Storm Floris disruption - 4/8/25

[Benjwri]

Just been told by some lovely TPE staff at Waverley that I really should have known better than to travel today, because the weather warning has been out since yesterday evening.

Told them that I didn't know about the weather warning before I came up for the fringe on Friday.

Anyway I'm told to travel tomorrow, no provision for any accommodation overnight for stranded travellers due to cancellations, or for alternate travel.
Also no ticket acceptance on Xc.

Meanwhile Xc running on schedule as normal.

Do these protections not apply for bad weather/stranded travellers? Or are they telling porkies?

TPE have stranded you, any TOC is obliged to help you with rerouting, alternative transport or accommodation under NRCoT 28.2. Declaring do not travel does not relieve them from their obligation. I would try asking a CrossCountry TM or at the ticket office, failing that ask TPE on social media or some way you can get their refusal in writing, then make your own arrangement and claim it back from them. This unfortunately may encounter a fair bit of resistance but your rights are very clear here.

 

[jkkne]

Northern's website and app being particularly unhelpful.

Reports Severe Disruption on Tyne Valley, Ashington and Northumberland lines but so far - absolutely everything is running to time - gusts have been downgraded to around 50mph in most of the North East (touching 57mph in some more exposed Northumberland countryside) but nothing outrageous

The Shields Ferry got a great tailwind this morning!

 

[thealexweb]

TPE should secure ticket acceptable with Scotrail/Avanti no? if Avanti are running Glasgow shuttles.

 

[mpthomson]

It was mentioned that the western coastal areas of the English yellow warning would be at risk, so how will Northern view the Cumbrian Coast Line?

The most exposed sections along the cliffs are closed already due to the Bransty tunnel being closed. The line south of Sellafield and north of Workington is nothing like as exposed.

 

[hexagon789]

But surely Preston crews work to Glasgow/Edinburgh?
TPE also have different arrangements which include Carlisle.
So if the weather allows, some service north of Preston should be feasible, if only to Carlisle.

Think we've had this discussion (with respect to Avanti throwing in the towel on their services North of Preston, this during times of disruption) numerous times in the recent past. No doubt there'll be some apologist able to 'explain' why it still isn't possible.

Well, who's crewing them I don't know, but Avanti are running some Glasgow/Carlisle shuttles - the next one is at 1038: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:01597/2025-08-04/detailed

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

TPE have stranded you, any TOC is obliged to help you with rerouting, alternative transport or accommodation under NRCoT 28.2. Declaring do not travel does not relieve them from their obligation. I would try asking a CrossCountry TM or at the ticket office, failing that ask TPE on social media or some way you can get their refusal in writing, then make your own arrangement and claim it back from them. This unfortunately may encounter a fair bit of resistance but your rights are very clear here.

Funny how people always forget the caveat to that, where it reasonably can.

Given the number of very popular activities and events in Edinburgh at the moment, (Tattoo in particular) and the number of passengers who will be displaced from airlines and of course, railways etc - I suspect it's likely not very reasonable, and certainly impractical.

However, if you can find your own accommodation that is fairly priced, I'd expect the original operator to pay due consideration to reimbursing it afterwards.

 

[Benjwri]

Funny how people always forget the caveat to that, where it reasonably can.

Given the number of very popular activities and events in Edinburgh at the moment, (Tattoo in particular) and the number of passengers who will be displaced from airlines and of course, railways etc - I suspect it's likely not very reasonable, and certainly impractical.

However, if you can find your own accommodation that is fairly priced, I'd expect the original operator to pay due consideration to reimbursing it afterwards.

A quick look at hotels shows there are plenty. As mentioned by the poster I replied to CrossCountry are still operating south, and they could’ve also been allowed to travel to Glasgow and get an Avanti shuttle.

The railway absolutely could’ve reasonably unstranded them, at zero cost to itself even, and the fact they didn’t is an appalling dereliction of their legal obligations.

