Stagecoach Takeover Discussion

[Bletchleyite]

Because NatEx have very few local bus operations I can't see much that would be an issue. Certainly not Manchester, nor Birmingham as Stagecoach have tended to stay out of that.

Conventional monopolies investigation might suggest one operator controlling vast swathes of the country to be anticompetitive, but in a commercial market it is really not, as say Tesco's national reach isn't really relevant when deciding which local supermarket to shop at, more relevant is what is there locally in each town.

 

[MotCO]

There has been too many odd things going on, like National Express selling off Dundee

That's a good point. I did think that was a bit unexpected. Now we know why!

what will the new company be called?

I don't care, providing they get rid of the current insipid Stagecoach liveries!

 

[Bletchleyite]

As for a name "National Stagecoach" does actually have quite a nice ring to it, though I'm sure such considerations are a long way down the line.

 

[Robertj21a]

As for a name "National Stagecoach" does actually have quite a nice ring to it, though I'm sure such considerations are a long way down the line.

Perhaps they should paint vehicles white, with red and blue stripes......

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Perhaps they should paint vehicles white, with red and blue stripes......

Or red, or green, depending on location....

I wouldn't be expecting too much change in the short to medium term.

 

[317 forever]

Derby?

It could be. A few similar places I can think of include Norwich, Southend, Bournemouth, Reading and Warrington.

 

[Simon75]

Would have thought either Nation Express or Stagecoach , would have tried to takeover Arriva with DB (Deutsche Bahn), planning to sell it off

 

[Robertj21a]

Or red, or green, depending on location....

I wouldn't be expecting too much change in the short to medium term.

They could always have a short-lived blue livery too....

 

[Aictos]

Personally while I'm used to the Stagecoach livery with the beach ball logo, I do like the liveries that National Express has used in the West Midlands with Silver for the more premium routes and red for the non premium routes.

As to tickets, would the group if it goes ahead bring in a policy of exact change only as is the case in the West Midlands which would speed up boarding at various Stagecoach operations by not having the driver have to deal with cash but offer exact change only or smart ticketing such as contactless?

 

[carlberry]

They could always have a short-lived blue livery too....

It lasted 7 years! Plus Yellow for Tyneside of course.

 

[Mikey C]

As for a name "National Stagecoach" does actually have quite a nice ring to it, though I'm sure such considerations are a long way down the line.

National Express for coaches
National Bus Company for buses

 

[GusB]

Personally while I'm used to the Stagecoach livery with the beach ball logo, I do like the liveries that National Express has used in the West Midlands with Silver for the more premium routes and red for the non premium routes.

As to tickets, would the group if it goes ahead bring in a policy of exact change only as is the case in the West Midlands which would speed up boarding at various Stagecoach operations by not having the driver have to deal with cash but offer exact change only or smart ticketing such as contactless?

I don't think the exact-fare issue is a major consideration at the moment, and will probably be left up to the individual operating companies to decide. It wouldn't work in the more rural areas in which Stagecoach currently operate.

 

[Ken H]

I don't think the exact-fare issue is a major consideration at the moment, and will probably be left up to the individual operating companies to decide. It wouldn't work in the more rural areas in which Stagecoach currently operate.

I think exact fare is a real disincentive to bus use. Especially if finding out the fare is nearly impossible. And how would it works with fares over £5. can you put fivers in a farebox. (Harsop - Kirkstone Inn in Cumbria is £5. for 3 miles. Stagecoach)

 

[WM Bus]

I don't think the exact-fare issue is a major consideration at the moment, and will probably be left up to the individual operating companies to decide. It wouldn't work in the more rural areas in which Stagecoach currently operate.

Johnsons in Warwickshire have exact fare only I think now. As they don't give change. An operator who serve rural areas.
No fare boxes on them though.
And you can put £5 note in the fare box @Ken H

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think exact fare is a real disincentive to bus use. Especially if finding out the fare is nearly impossible. And how would it works with fares over £5. can you put fivers in a farebox. (Harsop - Kirkstone Inn in Cumbria is £5. for 3 miles. Stagecoach)

Yes, you can put notes in a farebox.

But I can't imagine them bothering to pay out for fareboxes when cash is very much on the way out anyway.

 

[WM Bus]

But I can't imagine them bothering to pay out for fareboxes when cash is very much on the way out anyway.

In the West Mids certain fares you can only get with cash I think, concessionary pass £1 ticket, child fares, etc. I think, don't know about other places.
@Aictos currently blue for Coventry, red for NX West Mids, grey for platinum and Dundee was green. Will gold become platinum as well?
In regards to Coventry/Warwickshire, perhaps some consolidation/simplifying of routes perhaps, patcularly where both operators run the same service.

 

[GusB]

Let's not get sidetracked by the exact-fare question. As I said, it's a minor consideration at the moment and not really on-topic for this thread.

 

[Ken H]

Is Coventry really a competition issue? Out of town buses only seem to go to Leamington, Rugby and Nuneaton really.

 

[Aictos]

The other thing I disagree on is the potential name, I doubt it be National Stagecoach more like Stagecoach part of the National Express group or National Express part of the National Express group either that or the current brands will remain but be under the leadership of the National Express group.

