Stagecoach South & South East

[Townsend Hook]

Hi all, wondering if anyone here could help me out.

I can vaguely a remember a Stagecoach service 800 which I used to see at Chichester bus station in the mid 2000s. It ran with coach-type vehicles, but I can't remember any more details such as destinations, and I can't seem to find any information on it online. From the service number I'd hazard a guess it was somehow related to the Coastliner 700. Can anyone help me out with where this 800 used to go to, how frequent it was, what vehicles were used on it and how long it lasted? Thanks.

 

[E-Rail]

I vaguely remember it. I think it was basically a 700 with B10M Interurbans that ran from Bognor Regis to The Hard but used the A27 between Chichester and Hilsea and missed out Havant completely.

 

[Townsend Hook]

I vaguely remember it. I think it was basically a 700 with B10M Interurbans that ran from Bognor Regis to The Hard but used the A27 between Chichester and Hilsea and missed out Havant completely.

That would make sense, thanks! Can’t have been the best patronised service in the world, I can’t recall it being around longer than a year or two.

 

[E-Rail]

That would make sense, thanks! Can’t have been the best patronised service in the world, I can’t recall it being around longer than a year or two.

A bit more digging and it was branded Coastliner Xpress 800 and ran from Littlehampton to Portsmouth (not Southsea and not via Havant).

 

[SeveerYeliab]

15275 at Canterbury has now been painted into Pride colours. Looks much better than South's version imo.

 

[Drogba11CFC]

Stagecoach once again imposing staff and vehicle shortages and cancellations on my route; I was late for work this morning because my bus (as usual) was chosen for cancellation.

 

[fgwrich]

Has there been another recent vehicle transfer to the South, as ex Ayr based SF62CVX (36732) seems to be working between Andover and Newbury today. It certainly wasn't one the vehicles due to arrive in December / January as that was 36701/2/3.

Also, with a number of E200 MMCs away in Yorkshire for modifications, Oldy Goldy SN63YPU (27918) has transferred again, from Andover to Basingstoke.

 

[Flange Squeal]

Stagecoach have announced on their website that Guildford independent Safeguard Coaches will be taking over operation of their Woking local routes 39A, 39B, 39C, 40, 81 and 690 from Tuesday 30th August. They make no mention of the limited route 33 between Guildford and Woking, but given it primarily consists of journeys that would otherwise be dead runs for the above routes to/from Peasmarsh depot, one assumes the 33 will also go. It doesn't serve much purpose on its own, now that Stagecoach have taken over the more frequent 34/35 from Arriva too.

ServiceUpdatesArticle

www.stagecoachbus.com

Surrey County Council routes, in the Woking area, will transfer to Safeguard Buses.26 Jul 2022 to 30 Sep 2022​

From Tuesday 30th August, the following services, run under contract to Surrey County Council, will transfer to operation by Safeguard buses.
39A Woking -Chobham
39B Woking - Hermitage Estate
39C Woking - Arthurs Bridge Road
40 Woking - Send Marsh
81 Woking - Barnsbury Estate
690 Worplesdon - Kingfield Green


General Surrey and Kingston Updated 26 Jul 2022, 16:07

 

[MotCO]

Stagecoach have announced on their website that Guildford independent Safeguard Coaches will be taking over operation of their Woking local routes 39A, 39B, 39C, 40, 81 and 690 from Tuesday 30th August. They make no mention of the limited route 33 between Guildford and Woking, but given it primarily consists of journeys that would otherwise be dead runs for the above routes to/from Peasmarsh depot, one assumes the 33 will also go. It doesn't serve much purpose on its own, now that Stagecoach have taken over the more frequent 34/35 from Arriva too.

ServiceUpdatesArticle

www.stagecoachbus.com

How many buses does this involve. Does Safeguard have any garage space to take on more buses?

 

[Surreyman]

How many buses does this involve. Does Safeguard have any garage space to take on more buses?

I suspect this only involves one bus (haven't checked the timetables, so could be wrong but 2 at most), these routes were interworked with a Solo most of the time.
Safeguard could use their ageing 02 reg Dart MPD on these routes.
All of the routes are centred on Woking so may require a shift change in Woking.
Assume it is down to staff shortages at Stagecoach, probably a very sensible action for all parties.
I think Jacobs Well depot can squeeze in another vehicle or two - they can always move a coach over to Ewshott.

