Stagecoach South & South East

[Typhoon]

referring to the 68, this serves some very hilly parts of Dover, so this will badly affect a lot of the regular users of the service, even with the main bus routes not that far away in terms of distance.
I’m aware this route has issues with access, with badly parked cars often affecting the route. When I travelled on the Target Firs section, the Mercedes minibus had to drive along the pavement to get past parked cars.

I think there have been problems with parked cars at the Maxton end as well. Unfortunately, the middle section of the route is well served but there is no way that the buses that serve those roads could cope with the parked vehicles at either end. Having walked down from The Citadel I wouldn't fancy returning back from the Folkestone Road to Maxton laden with shopping.

 

[GatwickDepress]

In addition to the widely advertised changes to and cancellations of Stagecoach commercial services in East Sussex (https://www.eastsussex.gov.uk/roads...vice-changes/bus-service-changes-october-2022 the impact of which the County Council is seeking to mitigate, there are several cancellations affecting Dover Garage - the Deal locals, also the 68, 90 and 96 (a school route). Kent is already reducing the number of routes it subsidises so these are unlikely to be treated as sympathetically as the East Sussex routes.

The route I rely on for work is being withdrawn, so it looks like I'll have to pass my driving test pretty pronto, sadly.

 

[busestrains]

Surprising to see Stagecoach are withdrawing from the 254/304/305/349 services. Stagecoach have run these routes for over ten years since the previous operator Countryliner went bust (although Stagecoach ran the Sunday service from a few years earlier after Coastal Coaches shut down) and they seem like busy major routes. These are the major bus routes serving Battle and Hawkhurst and providing a link between Hastings and Tunbridge Wells and various other places. So it is interesting the Stagecoach are no longer interested in them.

 

[Typhoon]

The route I rely on for work is being withdrawn, so it looks like I'll have to pass my driving test pretty pronto, sadly.

If it is one of the East Sussex services, the council are looking to 'arrange a replacement' so you may be in luck (although, I guess, it may not be on a like-for-like' basis). Kent - (much) less likely

 

[Man of Kent]

Surprising to see Stagecoach are withdrawing from the 254/304/305/349 services. Stagecoach have run these routes for over ten years since the previous operator Countryliner went bust (although Stagecoach ran the Sunday service from a few years earlier after Coastal Coaches shut down) and they seem like busy major routes. These are the major bus routes serving Battle and Hawkhurst and providing a link between Hastings and Tunbridge Wells and various other places. So it is interesting the Stagecoach are no longer interested in them.

These routes have been subsidised operations for most of their existence, and only become commercial in the Countryliner era. It is more remarkable that Stagecoach has managed to keep them going without subsidy for the ten years that it has been operating them.

 

[busestrains]

These routes have been subsidised operations for most of their existence, and only become commercial in the Countryliner era. It is more remarkable that Stagecoach has managed to keep them going without subsidy for the ten years that it has been operating them.

I see that the 254/304/305/349 are now continuing with Stagecoach under the same timetables but East Sussex County Council are now funding them.

 

[Typhoon]

I see that the 254/304/305/349 are now continuing with Stagecoach under the same timetables but East Sussex County Council are now funding them.

Maybe Stagecoach haven't caught up because their website claims:

Stagecoach cannot continue to provide this service without financial support due to low usage. ESCC are working on replacement options.

I don't know how much through business there is with the 304/5 but if Stagecoach ask too much, there are a number of independents in the area who might fancy it

 

[busestrains]

Maybe Stagecoach haven't caught up because their website claims:

I don't know how much through business there is with the 304/5 but if Stagecoach ask too much, there are a number of independents in the area who might fancy it

Stagecoach have probably just not updated their website yet as on the East Sussex County Council website it mentions that Stagecoach will continue running them but they will be funded by the council:

Bus Service Changes July 2023

More Bus Less Fuss. Bus Service Improvement Plan. Bus service enhancements.

www.eastsussex.gov.uk

If you download the PDF documents on this page it gives more details of this.

 

[Typhoon]

Stagecoach have probably just not updated their website yet as on the East Sussex County Council website it mentions that Stagecoach will continue running them but they will be funded by the council:

Bus Service Changes July 2023

More Bus Less Fuss. Bus Service Improvement Plan. Bus service enhancements.

www.eastsussex.gov.uk

If you download the PDF documents on this page it gives more details of this.

