Storm Floris disruption - 4/8/25

[hexagon789]

So LNER nothing north of Newcastle Cross Country normal service. Sorry but the East Coast mainline should be kept open. If trees are likely to fall they should have been removed. Yes I know there is a lack of investment in lineside maintenance.

LNER have begun running some Newcastle/Edinburgh shuttles.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2025 ==

as I said, it's a very welcome development. Let's hope they keep it up in future. (post #83)

Sorry, I thought you were only talking about Glasgow to/from Carlisle and not also Carlisle to/from Preston & London.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Funny how people always forget the caveat to that, where it reasonably can

There’s no such stipulation in the PRO (1371/2001):

My reading of the terms is that “at the earliest opportunity” is effectively the “where it reasonably can” clause, but I’m not a lawyer

Reimbursement and re-routing​

Article 16 of the regulation means that where there is a reasonable expectation that a delay will lead to arrival at the final destination 60 minutes or more late, passengers may either choose to have a:

• refund of the fare when the journey will no longer serve the passenger’s originally planned purpose. The refund will include the return journey where appropriate

or

• continuation or re-routeing under comparable transport conditions to the final destination at the earliest opportunity

or

• continuation or re-routeing under comparable transport conditions to the final destination at a later date at the passenger’s convenience

 

[Lewisham2221]

Think we've had this discussion (with respect to Avanti throwing in the towel on their services North of Preston, this during times of disruption) numerous times in the recent past. No doubt there'll be some apologist able to 'explain' why it still isn't possible.

It isn't just about who signs the route, you've still got to have the train crew available.

Let's say 90% of Preston-Scotland services are crewed by Scottish crews (just an example, not an accurate figure). Where does Preston depot magic up the extra train crews to work services North of Preston if they're all already booked to work services south of Preston as usual?

It'll all be a pre-arranged contingency plan between the TOCs and Network Rail. Preston - Carlisle retains a service with TPE. It reduces the number of trains that have the potential to become stranded if the line gets blocked or the power goes. It reduces the risk of units and train crew being stuck in the wrong place. It reduces the risk of importing delays into the rest of network and causing disruption to thousands more passengers journeys, nowhere near the affected area.

People can keep throwing around terms like "operational convenience", but having units and crew in the right place to operate near normal services for the majority of your passengers is an operational necessity and good customer service for those passengers.

Added to that, like on previous occasions, Avanti are operating additional shuttles/extensions north of Preston as and when weather conditions, unit availability and train crew availability allow.

 

[6Gman]

It isn't just about who signs the route, you've still got to have the train crew available.

Let's say 90% of Preston-Scotland services are crewed by Scottish crews (just an example, not an accurate figure). Where does Preston depot magic up the extra train crews to work services North of Preston if they're all already booked to work services south of Preston as usual?

It'll all be a pre-arranged contingency plan between the TOCs and Network Rail.

I doubt the figure is as high as 90%.

The contingency plan should provide for rebalancing the north/south mix for Preston crews.

Not easy, but could be done.

(I know - I did it in the past.)

 

[esan9n]

Two instances of the 11:48 Hull Trains service from King's Cross to Hull stopping due to something being blown onto the line. The first was just before Retford, with the line being cleared after whatever it was blew off.

However we are currently sat through another incident after something else blew onto the track, this time with a track walk between Doncaster and Selby!

 

[londonmidland]

There's OLE issues at Preston, blocking platforms 4-7 to electric trains here.

 

[800001]

There's OLE issues at Preston, blocking platforms 4-7 to electric trains here.

And now lost of power between Newton and Motherwell on WCML

https://x.com/networkrailscot/status/1952364306508456249?s=46&t=JLp3J2Up_Gl_m9cQz-au6w

There's a loss of power to the overhead lines between Newton and Motherwell on the West Coast Main Line. This is affecting services through this area.

 

[deep south]

Also problems in the Doncaster area, either overhead line damage and/or tree on the line. On the Grand Central due to leave at 14:08 from York but still at the platform and nothing moving in either direction for a while now.

 

[800001]

Also problems in the Doncaster area, either overhead line damage and/or tree on the line. On the Grand Central due to leave at 14:08 from York but still at the platform and nothing moving in either direction for a while now.

I do hope the people who moan about line closures, speed restrictions etc who are now delayed/stuck on a train somewhere do not moan at all about the delay to the journey caused by these weather related issues

Lner platform screens states ' services may be disrupted after York due to an obstruction on the track between York and Doncaster'.

Looks to be just after Temple Hirst junction.
Either 1Y86 is involved, or is examining the line.(edit 1500 1Y86 moving slowly)
Lumo 1E84 at a red light at Temple Hirst.

Edit 1502 - services departing from York south onto ECML.

 

[londonmidland]

A squall line is/has passing through areas of the Midlands and further south, so there may be further issues.

 

[Andymo]

Doncaster had 20mph winds forecast and no weather warning so it’s not relevant to a discussion of preemptive cancellations. It’s one of those things that is unforeseen. The other issues are mainly in amber warning areas which I think most people would say probably warrant restrictions on services or certainly proper consideration.There’s no moaning but passengers and others are raising questions of how some TOCs have taken disproportionate preemptive action without reference to their duties as a public service. Nobody expects no disruption in severe weather, and thanks to XC, Northern and Scotrails actions many people have been able to complete their journey on the East Coast today.
Of course the wider debate is about the resilience and maintenance of our infrastructure and longer term passengers are also entitled to a view on that.I would say broadly we should be yellow alert resilient-there are many, many of them in a year.