 

[alex397]

Also worth mentioning some major cuts to the Thanet area of South East.

Routes 11, 33 and 37 completely withdrawn, and major changes to the 9.

The 11 offers excellent rural Kentish scenery usually on double decks, so I’d recommend trying this out if you haven’t already, before it’s withdrawn in late August

 

[Flange Squeal]

@MotCO The current arrangements require two vehicles.

The 39A-C/40 are daytime shopper routes operating on varying days of the week and sandwiched in between the morning/afternoon runs on school/college route 690, requiring one long single deck typically an Enviro (long for capacity on the 690, single deck due to low bridge). Driver breaks are built in to the combined operation.

The 81 is a single short bus (currently Optare Solo) as anything longer can’t get round the tight roads of the estate. Peasmarsh only have two Solos and it’s not been unknown for both to be unavailable, causing either complete cancellation or an Enviro to be used and just serving the main road past the estate (king of defeating the point of the route). There was one time this went on for a week or more, but it’s not been uncommon for odd days here and there on a semi-regular basis. It would require a driver changeover at some point.

The route 18 emergency contract Safeguard won in December when Arriva left has just been tendered for it’s five year contract, but the results haven’t yet been released so it’s unknown if they’ve retained it or not. If not, then that would be one vehicle freed up from their current commitments straight away. The Mini Pointer would get around Barnsbury fine, but their current next shortest vehicle I believe is a 10.6m Tempo, two 10.7m Excels then the remainder 11m+.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Also worth mentioning some major cuts to the Thanet area of South East.

Routes 11, 33 and 37 completely withdrawn, and major changes to the 9.

The 11 offers excellent rural Kentish scenery usually on double decks, so I’d recommend trying this out if you haven’t already, before it’s withdrawn in late August

Are they actually being withdrawn, or just Stagecoach no longer running them? From what I understand, I think what that will mean is the 11, 33 and 37 now run by Regent Coaches instead.

 

[duncombec]

Are they actually being withdrawn, or just Stagecoach no longer running them? From what I understand, I think what that will mean is the 11, 33 and 37 now run by Regent Coaches instead.

They are commercial withdrawals by Stagecoach.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

They are commercial withdrawals by Stagecoach.

But you never know if an independent like Regent Coaches will takeover these services...

 

[Surreyman]

@MotCO The current arrangements require two vehicles.

The 39A-C/40 are daytime shopper routes operating on varying days of the week and sandwiched in between the morning/afternoon runs on school/college route 690, requiring one long single deck typically an Enviro (long for capacity on the 690, single deck due to low bridge). Driver breaks are built in to the combined operation.

The 81 is a single short bus (currently Optare Solo) as anything longer can’t get round the tight roads of the estate. Peasmarsh only have two Solos and it’s not been unknown for both to be unavailable, causing either complete cancellation or an Enviro to be used and just serving the main road past the estate (king of defeating the point of the route). There was one time this went on for a week or more, but it’s not been uncommon for odd days here and there on a semi-regular basis. It would require a driver changeover at some point.

The route 18 emergency contract Safeguard won in December when Arriva left has just been tendered for it’s five year contract, but the results haven’t yet been released so it’s unknown if they’ve retained it or not. If not, then that would be one vehicle freed up from their current commitments straight away. The Mini Pointer would get around Barnsbury fine, but their current next shortest vehicle I believe is a 10.6m Tempo, two 10.7m Excels then the remainder 11m+.

Flange Squeal - thanks for the update, re the 81, there's not exactly a shortage of Solos in the Stagecoach fleet, they could easily source more from the de-licensed fleet, I note that they have started to work on the 46 again.
The 18 could easily be operated by a 16 seat minibus, I don't think I have ever seen more than 6 passengers on it but it currently interworks with 3/4/5.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jul 2022 ==

Flange Squeal - thanks for the update, re the 81, there's not exactly a shortage of Solos in the Stagecoach fleet, they could easily source more from the de-licensed fleet, I note that they have started to work on the 46 again.
The 18 could easily be operated by a 16 seat minibus, I don't think I have ever seen more than 6 passengers on it but it currently interworks with 3/4/5.

