TfW Class 67+Mk4 sets: trip planning/experiences, diagram updates etc

[sd0733]

Hopefully if they do have to sub one diagram for a unit it will be a different one most days rather than it always being the Swansea starter that was always subbed until recently.

The Swansea start is a fairly safe bet to run now as it goes on to form the Holyhead, the most likely diagram to be subbed is the Cardiff-Cardiff which forms the 04:35 from Cardiff and the evening Swansea (both reliably Mk4 on the old diagrams) and second most likely the Crewe-Crewe which has the 08:49 and 16:49 Cardiff to Manchester on it. All the others cycle sets around so are often first choice to run.

 

[Jez]

It is good to have 1W13 as a Mk4. However, I long gave up on that train as I can leave home at the same time and be in Manchester an hour earlier driving to Pontypool. The economics of it may change, but the M4 is nice and quiet and no worries about Cardiff connections/platform waits.

11/14 diagrams covered is still poor, though I do understand that the 197 figures are arguably worse (a bit harsh counting the number of 5-car run as 5-car when some 197s are covering other units elsewhere).

I have occasionally done similar and driven to Cwmbran rather than get the train from Neath or Port Talbot. Usually if im travelling home late from Manchester and no connection at Cardiff or if its a tight connection. But it does save me at least half an hour, even longer if there is a longer wait in Cardiff or you have to change trains. Ive not tried Pontypool and New Inn but noticed they have a new station and car park last time i went on the train and it looks better for parking. Bonus free parking in Cwmbran as well.

Yes 11/14 is still poor. Its basically 1 less every day. Sunday is the only day that has had 100% I think but there are only 2 diagrams so if they cant achieve that with 7 sets!

 

[Jez]

The Swansea start is a fairly safe bet to run now as it goes on to form the Holyhead, the most likely diagram to be subbed is the Cardiff-Cardiff which forms the 04:35 from Cardiff and the evening Swansea (both reliably Mk4 on the old diagrams) and second most likely the Crewe-Crewe which has the 08:49 and 16:49 Cardiff to Manchester on it. All the others cycle sets around so are often first choice to run.

Thats good to know for Swansea customers. Given we only have 1 daily service Mon-Sat. I remember a year or so ago the 1649 Cardiff - Manchester was often subbed with a 197. It was one of the most common (aside from the booked morning Swansea of course)

 

[Topological]

I have occasionally done similar and driven to Cwmbran rather than get the train from Neath or Port Talbot. Usually if im travelling home late from Manchester and no connection at Cardiff or if its a tight connection. But it does save me at least half an hour, even longer if there is a longer wait in Cardiff or you have to change trains. Ive not tried Pontypool and New Inn but noticed they have a new station and car park last time i went on the train and it looks better for parking. Bonus free parking in Cwmbran as well.

Yes 11/14 is still poor. Its basically 1 less every day. Sunday is the only day that has had 100% I think but there are only 2 diagrams so if they cant achieve that with 7 sets!

I had not realised Cwmbran was free - free parking is what takes me to Pontypool (old car park). Cwmbran has more trains than Pontypool.

A relevant feature for this thread is that the 16:30 and 18:30 from Manchester stop at Pontypool (as does 1W11 in the other direction for the early Mk4 seekers).

 

[Topological]

The Swansea start is a fairly safe bet to run now as it goes on to form the Holyhead, the most likely diagram to be subbed is the Cardiff-Cardiff which forms the 04:35 from Cardiff and the evening Swansea (both reliably Mk4 on the old diagrams) and second most likely the Crewe-Crewe which has the 08:49 and 16:49 Cardiff to Manchester on it. All the others cycle sets around so are often first choice to run.

Is 1W13 not on the same diagram as 1V62? Difficult to tell on RTT today but certainly they were when operated with 197s. That would send the set back to Cardiff if true.

 

[Jez]

I had not realised Cwmbran was free - free parking is what takes me to Pontypool (old car park). Cwmbran has more trains than Pontypool.

A relevant feature for this thread is that the 16:30 and 18:30 from Manchester stop at Pontypool (as does 1W11 in the other direction for the early Mk4 seekers).

Pontypool is probably quicker and easier to get to id imagine as is it a faster road once you leave the M4? Cwmbran is probably around 10-15 minutes once you leave the M4. I only did Cwmbran as they had more services stopping there and knew the car parking was okay. Its probably been about 3 years since ive done it (it was 175s not MK4s) and it was definately free back then. I prefer to take the train the entire way and always do if im staying overnight or away for a weekend. Its only the fear of mssing the last connection in Cardiff late at night that tempts me to drive part way!

 

[sd0733]

Is 1W13 not on the same diagram as 1V62? Difficult to tell on RTT today but certainly they were when operated with 197s. That would send the set back to Cardiff if true.

