TfW Class 67+Mk4 sets: trip planning/experiences, diagram updates etc

[Topological]

The 153s were probably the only thing available at Crewe to replace the failed mk4. Better than a cancellation.
Why is it 100% failure? Surely 100% failure would be no mk4s out but as far as I can tell there are 3 out.

I stated clearly

TfW would fail to run 5 diagrams on more days than they succeed in running 5 diagrams in 2025

Out of 2 days in 2025:

Day 1: Not planned 5 diagrams because of Crewe work (?), but the Holyhead was a planned substitution so no test of the 5-diagrams = 0 out of 0
Day 2: 153 substituted on the 06:27 ex-Manchester. So not even the reduced set of diagrams covered = 1 day failed out of 1 day assessed.

If you think it is unfair to say that today was a failure of the Mk4s to cover 5 diagrams because the Holyhead was already unable to be a Mk4 then that would be a tenuous defence, but maybe we can reset it to 0 out of 0. Though I think not managing to get either the 06:27 or the 12:30 ex-Manchester as Mk4 means today is rightly chalked down as the first failure of 2025.

1 out of 1 is 100%

 

[sd0733]

Thanks,
Would V31 still be a unit on Friday
Then 1W55 forming with set 2
Or which set is still at Canton after
1W11 & 1W13 ?
Cheers

V31 is down as a 67 tomorrow, bit of chopping and changing with HD05s issues found on prep this morning but should be:

67016+HD01 1V91 start and whole diagram
67015+HD02 1W59 1V50
67020+HD03 1W13 1V37 1W61 1V62
67017+HD05 1V33 1W96
67029+HD07 1V31 start and whole diagram

Unit likely on 1W11/1V37 assuming 67015s exam isn't finished in time but if it is (unlikely) it may be available for the whole diagram.

 

[Caaardiff]

If you think it is unfair to say that today was a failure of the Mk4s to cover 5 diagrams because the Holyhead was already unable to be a Mk4 then that would be a tenuous defence, but maybe we can reset it to 0 out of 0. Though I think not managing to get either the 06:27 or the 12:30 ex-Manchester as Mk4 means today is rightly chalked down as the first failure of 2025.

1 out of 1 is 100%

I think your analysis a bit over the top. Name any TOC with a mixed fleet that can regularly provide the exact traction to every service as booked?

A better analysis would be the failure to cover 1 of the 5 booked diagrams with a mk4.

 

[37052 xb mr]

I stated clearly



Out of 2 days in 2025:

Day 1: Not planned 5 diagrams because of Crewe work (?), but the Holyhead was a planned substitution so no test of the 5-diagrams = 0 out of 0
Day 2: 153 substituted on the 06:27 ex-Manchester. So not even the reduced set of diagrams covered = 1 day failed out of 1 day assessed.

If you think it is unfair to say that today was a failure of the Mk4s to cover 5 diagrams because the Holyhead was already unable to be a Mk4 then that would be a tenuous defence, but maybe we can reset it to 0 out of 0. Though I think not managing to get either the 06:27 or the 12:30 ex-Manchester as Mk4 means today is rightly chalked down as the first failure of 2025.

1 out of 1 is 100%

Wednesday & Today are only booked
For 4 loco hauled sets !
It’s nothing to do with 1V91 off Holyhead it has been a 67 both days
It’s 1V31 diagram starting at Chester due to engineering works
That has been a 197 as booked
This diagram includes the 12.30 from Manchester.

4 out 4 Wednesday
3 out 4 today

 

[Topological]

Wednesday & Today are only booked
For 4 loco hauled sets !
It’s nothing todo with 1V91 off Holyhead it has been a 67 both days
It’s 1V31 diagram starting at Chester due to engineering works
That has been a 197 as booked

Sorry I am not very good with the headcodes. In my mind the Holyhead diagram is the only one starting at Chester.

Is this because it is not possible to get the Mk4 set from Crewe to Manchester?

 

[Topological]

I think your analysis a bit over the top. Name any TOC with a mixed fleet that can regularly provide the exact traction to every service as booked?