 

[The exile]

Funny how people always forget the caveat to that, where it reasonably can.

That should be applied to places like Dingwall at midnight, not Edinburgh at 10 in the morning. Trains are running so where it reasonably can should not be confined to Edinburgh - but anywhere that can be reached from there - preferably in the passenger’s intended direction of travel (which I accept if that’s to Carlisle via Carstairs isn’t going to be much).

 

[Huntergreed]

Funny how people always forget the caveat to that, where it reasonably can.

Given the number of very popular activities and events in Edinburgh at the moment, (Tattoo in particular) and the number of passengers who will be displaced from airlines and of course, railways etc - I suspect it's likely not very reasonable, and certainly impractical.

However, if you can find your own accommodation that is fairly priced, I'd expect the original operator to pay due consideration to reimbursing it afterwards.

There’s no such stipulation in the PRO (1371/2001):

Reimbursement and re-routing​

Article 16 of the regulation means that where there is a reasonable expectation that a delay will lead to arrival at the final destination 60 minutes or more late, passengers may either choose to have a:

• refund of the fare when the journey will no longer serve the passenger’s originally planned purpose. The refund will include the return journey where appropriate

or

• continuation or re-routeing under comparable transport conditions to the final destination at the earliest opportunity

or

• continuation or re-routeing under comparable transport conditions to the final destination at a later date at the passenger’s convenience

(https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...-and-obligations#reimbursement-and-re-routing)

Provided that trains are running (via any route) then the passenger is explicitly entitled to rerouting under comparable conditions at the earliest opportunity.

Many TOC’s seem to pretend this legislation does not apply to them so, if permission is not granted from staff, it’s probably necessary to buy a ticket valid via this route and claim it back afterwards. You are, however, entitled to a full reimbursement.

Additionally, if TPE refuse any form of rerouting today, then you are fully entitled under the PRO to be reimbursed for any “necessary” hotel accommodation (which would absolutely be necessary if travel is being denied for the remainder of the day).

Again, I would imagine you’ll have to pay for this and then claim this back from the TOC afterwards.

It does state “where physically possible”, however provided there is accommodation available in Edinburgh this would fulfil this condition I imagine.

Assistance to passengers in the event of delays (such as meals, possible alternative travel and hotel accommodation)​

As set out in article 18, in the event of a delay, passengers must be kept informed of the situation by the railway undertaking or by the station manager including current estimated departure and arrival times as soon as such information is available.

In the case of delays over 60 minutes, the passenger shall be offered free of charge:

1. meals and refreshments in reasonable relation to the waiting time if these are available on the train or station or can be reasonably[footnote 1] supplied
2. hotel or other accommodation and transport between the station and the accommodation in cases where a stay of one or more nights becomes necessary, when physically possible
3. transport from the train to the station if the train is blocked on the track, to an alternative departure point or the final destination of the service, where physically possible

Where the railway service cannot be provided, the railway undertakings shall provide alternative transport as soon as possible.

Where there is disruption, the railway undertaking shall certify the same on the ticket when requested by the passenger.

When discharging these duties, the railway undertaking shall pay particular attention to the needs of people with a disability and others with reduced mobility.

(https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...2007-on-rail-passengers-right-and-obligations)

 

[800001]

Just been told by some lovely TPE staff at Waverley that I really should have known better than to travel today, because the weather warning has been out since yesterday evening.

Told them that I didn't know about the weather warning before I came up for the fringe on Friday.

Anyway I'm told to travel tomorrow, no provision for any accommodation overnight for stranded travellers due to cancellations, or for alternate travel.
Also no ticket acceptance on Xc.

Meanwhile Xc running on schedule as normal.

Do these protections not apply for bad weather/stranded travellers? Or are they telling porkies?

Tbf BBC news had the weather warning out during the course of last week prior to Friday, and certainly before today.

I read about weather warning last Thursday and as such made alternative plans for my travels today.