In the thread 'Substantive bus service withdrawals post-Covid' a member has stated that it would be chased up (#374). I do quote the East Sussex version there.
My reason for raising it is that at times of uncertainty, which these changes in Kent and East Sussex are, especially when they might involve journeys to school, it is essential that passengers (and parents of passengers) are updated as soon as possible. I know it can be difficult, but it is a priority. I have noticed that in the past @Man of Kent has stated that he would act on something, and it has happened, so I have hopes here too.
It isn't unique to this company and this local authority by a long way but, where people rely on buses. they should expect clear and timely information about changes and the industry and local authorities are not always good at that. In both cases it is probably because staff have been pared to the bone. and 'it is all on the internet' - except ...

​

 

[Man of Kent]

In the thread 'Substantive bus service withdrawals post-Covid' a member has stated that it would be chased up (#374). I do quote the East Sussex version there.
My reason for raising it is that at times of uncertainty, which these changes in Kent and East Sussex are, especially when they might involve journeys to school, it is essential that passengers (and parents of passengers) are updated as soon as possible. I know it can be difficult, but it is a priority. I have noticed that in the past @Man of Kent has stated that he would act on something, and it has happened, so I have hopes here too.
It isn't unique to this company and this local authority by a long way but, where people rely on buses. they should expect clear and timely information about changes and the industry and local authorities are not always good at that. In both cases it is probably because staff have been pared to the bone. and 'it is all on the internet' - except ...

​

I confirm that the Stagecoach website now shows the 254 and 304/305 all as continuing to the existing timetable.
East Sussex also shows this on the Rother tab, but not quite the same message on the Wealden tab.

 

[RogerOut]

I had a quick look at the Stagecoach South East website and it looks like quite a few changes to timetables, routes being withdrawn , or being changed/ merged.

Apparently passenger numbers at 80% since covid.

A question. Is Stagecoach South East facing staff shortages, and is this likely to be a long term thing?

Also randomly, in what is the frequent service that runs every 10 minutes or so? Is it the Canterbury triangle or something? I remember thinking at the time that there can’t be many routes outside London that run to a high frequency like that.

 

[Typhoon]

I had a quick look at the Stagecoach South East website and it looks like quite a few changes to timetables, routes being withdrawn , or being changed/ merged.

Apparently passenger numbers at 80% since covid.

A question. Is Stagecoach South East facing staff shortages, and is this likely to be a long term thing?

Also randomly, in what is the frequent service that runs every 10 minutes or so? Is it the Canterbury triangle or something? I remember thinking at the time that there can’t be many routes outside London that run to a high frequency like that.

There is some discussion on the cuts implemented today on the Substantive bus service withdrawals post-Covid thread

Stagecoach South East certainly is experiencing staffing problems (as are many operators). I am not a twitter tweeter but I know some garages are regularly producing lists of cancellations. Others may have a better idea than me, but I see staff in training but I'm not certain how many stick it out.

The Triangle is every 20 minutes. The route that stands out as being every 10 minutes is the Thanet Loop and, in my experience, can get pretty packed. Interestingly, I believe I am right in believing it may have been a Stagecoach innovation (if not, it was post privatisation). Uni 1 is also every 10 minutes but to two different destinations within the University (and much reduced during vacations)

 

[duncombec]

The Triangle is every 20 minutes. The route that stands out as being every 10 minutes is the Thanet Loop and, in my experience, can get pretty packed. Interestingly, I believe I am right in believing it may have been a Stagecoach innovation (if not, it was post privatisation). Uni 1 is also every 10 minutes but to two different destinations within the University (and much reduced during vacations)

The Thanet Loop was a Stagecoach innovation, but based very much on traditional East Kent practice in the area.

 

[aswilliamsuk]

I had a quick look at the Stagecoach South East website and it looks like quite a few changes to timetables, routes being withdrawn , or being changed/ merged.

Apparently passenger numbers at 80% since covid.

A question. Is Stagecoach South East facing staff shortages, and is this likely to be a long term thing?

Also randomly, in what is the frequent service that runs every 10 minutes or so? Is it the Canterbury triangle or something? I remember thinking at the time that there can’t be many routes outside London that run to a high frequency like that.