Updating my own post, having now viewed the Surrey C.C Re-tender list, I note that Euro 6 is specified for most of the routes including the 18, as Safeguard I think only have 2 Euro 6 buses (the 2 Metrocities) this becomes an issue, unless Surrey allow non Euro 6.
Current Driver shortages will impact on who is prepared to bid for routes, it is even possible that some routes might not receive any bids!

 

[Man of Kent]

But you never know if an independent like Regent Coaches will takeover these services...

Regent have never operated any commercial services, and Kent County Council has no funds to offer subsidies, having lopped around one-third (£2.2m) off their own budget, leading to around 38 contracts being terminated early. The prospect of anyting being replaced (other than at the expense of something else) is slightly less than zero.

 

[Flange Squeal]

Flange Squeal - thanks for the update, re the 81, there's not exactly a shortage of Solos in the Stagecoach fleet, they could easily source more from the de-licensed fleet, I note that they have started to work on the 46 again.
The 18 could easily be operated by a 16 seat minibus, I don't think I have ever seen more than 6 passengers on it but it currently interworks with 3/4/5.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jul 2022 ==


Updating my own post, having now viewed the Surrey C.C Re-tender list, I note that Euro 6 is specified for most of the routes including the 18, as Safeguard I think only have 2 Euro 6 buses (the 2 Metrocities) this becomes an issue, unless Surrey allow non Euro 6.
Current Driver shortages will impact on who is prepared to bid for routes, it is even possible that some routes might not receive any bids!

Re Stagecoach Solos, with Aldershot just up the road and, as you say there bound to be many across the company's reserves, this made it particularly annoying that they never seemed to make use of them. The 81 was affected for the best part of a fortnight solid at one point! It came across as if they just didn't care. The two 'classic' Solos were replaced at Peasmarsh by two 14-plate SRs towards the end of last year - YJ14 BVW/X. While one is on the 81, the other one does often escape onto one diagram of the route 46/65/70/71/72 interworks.

Regarding the potential for no bids for some contracts, looking at yesterday's Surrey County Council cabinet report, the tendering process took place 13 May to 8th June (paragraph 6) with tenders being sent out to their 25 registered suppliers (paragraph 40) with responses from 14 operators and the results proposing awards to 9 operators (paragraph 20). Paragraph 45 outlines the next steps, with the cabinet decision to award the contracts taking place yesterday leading to the 'standstill period' over the next week. Paragraphs 33 and 37 also appear to talk about the cost of the new contracts and the increase. So it sounds like all contracts have already received bids and yesterday was the winning bids being put forward for cabinet approval.

Cabinet report: https://mycouncil.surreycc.gov.uk/documents/s86911/Cabinet Report 26.07.22 part 1 LB retendering.pdf

 

[Typhoon]

Regent have never operated any commercial services, and Kent County Council has no funds to offer subsidies, having lopped around one-third (£2.2m) off their own budget, leading to around 38 contracts being terminated early. The prospect of anyting being replaced (other than at the expense of something else) is slightly less than zero.

@duncombec made a good point over in the 'Substantive bus service withdrawals post-Covid' thread

The "village losses" on service 11 are Wickhambreaux, Ickham, Preston, Stourmouth and Plucks Gutter - the largest of which is Preston, with Wikipedia populations of 485, 437, 674 and 268 combined (last two). Were it not on the withdrawal list, the first two could be easily served two days a week by diverting the 544!

The concern must be that they will have to further trim subsidised services having, seemingly, decided to leave the Kent Karrier alone particularly (and I don't want to make this political) as it would seem that a further squeeze on public services is inevitable. It would be foolish to offer new contracts, knowing that was the case, even though they might seem rather more deserving. The Sandwich Connect and Tenterden Hopper services were introduced a couple of years ago and have been insufficiently popular to survive, certainly not to stand on their own two feet - they have probably some revenue from existing services.

To be honest, I would be surprised if anyone, bar, perhaps, the type of Community Bus Service as operated in Sussex, could operate some of the rural services.

The 11 offers excellent rural Kentish scenery usually on double decks, so I’d recommend trying this out if you haven’t already, before it’s withdrawn in late August

Seconded, but be prepared for a few squeaky moments (and, if the car driver who repeatedly shook her head and waved her arms around, seemingly in exasperation, on Saturday is reading this, it would have been a whole lot easier if you had reversed or moved closure to the hedge; it would not be sensible for the bus to do the former - round a bend, and it was unable to do the latter, I know, I had a window seat. It takes both parties - which is why we were able to pass a John Deere with some ease. Well done to the driver, though; kept calm and we got through.)