Not now no, 1W13 goes back on 1V39 then heads off to Holyhead a couple of hours later.

1V62 is off the set that starts in Crewe and goes empty to Manchester to form the 06:27. So ironically both of the 'new' trains are those mostly going to get covered.

 

[Jez]

Is 1W13 not on the same diagram as 1V62? Difficult to tell on RTT today but certainly they were when operated with 197s. That would send the set back to Cardiff if true.

I think they have mixed up some of the diagrams now. The 197 used to do the 0530 Swansea then the 1030 from Manchester, 1449 from Cardiff and 1830 from Manchester. But now the second part of that is a different diagram I believe.

I think they needed to mix the diagrams up a bit to achieve the 5 diagrams (on paper at least!)

Edit - I see sd0733 has answered.

I hadnt realised the 1630 Manchester-Swansea was now one of the most likely to be subbed. This was very rarely a unit before. Hope it wont happen too often!

 

[Topological]

Pontypool is probably quicker and easier to get to id imagine as is it a faster road once you leave the M4? Cwmbran is probably around 10-15 minutes once you leave the M4. I only did Cwmbran as they had more services stopping there and knew the car parking was okay. Its probably been about 3 years since ive done it (it was 175s not MK4s) and it was definately free back then. I prefer to take the train the entire way and always do if im staying overnight or away for a weekend. Its only the fear of mssing the last connection in Cardiff late at night that tempts me to drive part way!

I'll have to check next time I go, but it is certainly a quick road around the east of Cwmbran. It is slow through New Inn, but there is little traffic at 06:00.

I am not the only person leaving a car in Pontypool car park overnight. There are always a few there when I arrive in the morning. In December there were some very frozen examples.

Of course getting a Mk4 back to Pontypool was nice because of the capacity, but I don't consciously aim for them. Just depends on what time I finish work. Ironically, this will be 1V62 once teaching starts. Previously I aimed for the 16:30 if possible because the 17:30 was often 2-car and that really would be cosy and staying in the office until 18:00 is not attractive if the schedules allow otherwise.

 

[Topological]

Not now no, 1W13 goes back on 1V39 then heads off to Holyhead a couple of hours later.

1V62 is off the set that starts in Crewe and goes empty to Manchester to form the 06:27. So ironically both of the 'new' trains are those mostly going to get covered.

Thanks for this. Presumably, the changes are to allow refuelling etc.

 

[37052 xb mr]

If we are looking at working days and not including Bank Holidays or Weekends (when there are generally less diagrams anyway) then at the moment we are up to 78.5% availability (Thurs 3 out of 4 diagrams covered, Friday and today both had 4 out of 5, so of a total of 14 diagrams across the 3 days 11 were covered.

Personally I am happy to see the 5 diagrams, even if they cant always achieve that the intention is there and they cant continue to sub the early Swansea service for a unit forever.

It was actually only three & a half
Diagrams on Friday, all of diagram 1
Was a unit & 1W11 & 1V37 on diagram 2,
today was only 3, none of diagram
2 or 4 was loco hauled.

 

[Jez]

It was actually only three & a half
Diagrams on Friday, all of diagram 1
Was a unit & 1W11 & 1V37 on diagram 2, today was only 3, none of diagram
2 or 4 was loco hauled today

Thanks for explaining. So a lot worse then! A rough calculation brings it down to 68% across the last 3 working days.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Maybe the move to 5 diagrams was a little ambitious for 7 sets.

Is the plan still to move up to 6 diagrams (including the full 3 daily Holyheads) from 8 sets eventually? I assume that was the plan when TfW acquired the Grand Central sets and HD08?

I have occasionally done similar and driven to Cwmbran rather than get the train from Neath or Port Talbot. Usually if im travelling home late from Manchester and no connection at Cardiff or if its a tight connection. But it does save me at least half an hour, even longer if there is a longer wait in Cardiff or you have to change trains.

To clarify, is it faster to drive from Neath to Cwmbran than to take a through train (around 1hr 10min)?

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Today at Crewe depot (6/1/25):

67017 connected to HD01 (came in on 5Z67 from Holyhead)

67013 connected to HD06

67010 connected to HD04

67029 light engine.

 

[sd0733]

Is the plan still to move up to 6 diagrams (including the full 3 daily Holyheads) from 8 sets eventually? I assume that was the plan when TfW acquired the Grand Central sets and HD08?

It'll be a couple of years until there's 8 sets available anyway whilst everything goes through its refurbishments etc.
The last I heard was heard was Holyhead stays as is, an extra set would add resilience, fill in the missing gaps such as the 0849 on a Saturday and potentially allow a couple more Swansea extensions.

 

[Jez]

To clarify, is it faster to drive from Neath to Cwmbran than to take a through train (around 1hr 10min)?

