Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[Manchester77]

But the Thameslink runs 377/2, 377/4 and when they are delivered 387, all of which are 4 cars.

Thameslink runs 377/2s (in southern livery), 377/5s (in FCC livery) and 387s (in the White hybrid livery)

 

[ert47]

But the Thameslink runs 377/2, 377/4 and when they are delivered 387, all of which are 4 cars.

/4s dont have pantos, however you can tell the difference between the 2's and 5's from looking at the door buttons.

@Manchester77: There are some 377/2's in FCC livery

 

[Class377/5]

Thameslink runs 377/2s (in southern livery), 377/5s (in FCC livery) and 387s (in the White hybrid livery)

Don't forget the original three 377/2 running around in FCC colours.

Edit:

Some news pictures of half of 700001 being dragged for Innotrans.


https://flic.kr/p/psKLVY

https://flic.kr/p/pqKpMw

https://flic.kr/p/psMqzX

https://flic.kr/p/pbixht

 

[neilm]

Does anyone know of any update about the rumours to improve the interior and add tables mentioned earlier in this thread?

 

[southern442]

Does anyone know of any update about the rumours to improve the interior and add tables mentioned earlier in this thread?

What rumors?

 

[neilm]

See post 726 I wondered if there was anything public about it.

 

[southern442]

See post 726 I wondered if there was anything public about it.

That was only a criticism, but there is no mention of doing anything about it. I hope something is done, because the 700's have one of the worst interiors I've seen.

That being said they are still luxury compared to the Merseyrail 142's

 

[neilm]

Seat back tables would be nice. Considering 377 & 387's have them.

 

[Class377/5]

By the way folks, a 700 sounds like a standard Desiro I'm told.

 

[physics34]

That was only a criticism, but there is no mention of doing anything about it. I hope something is done, because the 700's have one of the worst interiors I've seen.

That being said they are still luxury compared to the Merseyrail 142's

yeh was just a comment in a rail magazine by a Southern fleet bloke.

The 12 cars need to have better interiors as we know. I will not go on about it again

 

[southern442]

yeh was just a comment in a rail magazine by a Southern fleet bloke.

The 12 cars need to have better interiors as we know. I will not go on about it again

In that case then, I will , here's something I found:
There was an article in the most recent issue of Today's Railways in the Train Of Thought section about deteriorating comfort on trains. The 700's and the 387's were both mentioned, and just for a comparison:

standard class on a 700:

and standard class on a 403:

From this comparison, you can clearly see the more luxurious train. Keep it in mind that these trains are doing/did practically the same journey.

 

[AM9]

In that case then, I will , here's something I found:
There was an article in the most recent issue of Today's Railways in the Train Of Thought section about deteriorating comfort on trains. The 700's and the 387's were both mentioned, and just for a comparison:

standard class on a 700:

and standard class on a 403:

From this comparison, you can clearly see the more luxurious train. Keep it in mind that these trains are doing/did practically the same journey.

The interior comfort should be related to the average journey time, not the length of the line.

 

[southern442]

The interior comfort should be related to the average journey time, not the length of the line.

So if East Coast started stopping at Finsbury Park, and a large number of people used them just to get to Finsbury Park, their interior should be downgraded as well? I do not for one moment believe that just because a large number of people use the service for a shorter time, that the (almost equally) large number of commuters that use the line to get into the city from the coast should be made to sit on an ironing board.

 

[edwin_m]

From this comparison, you can clearly see the more luxurious train. Keep it in mind that these trains are doing/did practically the same journey.

The class 403 was the Brighton Belle unit, in which case it isn't a fair comparison. These were the top flight workings and Wikipedia doesn't quote a frequency but with a 60min journey time each way and only one set in service it wasn't exactly "turn up and go"! Presumably a suppliement was charged even in (what was then) Second.

The 700s will be the second-string services on the Brighton line, and anyone travelling more than a few stops on one (south of London) will have the option of changing onto a 377 or similar for part of the journey. While this doesn't match the standards of the Belle, some seats are 2+2 with tables.

Something similar will apply on the ECML though on the MML the only alternative is EMT's hourly Meridians at Luton or Bedford or whatever replaces them after electrification. With journey times on the three routes about the same, it seems to me the MML traveller has the most cause for complaint.