 

[route101]

Is the 13 and 23 that runs from Basingstoke to Haslemere the same bus that runs through ? The timetable has both routes started and finishing in Alton.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Is the 13 and 23 that runs from Basingstoke to Haslemere the same bus that runs through ? The timetable has both routes started and finishing in Alton.

Yes the 13 and 23 all interwork with eachother. Differences is that the 13 goes via Liphook, 23 doesn't.

 

[DelW]

Walking along the River Wey towpath through Peasmarsh a few days ago, I noticed that there is some work taking place at the back of the Stagecoach depot. There had been a strip of woodland and undergrowth about 5m wide which has been cleared, presumably with the intention of extending the hardstanding area as far as the river fence. This means the depot is now clearly visible from the path, having been screened previously.

 

[fgwrich]

Is the 13 and 23 that runs from Basingstoke to Haslemere the same bus that runs through ? The timetable has both routes started and finishing in Alton.

Yes the 13 and 23 all interwork with eachother. Differences is that the 13 goes via Liphook, 23 doesn't.

It’s a bit of an interesting service that - Stagecoach seems to use the 13 / 23 to interchange buses between Basingstoke and Farlington (Portsmouth).

 

[route101]

Yes the 13 and 23 all interwork with eachother. Differences is that the 13 goes via Liphook, 23 doesn't.

Yes, I asked the driver if the bus went through to Haslemere, I was only one that stayed on the bus Alton.

 

[Simon75]

Does Stagecoach have a depot/outstation in Canterbury for their local services, as can't seem to find one?

 

[E-Rail]

Does Stagecoach have a depot/outstation in Canterbury for their local services, as can't seem to find one?

They did outstation vehicles from Herne Bay in Canterbury Bus Station. No idea if it's still the practice though.

 

[Typhoon]

Does Stagecoach have a depot/outstation in Canterbury for their local services, as can't seem to find one?

Until earlier in the year, some buses used to over-night at the Bus Station, I understand that practice has now ceased. That wouldn't surprise me. It is not exactly secure. I have caught a fairly early bus from there (probably late winter, early spring), not what you might call a welcoming scene in the surrounding area.

Regarding the local services, the Park & Ride are operated by Dover, have been for ages. The 21/ 21A/ 22/ 23 require about 6 vehicles. The hospital bus would be 2 (but at least some of these used to be worked by buses coming in off other routes).

 

[alex397]

Does Stagecoach have a depot/outstation in Canterbury for their local services, as can't seem to find one?

Until very recently yes. It seems they have finally ended this practice over the last month or so. They used Canterbury Bus Station as an outstation of Herne Bay depot, with some drivers based at Canterbury too with their own rota. The bus station is unsecure, apart from perhaps some CCTV.

A few years ago they still had an outstation at a bit of an odd location called The Garth, near Canterbury West Station. This was also unsecured. This was the last remnant of the old Canterbury bus depot, which was demolished in the early 90s I think, but a small piece of land opposite was kept. It’s probably good it’s no longer there now, as there has been a lot of vandalism and anti-social behaviour across the city this summer, so I imagine there’d be a few broken windows!

 

[Typhoon]

In addition to the widely advertised changes to and cancellations of Stagecoach commercial services in East Sussex (https://www.eastsussex.gov.uk/roads...vice-changes/bus-service-changes-october-2022 the impact of which the County Council is seeking to mitigate, there are several cancellations affecting Dover Garage - the Deal locals, also the 68, 90 and 96 (a school route). Kent is already reducing the number of routes it subsidises so these are unlikely to be treated as sympathetically as the East Sussex routes.

 

[alex397]

, there are several cancellations affecting Dover Garage - the Deal locals, also the 68, 90 and 96 (a school route). .

referring to the 68, this serves some very hilly parts of Dover, so this will badly affect a lot of the regular users of the service, even with the main bus routes not that far away in terms of distance.
I’m aware this route has issues with access, with badly parked cars often affecting the route. When I travelled on the Target Firs section, the Mercedes minibus had to drive along the pavement to get past parked cars.