A better analysis would be the failure to cover 1 of the 5 booked diagrams with a mk4.

The decision to have Mk4s is why there is mixed fleet.

I really want to be wrong. But with 7 sets and 5 diagrams the required availability is 71%, so it is not that unusual to expect all 5 to be covered.

My expectation we will not get 50% of days without at least one working requiring substitution or cancellation should not even be a possibility. Going down to calling a day a fail if a whole diagram is not covered would not account for failures in service, which is an issue. If we remove part substitutions and failures in service is expecting 75% of days to meet the 5 diagram target fair?

I cannot think that the fleet is meeting anyone's definition of acceptable reliability.

 

[37052 xb mr]

1V91 is the 05.27 Holyhead to Cardiff
Which has been a 67

1V31 is normally the 05.13 Crewe - Cardiff, last 2 days started from Chester via Wrexham booked a 197

 

[37052 xb mr]

V31 is down as a 67 tomorrow, bit of chopping and changing with HD05s issues found on prep this morning but should be:

67016+HD01 1V91 start and whole diagram
67015+HD02 1W59 1V50
67020+HD03 1W13 1V37 1W61 1V62
67017+HD05 1V33 1W96
67029+HD07 1V31 start and whole diagram

Unit likely on 1W11/1V37 assuming 67015s exam isn't finished in time but if it is (unlikely) it may be available for the whole diagram.

Thanks

 

[Jez]

Perhaps a better analysis would be how many of the total number of diagrams per day are MK4 - so today 3 out of 4 would be 75% covered It would certainly be interesting to keep a check on it over the year to see what the percentage is. It would be a bit unfair to give 0% on any day that anything less than 5 diagrams operarated when they might well have 4 diagrams.

Im pleased to see the morning Swansea service finally a MK4.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Today at Crewe: (2/1/25)

67010 connected to HD04 (on B exam)

67017 connected to HD05

 

[37052 xb mr]

1V91 showing as 197125 to
Llandudno Junc only !

 

[sd0733]

1V91 showing as 197125 to
Llandudno Junc only !

ETS problem on the set. It will now be stood down in Holyhead for a heavy exam and be taken to Crewe by 67017.

Tomorrow looks pretty dismal again with 2 sets available over the weekend, HD02 and HD03, operating the Cardiff starts on Saturday with HD02 on Canton start and HD03 on the Crewe start on Sunday.

Loco wise, 67016 and 67017 will swap sets in Holyhead over the weekend and 67014 after coolant leak repairs should be released and swapped onto HD07 in place of 67029.

 

[Grumpy Git]

I'm planning on travelling to Cardiff and back this month (on Saturday 25th January), and looking at trying-out the first-class option on the 9.10 TFW loco hauled/mk5 departure from Crewe on the outward-leg.

What is the set-up regarding catering on this service? Is it complimentary and also what happens if a Class 197 rocks-up instead of the mk5's, (does the DMU have first-class)?

 

[Jez]

I'm planning on travelling to Cardiff and back this month (on Saturday 25th January), and looking at trying-out the first-class option on the 9.10 TFW loco hauled/mk5 departure from Crewe on the outward-leg.

What is the set-up regarding catering on this service? Is it complimentary and also what happens if a Class 197 rocks-up instead of the mk5's, (does the DMU have first-class)?

You get complimentary tea/coffee (I believe a cold soft drink if you dont want a hot drink) plus snacks such as crisps. Depending how long your journey is you get more drinks/snacks later on. I got give a rocky road cake as well, unsure if this was usual or they were getting rid of things from the kitchen as i was late into my journey before the catering team alighted at Newport.

If you wish to order hot food off the menu you pay extra for that. They also do breakfast on certain services, something I am keen to try once the service is more reliable from Cardiff.

If a 197 or another unit subs for the MK4 you would get a refund for the difference in price between first and standard class. if you are very lucky you might get a trolley but would have to pay for drinks/snacks as you'd be getting a refund for first class.

 

[Jez]

ETS problem on the set. It will now be stood down in Holyhead for a heavy exam and be taken to Crewe by 67017.