You could have travelled home yesterday, all over news, twitter etc that train tickets would have been accepted.

I've said it before personnal responbility comes into it.

 

[sambolino]

Thanks all. Shouldnt have been stranded was my understanding also.

Avanti staff also told me to buy a new ticket.

Ended up buying jumping the gun and buying a new xc walkup fare as advised, and going via Newcastle.
Once on the train announcer said there is actually ticket acceptance to Newcastle contrary to what TPE staff said.

Unfortunately I didnt get anything in writing or manage to speak to an xc train manager about it, so will try and argue my case but unsure how successful we are likely to be.

 

[Benjwri]

Tbf BBC news had the weather warning out during the course of last week prior to Friday, and certainly before today.

I read about weather warning last Thursday and as such made alternative plans for my travels today.

You could have travelled home yesterday, all over news, twitter etc that train tickets would have been accepted.

I've said it before personnal responbility comes into it.

Means nothing if the TOCS didn’t announce ticket acceptance till yesterday afternoon when they OP might not have been in a position to make their journey, either through their not being enough time, or that other TOCs further in the journey were not accepting tickets for travel today yesterday.

The railway cannot charge £200 for walk up tickets and expect people to drop that amount because the railway wants them to travel the day before their ticket instead.

 

[sambolino]

Thats fair. Avanti trains were showing as running to carlisle today as late as 9pm last night, though.

 

[Andymo]

Totally agree and Edinburgh only had a yellow warning on Friday amended to amber yesterday. Having been in Berwick and Newcastle today, XC and Lumo running, and having in person reports of conditions between Berwick and Edinburgh I can see no reason to suspend any ECML services between the two. Fair enough north of that where it is a more significant storm

 

[sambolino]

edit: Double Post

 

[jkkne]

Totally agree and Edinburgh only had a yellow warning on Friday amended to amber yesterday. Having been in Berwick and Newcastle today, XC and Lumo running, and having in person reports of conditions between Berwick and Edinburgh I can see no reason to suspend any ECML services between the two. Fair enough north of that where it is a more significant storm

Yes it's a typical early autumn late spring day really in Northumberland
We've got circa 40mph gusts this morning in Morpeth - though they are infequent - the peak seems to be around 5pm when they hit low 50s
More convenience for LNER to mass cancel as ever

 

[Bill57p9]

Credit where it is due: CS ran almost a full service last night (southbound Aberdeen cancelled due to staffing).
They all arrived early too (even against their original timings)

 

[800001]

Yes it's a typical early autumn late spring day really in Northumberland
We've got circa 40mph gusts this morning in Morpeth - though they are infequent - the peak seems to be around 5pm when they hit low 50s
More convenience for LNER to mass cancel as ever

It really isn't 'mass convenience' for LNER to mass cancel.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2025 ==

The first tree down, (that I've seen on X), attached below with image

https://x.com/networkrailscot/status/1952313035751674151?s=46&t=JLp3J2Up_Gl_m9cQz-au6w

We're dealing with a fallen tree that's affecting the Glasgow Queen Street - Cumbernauld route. Our response team in the area are on their way to deal with this now.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2025 ==

And another

https://x.com/networkrailscot/status/1952313777778491457?s=46&t=JLp3J2Up_Gl_m9cQz-au6w

We have a fallen tree resting on the overhead wires at Cornton level crossing, near Stirling. It’s blocking both tracks, and our team are on their way to remove this as quickly as we can.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2025 ==

Loss of power now to overheads at Paisley Gilmour

https://x.com/networkrailscot/status/1952293302201455026?s=46&t=JLp3J2Up_Gl_m9cQz-au6w

We’re responding to a loss of power to the overhead wires between Paisley Gilmour Street and Lochwinnoch, which affects @ScotRail services between Glasgow Central and Ayrshire.