 

[physics34]

In that case then, I will , here's something I found:
There was an article in the most recent issue of Today's Railways in the Train Of Thought section about deteriorating comfort on trains. The 700's and the 387's were both mentioned, and just for a comparison:

standard class on a 700:

and standard class on a 403:

From this comparison, you can clearly see the more luxurious train. Keep it in mind that these trains are doing/did practically the same journey.

once again look at that seat closest to the window on the 700 and how much the trunking intrudes into the footspace. Very badly overlooked.

AM9 Why should a seat have to be 'less comfortble' if its a shorter journey?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So if East Coast started stopping at Finsbury Park, and a large number of people used them just to get to Finsbury Park, their interior should be downgraded as well? I do not for one moment believe that just because a large number of people use the service for a shorter time, that the (almost equally) large number of commuters that use the line to get into the city from the coast should be made to sit on an ironing board.

spot on!

 

[AM9]

So if East Coast started stopping at Finsbury Park, and a large number of people used them just to get to Finsbury Park, their interior should be downgraded as well? I do not for one moment believe that just because a large number of people use the service for a shorter time, that the (almost equally) large number of commuters that use the line to get into the city from the coast should be made to sit on an ironing board.

That's just another strawman argument. East Coast is the long distance service, Great Northern is the outer suburban/metro operator. The nuisance of passengers cluttering-up long distance accomodation by making short urban journeys is adequately dealt with by pick-up only and set-down only rules, with appropriate penalties. It's easier for a different TOC to do this as on the ECML or the WCML (VT & LM), than the 19:15 to Cardiff debacle at Paddington. That takes more spine on the part of the TOC.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

once again look at that seat closest to the window on the 700 and how much the trunking intrudes into the footspace. Very badly overlooked.

AM9 Why should a seat have to be 'less comfortble' if its a shorter journey?

I agree that the trunking looks like bad design.
Seats are designed for the task in hand, (in an environment of maximising profit). Those seats look adequate for the average journey time on Thameslink. Thameslink is a double-ended outer suburban commuter railway, and a relatively small proportion of passengers go anywhere near the full length of the services, including the Luton and Sutton Loop runs. As has been said above, TL is the second string on the BML so most passengers have a choice of Electrostars.
What happened on pre-nationalisation or MKI stock is irrelevant. Thameslink is all about volume of passengers to and through the core, something that travellers will just have to get used to.

 

[59CosG95]

By the way folks, a 700 sounds like a standard Desiro I'm told.

Motor-wise? Oh good!

 

[RobShipway]

That's just another strawman argument. East Coast is the long distance service, Great Northern is the outer suburban/metro operator. The nuisance of passengers cluttering-up long distance accomodation by making short urban journeys is adequately dealt with by pick-up only and set-down only rules, with appropriate penalties. It's easier for a different TOC to do this as on the ECML or the WCML (VT & LM), than the 19:15 to Cardiff debacle at Paddington. That takes more spine on the part of the TOC.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I agree that the trunking looks like bad design.
Seats are designed for the task in hand, (in an environment of maximising profit). Those seats look adequate for the average journey time on Thameslink. Thameslink is a double-ended outer suburban commuter railway, and a relatively small proportion of passengers go anywhere near the full length of the services, including the Luton and Sutton Loop runs. As has been said above, TL is the second string on the BML so most passengers have a choice of Electrostars.
What happened on pre-nationalisation or MKI stock is irrelevant. Thameslink is all about volume of passengers to and through the core, something that travellers will just have to get used to.

The modern seating even though meant for short journeys though, is not uncomfortable. I have from time been on Class 450, 455 and 458 for over an hour in travelling to Waterloo from Bracknell. The seats on these trains are meant for short journeys, such as Reading - Bracknell and with the 455's there is no toilet when these are used. If my journey, where over an hour I would expect something a little more comfortable, but people do not travel for more than an hour generally on any commuter trains.

 

[Class377/5]

Motor-wise? Oh good!

Yes, that what I was told.