 

[carlberry]

Is Coventry really a competition issue? Out of town buses only seem to go to Leamington, Rugby and Nuneaton really.

As others have said it sounds like the bid has already gone thorough the competition hoop, however previous rulings were not about how the companies were separated or if they actually competed but the effect on competition in the area, especially for local authority contracts. i.e. Coventry/Warwickshire would lose a major operator as a result of the merge (and lost another fairly recently anyway) that might have competed for contracts. However with the local authorities having more control now the issues may have changed.

 

[Swanny200]

There are other things to this too; doesn't Stagecoach, through Brian Souter, still have some kind of stake in ADL, so therefore possibly National Express going back to Plaxton/ADL for their stock and back to a one coach standard and maybe a one bus standard too?

The sharing of depots is also another one. What will this mean for the coach companies that already do work for NatEx, the likes of Parks, Selwyns, especially when it can be done out of a Stagecoach depot? Will this mean that driver changes too will be done in the mould of Megabus where on a 10-12 hour journey, you have about 4 drivers?

This is before I have even thought of the bus side of it, all the money spent on relivery of Stagecoach buses, will it simply be a case of legals changing or will it be an all-out change?

 

[hst43102]

This is before I have even thought of the bus side of it, all the money spent on relivery on Stagecoach buses, will it simply be a case of legals changing or will it be an all out change?

I take it they will just be repainted into new liveries when their usual time comes (4-5 years on average)

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is before I have even thought of the bus side of it, all the money spent on relivery on Stagecoach buses, will it simply be a case of legals changing or will it be an all out change?

Legals change very rarely, only really when the local businesses get reshuffled. The "United Counties Omnibus Co. Ltd." lasted long enough, as did "Greater Manchester Buses South Ltd". Most people pay no attention to them so it doesn't really matter what they say. Indeed you could argue they don't really serve any purpose any more now the Police etc could easily look up who operated the vehicle from its registration number.

 

[carlberry]

There are other things to this too, doesn't Stagecoach, through Brian Souter, still have some kind of stake in ADL, so therefore possibly NatEx going back to Plaxton/ADL for their stock and back to a one coach standard and maybe a one bus standard too?

The sharing of depot's is also another one, what will this mean for the coach companies that already do work for NatEx, the likes of Parks, Selwyns?, especially when it can be done out of a Stagecoach depot, will this mean that driver changes too will be done in the mould of Megabus where on a 10-12 hour journey, you have about 4 drivers?

This is before I have even thought of the bus side of it, all the money spent on relivery on Stagecoach buses, will it simply be a case of legals changing or will it be an all out change?

I believe the ADL stake was his personal one and, therefore, nothing to do with Stagecoach now.

Without the new group actually decides that throwing lots of money at rebranding is a good idea it's likely that very little will change short term. Certainly I cant see a sudden need to rename the individual companies (like Arriva/First did) as Stagecoach only did it half heartily and National Express haven't so I cant see the legals changing at all.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

There are other things to this too, doesn't Stagecoach, through Brian Souter, still have some kind of stake in ADL, so therefore possibly NatEx going back to Plaxton/ADL for their stock and back to a one coach standard and maybe a one bus standard too?

The sharing of depot's is also another one, what will this mean for the coach companies that already do work for NatEx, the likes of Parks, Selwyns?, especially when it can be done out of a Stagecoach depot, will this mean that driver changes too will be done in the mould of Megabus where on a 10-12 hour journey, you have about 4 drivers?

This is before I have even thought of the bus side of it, all the money spent on relivery on Stagecoach buses, will it simply be a case of legals changing or will it be an all out change?

The purchase of Alexander Dennis was made via Souter Investments - Brian Souter's own investment vehicle NOT by Stagecoach. In any case, that has since been sold on to NFI Group of Canada.

As for National Express contractors, that is much the same as now. They can gain and lose contracts as and when NX see fit, subject to the terms of the contract.

In terms of livery etc, there are a lot of back office changes that will need to be made to merge the two businesses. In the short term, there will be little evident change. They will be the same individual OpCos so legal lettering will barely need to change if at all.

 

[Glenn1969]

Would Ofcom make them sell Megabus to get the deal passed?

 

[Bayum]

Maybe it's the only way they can get Martin Grittiths out the door!

It was clear something was up when Stagecoach made a whole lot of support staff redundant a few months back, only to rehire some of them back!

Ah, the good old let ‘em go and rehire them on a cheaper wage trick.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Would Ofcom make them sell Megabus to get the deal passed?

Why would the Telecoms and Broadcasting regulator be interested?

Are you thinking of the Competition and Markets Authority (CMA)? We've discussed this already in the thread

 

[cnjb8]

Is Coventry really a competition issue? Out of town buses only seem to go to Leamington, Rugby and Nuneaton really.

They compete in Coventry on the Nuneaton service don’t they?

 

[RT4038]

They compete in Coventry on the Nuneaton service don’t they?

The forthcoming Enhanced Partnerships will be effectively regulating that and the Leamington-Coventry corridor competition anyway. I really don't see it as an issue.