Slightly faster to drive..it can also take up to 1 hour 30 mins from.cwmbran to neath on some trains if there is an extended dwell time at Cardiff or extra stops

 

[Topological]

Is the plan still to move up to 6 diagrams (including the full 3 daily Holyheads) from 8 sets eventually? I assume that was the plan when TfW acquired the Grand Central sets and HD08?


To clarify, is it faster to drive from Neath to Cwmbran than to take a through train (around 1hr 10min)?

55 minutes to Pontypool, though I guess it depends where you start in Neath. Wales do like 20mph limits, and of course there is a 50 on the M4 through Port Talbot and from 28 to 26 in Newport.

With M4 daytime traffic, I would estimate 1 hour 5, but I haven't tested that.

The train through Cardiff is painfully slow.

 

[Topological]

It'll be a couple of years until there's 8 sets available anyway whilst everything goes through its refurbishments etc.
The last I heard was heard was Holyhead stays as is, an extra set would add resilience, fill in the missing gaps such as the 0849 on a Saturday and potentially allow a couple more Swansea extensions.

Resilience would seem a good idea. Of course any restoration of trains across Cardiff is very welcome.

 

[Jez]

It looks like the only diagram covered by a unit today is the 0830/1630 from Manchester. Its been covered by a 2 car 197.

 

[37052 xb mr]

It looks like the only diagram covered by a unit today is the 0830/1630 from Manchester. Its been covered by a 2 car 197.

Yes, only 4 sets in service currently
So going to be same rest of week
I would expect.

 

[sd0733]

Yes, only 4 sets in service currently
So going to be same rest of week
I would expect.

And beyond.....
HD01 and 03 out for their 2 week exams ( 03 tyre turn first so will be longer). 07 will be back soon but 05 stops for a light exam on Thursday so realistically going to be into next week when there's any hope of 5 being a possibility.

 

[37052 xb mr]

And beyond.....
HD01 and 03 out for their 2 week exams ( 03 tyre turn first so will be longer). 07 will be back soon but 05 stops for a light exam on Thursday so realistically going to be into next week when there's any hope of 5 being a possibility.

Thanks,
Is set 7 stopped for exam or repair please ?

 

[sd0733]

Thanks,
Is set 7 stopped for exam or repair please ?

Repairs and tyre turning. Its due back to ATC tomorrow so on Thursday there is potential for 5 diagrams just for 1 day.

 

[37052 xb mr]

Repairs and tyre turning. Its due back to ATC tomorrow so on Thursday there is potential for 5 diagrams just for 1 day.

Thank you

 

[Topological]

It looks like the only diagram covered by a unit today is the 0830/1630 from Manchester. Its been covered by a 2 car 197.

That will be very cosy.

They really need to get the new Valley Lines trains out so that the 197s can cover better.

 

[Jez]

That will be very cosy.

They really need to get the new Valley Lines trains out so that the 197s can cover better.

Yes the 1630 is always very busy (as is the 1730 and 1830). However the 197s cant even cover their own diagrams at the moment having to constantly cover the MK4's put even more pressure on the fleet. Even though eventually the likes of Ebbw Vale will have 231's eventually, at the moment on paper they are booked 197.

 

[Topological]

Yes the 1630 is always very busy (as is the 1730 and 1830). However the 197s cant even cover their own diagrams at the moment having to constantly cover the MK4's put even more pressure on the fleet. Even though eventually the likes of Ebbw Vale will have 231's eventually, at the moment on paper they are booked 197.

Of the 197s only 1 departure from Manchester is 5-car today. A couple of 4s but far too many 2s (oddly no 3s).

 

[Jez]

Of the 197s only 1 departure from Manchester is 5-car today. A couple of 4s but far too many 2s (oddly no 3s).

I noticed that too. I was in Neath and saw the 1705 Manchester service and it was 4 car and it made such a difference. Looked to be plenty of spare seats. Rather than everyone crammed into it when it was often a 2 car.

This might be something better discussed in the 197 thread but ive noticed the shortage seems to be with the 3 cars more.

 

[Mag_seven]

Can I remind everyone that this thread is for discussion of the TfW Class 67 and Mark 4 sets.

For Class 197s please use this thread:

Class 197 (CAF Civity) trip planning, reports and travel experiences

Boarded 197114 at Cardiff this evening (delayed 2015 Maesteg service), was then informed there were faults with the train and was being taken out of service and the replacement train was directly in front of us (197124 which was originally scheduled to do the 2107 to Swansea) Was there really a...

www.railforums.co.uk

thanks

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Today at Crewe depot (7/2/25):

67017 connected to HD01

67029 connected to HD03 (went next door for tyre turning)

67013 connected to HD06 (arrived on depot as I was leaving)

67020 light engine.