 

[physics34]

That's just another strawman argument. East Coast is the long distance service, Great Northern is the outer suburban/metro operator. The nuisance of passengers cluttering-up long distance accomodation by making short urban journeys is adequately dealt with by pick-up only and set-down only rules, with appropriate penalties. It's easier for a different TOC to do this as on the ECML or the WCML (VT & LM), than the 19:15 to Cardiff debacle at Paddington. That takes more spine on the part of the TOC.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I agree that the trunking looks like bad design.
Seats are designed for the task in hand, (in an environment of maximising profit). Those seats look adequate for the average journey time on Thameslink. Thameslink is a double-ended outer suburban commuter railway, and a relatively small proportion of passengers go anywhere near the full length of the services, including the Luton and Sutton Loop runs. As has been said above, TL is the second string on the BML so most passengers have a choice of Electrostars.
What happened on pre-nationalisation or MKI stock is irrelevant. Thameslink is all about volume of passengers to and through the core, something that travellers will just have to get used to.

But don't you consider Littlehampton to London Bridge, Brighton to St Pancras or East Grinstead to Farringdon deserved of more than surburban seating?

 

[edwin_m]

But don't you consider Littlehampton to London Bridge, Brighton to St Pancras or East Grinstead to Farringdon deserved of more than surburban seating?

Anyone who thinks so has the option of using a 377 or something similar for most of the journey instead.

 

[physics34]

once again look at that seat closest to the window on the 700 and how much the trunking intrudes into the footspace. Very badly overlooked.

AM9 Why should a seat have to be 'less comfortble' if its a shorter journey?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


spot on!

Anyone who thinks so has the option of using a 377 or something similar for most of the journey instead.

Like it or lump it when you pay £4k a year for a season ticket? Oh ok that's nice.

 

[jopsuk]

What's the progres of the construction? When is the first set due for testing on the route itself? How many complete sets are there?

Are the 12 and 8 car sets getting different sub class numbers?

 

[59CosG95]

Are the 12 and 8 car sets getting different sub class numbers?

Yes: the 8-car trains are 700/0, while the 12-car trains are 700/1.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Like it or lump it when you pay £4k a year for a season ticket? Oh ok that's nice.

Unfortunately passenger comfort is taking second fiddle as far as TOCs go.

Portsmouth line users have known this since SWT did away with the 442s.

 

[AM9]

Like it or lump it when you pay £4k a year for a season ticket? Oh ok that's nice.

Pro rata that's about £20 per return trip at peak time. Considering an off-peak ticket is about £30 per return trip with all the constraints that come with it, the season ticket deal is worth the more ergonomic seat ride anyway.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Unfortunately passenger comfort is taking second fiddle as far as TOCs go.

Portsmouth line users have known this since SWT did away with the 442s.

Quite, the railways are now run for the profit of commercial outfits like Govia, Stagecoach et al. That's the magic of our non-competitive privatisation, in which this government has decided that passengers shall pay an ever increasing part of the cost. You had better all get used to it as I can't see it changing much.

 

[Fincra5]

I believe the seats should be wider at with armrests, even the odd fold down table for some mod-cons. There is far too much standing space, it's as if the DFt panicked. But that if only the mockup from 1 Coach is it not?

 

[59CosG95]

So, when do the trains arrive in the UK for testing?

 

[The Box Photter]

Anyone who thinks so has the option of using a 377 or something similar for most of the journey instead.

No alternative for us north of London cattle. Its class 700 or walk.

The trunking next to the window seat is a dirt trap as passengers will use it to:

1. Rest their feet
2. Attempt to rest their £5 cup of coffee (which will fall off)
3. Allow children to climb up and look out of the window
4. Deposit chewing gum/fried chicken bones etc
5. Claim for dry cleaning when their trousers/skirt etc becomes dirty because of the above

The seats aren't uncomfortable, but having no armrest or gap next to the window means they are far too close together for comfort and courtesy.

I'm fine with the wipe-clean floor and cantilever seating, but for God's sake put in seat-back flip up tables otherwise by the end of the day the floors will be awash with spilled coffee.

 

[swt_passenger]

...But that if only the mockup from 1 Coach is it not?

Not only is it one coach only, it's an especially wide gangway (hence 2+1) to let wheelchairs through from that coach to the next one with the universal toilet.

If you just wanted to prove how much excess space there is between the seats, thats probably the exact place you'd choose to stand...