeable to me.

Both TL and GN&C could really benefit from being on the Tube map.

This I agree with.

I find the ECML locals to be much less rammed and less people come out of the train compared to their Piccadilly neighbors.

That would have great benefits for TL commuters. Rammed trains certainly need more people.

Not sure about TL, but from my experience of the GN&C line, the class 313s at Finsbury Park in the evenings typically have enough spare capacity to at least relieve some of the pressure from the Piccadilly and Victoria Lines. I sometimes had to resort to taking a GN train to New Southgate from Finsbury Park because the Piccadilly line trains were rammed. Spreading the load between the two/three routes can only be beneficial IMO.

 

[Skimble19]

Govia deep-cleaned the trains at the start of the franchise and the difference was noticeable to me.

Pretty sure they didn't.. There was always a standard rolling deep clean programme which continues to this day. The only difference could potentially be the chemicals, seeing as most things we get have changed supplier since FCC.

As someone who regularly uses 313s there has been no difference to me whatsoever in the "smell".

Anyway, we're veering off topic. To get back to a 700 related note, does anyone know how the remedial works to allow the 700s north of St Neots are going?

 

[Envy123]

Pretty sure they didn't.. There was always a standard rolling deep clean programme which continues to this day. The only difference could potentially be the chemicals, seeing as most things we get have changed supplier since FCC.

As someone who regularly uses 313s there has been no difference to me whatsoever in the "smell".

Maybe. I noticed a difference but I think it's just me.

 

[jopsuk]

The GN&C is possibly the only line that still has a service to have vanished entirely from the tube map