We'll share another update soon - wind speeds in the area are increasing. #StormFloris

 

[30907]

Well, who's crewing them I don't know, but Avanti are running some Glasgow/Carlisle shuttles - the next one is at 1038: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:01597/2025-08-04/detailed

Presumably Glasgow crews working to Carlisle and Preston crews likewise - a very sensible arrangement IMO as it reduces the risk of strandedcrews/units (and passengers).
It's about 20% normal capacity on the WC and similar on the EC with basically only XC running (diesel of course)

 

[Andymo]

Get an Uber or a bus. There’s more options these days for people who really need to travel and they can make a choice
Lumo are running as are Scotrail to Dunbar ( on electric obviously), but LNER can’t provide 1tph past Newcastle? Or even coordinate with TPE to do so (on diesel if that’s an issue)?

 

[800001]

And another at Giffnoch, tweet attached, picture including showing a tree fallen onto a railway line.

https://x.com/networkrailscot/status/1952321723585396856?s=46&t=JLp3J2Up_Gl_m9cQz-au6w

We’ve removed these fallen trees from the tracks at Giffnock, which have damaged our fencing. The team are now heading for Summerston, where a fallen tree is blocking the line there.

 

[hexagon789]

Presumably Glasgow crews working to Carlisle and Preston crews likewise - a very sensible arrangement IMO as it reduces the risk of strandedcrews/units (and passengers).
It's about 20% normal capacity on the WC and similar on the EC with basically only XC running (diesel of course)

Something like that. Seems to be a two-hourly shuttle. One at 1240 advertised on the boards and another one is listed on JourneyCheck at 1434.

Certainly there's a Pendolino in Plat 1 at Glasgow Central just now and they've set up a queue with barriers.

 

[AndrewE]

Something like that. Seems to be a two-hourly shuttle. One at 1240 advertised on the boards and another one is listed on JourneyCheck at 1434.

Certainly there's a Pendolino in Plat 1 at Glasgow Central just now and they've set up a queue with barriers.

a very welcome development: let's hope Avanti adopt this strategy in similar circumstances in future. Maybe the complaints about Avanti throwing in the towel N of Preston at the slightest opportunity have been heard at GBR HQ...

 

[800001]

a very welcome development: let's hope Avanti adopt this strategy in similar circumstances in future. Maybe the complaints about Avanti throwing in the towel N of Preston at the slightest opportunity have been heard at GBR HQ...

Or maybe they are constantly monitoring the latest weather models and between Avanti and NR have decided that it is safe to operate these trains, which I believe are restricted to 50mph for a large part of the journey down to Carlisle?

 

[Haywain]

Maybe the complaints about Avanti throwing in the towel N of Preston at the slightest opportunity have been heard at GBR HQ...

Until GBR actually exists, and controls the West Coast operation, it won't matter if they are heard there - wherever it is.

 

[Narrowgauge725]

So LNER nothing north of Newcastle Cross Country normal service. Sorry but the East Coast mainline should be kept open. If trees are likely to fall they should have been removed. Yes I know there is a lack of investment in lineside maintenance.

 

[hexagon789]

Or maybe they are constantly monitoring the latest weather models and between Avanti and NR have decided that it is safe to operate these trains, which I believe are restricted to 50mph for a large part of the journey down to Carlisle?

Correct, approximately one hour delay expected on these services due to speed restrictions.

 

[AndrewE]

Until GBR actually exists, and controls the West Coast operation, it won't matter if they are heard there - wherever it is.

well, whoever the paymaster is this week then. If TPE can run from the south to Carlisle it's unacceptable that Avanti are allowed to abandon the service.

 

[hexagon789]

well, whoever the paymaster is this week then. If TPE can run from the south to Carlisle it's unacceptable that Avanti are allowed to abandon the service.

But they are running to/from Carlisle?

As with Glasgow, approximately two-hourly.

 

[AndrewE]

But they are running to/from Carlisle?

As with Glasgow, approximately two-hourly.

as I said, it's a very welcome development. Let's hope they keep it up in future. (post #83)