Tomorrow looks pretty dismal again with 2 sets available over the weekend, HD02 and HD03, operating the Cardiff starts on Saturday with HD02 on Canton start and HD03 on the Crewe start on Sunday.

Loco wise, 67016 and 67017 will swap sets in Holyhead over the weekend and 67014 after coolant leak repairs should be released and swapped onto HD07 in place of 67029.

Not great for tomorrow but at least both Sunday diagrams are covered. Hopefully 197s will cover the missing diagrams tomorrow rather than 153s!

 

[CardiffKid]

Tomorrow [Sat 4th] looks pretty dismal again with 2 sets available over the weekend, HD02 and HD03, operating the Cardiff starts on Saturday with HD02 on Canton start and HD03 on the Crewe start on Sunday.

What are the start times/departures of HD02 and HD03 tomorrow?

 

[sd0733]

What are the start times/departures of HD02 and HD03 tomorrow?

HD02 should start 04:35 from Cardiff, 03 on 05:39 from Swansea

 

[MP393]

If a 197 or another unit subs for the MK4 you would get a refund for the difference in price between first and standard class. if you are very lucky you might get a trolley but would have to pay for drinks/snacks as you'd be getting a refund for first class.

You don’t need to pay for a drink/snack if you have a 197. Just show your ticket to the host. It’s not a terrible outcome as you’ll still get a free drink and snack and your refund

 

[CardiffKid]

HD02 should start 04:35 from Cardiff, 03 on 05:39 from Swansea

Thank you.

 

[sd0733]

Hopefully 197s will cover the missing diagrams tomorrow rather than 153s!

Quite unusually both down as 158s

 

[Jez]

You don’t need to pay for a drink/snack if you have a 197. Just show your ticket to the host. It’s not a terrible outcome as you’ll still get a free drink and snack and your refund

Ah thats good to know.

 

[Jez]

Quite unusually both down as 158s

Yes very unusual as id have thought all 158s would be needed for the Cambrian-Birmingham-Holyheads now given they are at least 3 of them down.

 

[MP393]

What are the start times/departures of HD02 and HD03 tomorrow?

HD02 not out now. 04:35 1W11 from Cardiff is 197009. Just leaves HD03 as the only set out now on the diagram from Swansea at 05:39 1W13.

 

[Welshguy1048]

ETS problem on the set. It will now be stood down in Holyhead for a heavy exam and be taken to Crewe by 67017.

Tomorrow looks pretty dismal again with 2 sets available over the weekend, HD02 and HD03, operating the Cardiff starts on Saturday with HD02 on Canton start and HD03 on the Crewe start on Sunday.

Loco wise, 67016 and 67017 will swap sets in Holyhead over the weekend and 67014 after coolant leak repairs should be released and swapped onto HD07 in place of 67029.

Morning @sd0733

Is there a path in for the swop of 67016 and 67017 yet? - can't see one

Thank you

Dave

 

[37052 xb mr]

Morning @sd0733

Is there a path in for the swop of 67016 and 67017 yet? - can't see one

Thank you

Dave

There both at Holyhead already,
Just 017 & set 1 will come back to Crewe at some point.

 

[Welshguy1048]

There both at Holyhead already,
Just 017 & set 1 will come back to Crewe at some point.

@37052 xb mr

Okay

Thank you

Dave

 

[Jez]

Is the 1230 from Manchester not booked as a MK4 on Saturdays? I was looking at the diagrams on page 23 and can't see that particular journey. Is it booked as a 197 as there are only 4 diagrams not 5?

 

[sd0733]

Is the 1230 from Manchester not booked as a MK4 on Saturdays? I was looking at the diagrams on page 23 and can't see that particular journey. Is it booked as a 197 as there are only 4 diagrams not 5?

No, it's been booked 197 for quite a few timetables now. Its because a set spends the weekend in Holyhead.

 

[sd0733]

@37052 xb mr

Okay

Thank you

Dave

It'll likely head up mid-week once HD04s exam is completed.

 

[Welshguy1048]

It'll likely head up mid-week once HD04s exam is completed.

@sd0733

Thank you

Dave