 

[_toommm_]

There's a small queue of trains gathering south of Retford. Something caught in the OHLE? There's also a rescue locomotive running as 0Z99 running south past the area too.

 

[bramling]

A squall line is/has passing through areas of the Midlands and further south, so there may be further issues.

That squall is likely to be quite nasty given how blustery it already is here, and that’s down south which doesn’t even have a warning. Currently stretches in a fairly straight line from Cardiff up through Birmingham and Leicester to Hull, but looking likely it could reach as far south as the Home Counties as it moves across.

 

[Haywain]

Doncaster had 20mph winds forecast and no weather warning so it’s not relevant to a discussion of preemptive cancellations.

The thread is about storm related disruption, so it's very relevant.

 

[Dryce]

I do hope the people who moan about line closures, speed restrictions etc who are now delayed/stuck on a train somewhere do not moan at all about the delay to the journey caused by these weather related issues

I think in general if the operators are making an attempt to run a service then under the circumstances passengers are likely to be rather more phlegmatic about the delay aspect. Any time I have been on a weather affected service I've been glad that it's getting me to my destination.

In terms of general resilience while electrification of main routes has had many benefits - it does seem that it is a major factor in reducing resilience in these sorts of conditions.

 

[Jimini]

There's a small queue of trains gathering south of Retford. Something caught in the OHLE? There's also a rescue locomotive running as 0Z99 running south past the area too.

There's another four at / approaching Newark as well now.

 

[Andymo]

The thread is about storm related disruption, so it's very relevant.

Not to specifically preemptive cancellations it isn’t. Of course it is to the current situation for travellers and the broader scope of this thread. Unless you are suggesting Doncaster-York should have had restrictions without a weather warning in place that is.
I totally agree passengers are phlegmatic about delays in obvious adverse conditions.

 

[800001]

There's a small queue of trains gathering south of Retford. Something caught in the OHLE? There's also a rescue locomotive running as 0Z99 running south past the area too.

Looks to be affecting both lines as 1A34 is in section next to 1S17.

 

[D1537]

Fault with the barriers on a level crossing between Newark and Retford, apparently.

Edit: although now moving southbound but not northbound, so may be something more. 1D16 KX-Harrogate has gone via Gainsborough.

 

[londonmidland]

'An object caught in the overhead electric wires' is the other issue between Newark and Doncaster. More specifically it's a plastic sheet which has got caught on the OLE.

 

[ChrisC]

It’s clear blue skies here now in Nottinghamshire but this last half hour it’s been far windier than it was around lunchtime when we had heavy rain. Wind speeds of around 40mph were forecast for around lunchtime but it seems far worse now even though the forecast is saying only 20mph winds. I’m not surprised about problems between Newark and Retford with these gusts of wind this afternoon.

 

[GuyGibsonVC]

I done Morpeth - Doncaster and back today without any issues. No reservations on the LNER coming back but not too busy.

Looks like I was lucky with the winds coming later in the day.

Had a smile to myself when at Newcastle the 1435 CrossCountry to Edinburgh arrival was announced and was followed immediately by a Do Not Travel north of Newcastle warning.

 

[jkkne]

Yes for the abuse they often get on here, congratulations and thanks to Cross Country (and ironically Arriva buses) who were able to keep Northumberland moving today when LNER downed tools

 

[mikeg]

I'm travelling on the 1616 ex-Leeds having meant to be on the 1515, which is still showing as running but no ETA and therefore delayed by over an hour so they can go PRO off if they have any problems with that. I'm hoping for not too many residual delays as I really want to make my ferry in Portsmouth! (Edit: The 1515 has now been cancelled anyway. Kinda thought it would be).

 

[Wyrleybart]

Beautiful sunshine and gentle breezes here in South Staffs

 

[Spartacus]

Northern's approach looks a bit odd. Looks like one or two full rolling stock diagrams are cancelled across Airedale and Wharfedale lines for most of the day, all other services on those line run including Morecambe and Carlisle services. Then in the evening peak three consecutive Leeds - Skipton services are cancelled, but no Leeds - Ilkley services - they must have a very accurate forecast! Source is Northern Journey Check.

All this is attributed to the weather, though it looks a bit like a crew or stock shortage...

it’s down to the weather to provide some resilience in case of any issues, with so many services the ‘triangle’ is prone to getting a bit log-jammed when things go wrong, thinning out in advance helps prevent that.

 

[GordonT]

I done Morpeth - Doncaster and back today without any issues. No reservations on the LNER coming back but not too busy.

Looks like I was lucky with the winds coming later in the day.

Had a smile to myself when at Newcastle the 1435 CrossCountry to Edinburgh arrival was announced and was followed immediately by a Do Not Travel north of Newcastle warning.

Were/are LNER ticket holders able to utilise the north of Newcastle Cross Country services?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

With XC attempting to run to Edinburgh and Scotrail running normally to Nth Berwick/Dunbar its going to be interesting to see whether GBR will take a consistent network wide approach.

 

[GuyGibsonVC]

Were/are LNER ticket holders able to utilise the north of Newcastle Cross Country services?

I have no idea. I know LNER were not taking CrossCountry as Guard said it at every station we stopped at on the way down.

My friend is getting the Northern Chathill service to Alnmouth.

 

[trainophile]

I'm travelling on the 1616 ex-Leeds having meant to be on the 1515, which is still showing as running but no ETA and therefore delayed by over an hour so they can go PRO off if they have any problems with that. I'm hoping for not too many residual delays as I really want to make my ferry in Portsmouth! (Edit: The 1515 has now been cancelled anyway. Kinda thought it would be).

Are you sure the ferries are running?