Stagecoach SE has been suffering staff shortages for months and months - Dover has been particularly badly hit, which helps to explain some of the cuts there.

Folkestone hasn't always been so bad, but there are still cancellations. Folkestone also has a number of high-frequency services (or relatively high frequency) - the 71/71A to Cheriton combine to be every 10 minutes (easily the busiest of the town routes), while the 16 (every 20 min Canterbury - Folkestone - Hythe) and 102 (every 20 min Dover - Folkestone - Hythe - Littlestone, hourly onto Lydd - Rye) combine to be every 10 minutes between Folkestone and Hythe. Services in Folkestone are noticeably well-used generally.

 

[Flange Squeal]

Stagecoach South will cease operating Hampshire County Council tendered daytime shopper routes 63 (Tue/Fri, Winchester to Owslebury) and 240 (Mon/Thu, The Alresfords to Ropley) after Friday 18th November. As yet no replacement operator(s) have been officially announced for the week commencing Monday 20th November, however timetables have appeared on Traveline under Cresta Coaches.

The 240 was operated by Stagecoach until 2014, when it was taken over by local independent Cresta Coaches who merged it with their own commercial AB1 Alresford town route launched two years earlier. Stagecoach regained it in 2020. The Mon/Thu nature of it would - and did - fit in nicely between Cresta's contracted Tue/Fri Alton 206/208 routes, or their Wed/Fri C41.

The 63 was previously operated by Eastleigh-based independent Xelabus, with Stagecoach taking it over three days per week in 2013(?). It dropped to two days per week in 2019 due to funding cuts.

The Traveline timetables suggest no change to 63 but the 240 timetable suggests the 0905 from Ropley moved forward by 5 mins as far as Bishop Sutton, and the 1205 from the same location moved to 1145.

Winchester area services 63 and 24019 Oct 2022 to 25 Nov 2022​

Stagecoach will no longer operate service 63 (Winchester - The Valley - Oliver's Battery - Owslebury) and service 240 (Ropley - Old Alresford - Alresford town circuit) after service on Friday 18th November.
We thank all of our passengers on these routes for their custom over the years.
For details of the new operator and times from Monday 20th November please refer to the Hampshire County Council website here

Source: https://www.stagecoachbus.com/servi...rticle?SituationId=ID-19/10/2022-14:59:40:156

 

[baza585]

Stagecoach South will cease operating Hampshire County Council tendered daytime shopper routes 63 (Tue/Fri, Winchester to Owslebury) and 240 (Mon/Thu, The Alresfords to Ropley) after Friday 18th November. As yet no replacement operator(s) have been officially announced for the week commencing Monday 20th November, however timetables have appeared on Traveline under Cresta Coaches.

The 240 was operated by Stagecoach until 2014, when it was taken over by local independent Cresta Coaches who merged it with their own commercial AB1 Alresford town route launched two years earlier. Stagecoach regained it in 2020. The Mon/Thu nature of it would - and did - fit in nicely between Cresta's contracted Tue/Fri Alton 206/208 routes, or their Wed/Fri C41.

The 63 was previously operated by Eastleigh-based independent Xelabus, with Stagecoach taking it over three days per week in 2013(?). It dropped to two days per week in 2019 due to funding cuts.

The Traveline timetables suggest no change to 63 but the 240 timetable suggests the 0905 from Ropley moved forward by 5 mins as far as Bishop Sutton, and the 1205 from the same location moved to 1145.


Source: https://www.stagecoachbus.com/servi...rticle?SituationId=ID-19/10/2022-14:59:40:156

Times for 63 barely changed, but days of operation changed to Monday and Thursday. Odd because the 240 also operates on those days. Surely makes more sense to need 1 driver and bus 4 days a week rather than 2 buses and 2 drivers twice a week. Or am I missing something......

 

[Flange Squeal]

Times for 63 barely changed, but days of operation changed to Monday and Thursday. Odd because the 240 also operates on those days. Surely makes more sense to need 1 driver and bus 4 days a week rather than 2 buses and 2 drivers twice a week. Or am I missing something......

Cresta already run Alton rural routes 206/208 on Tuesdays and Fridays and the Alresford to Basingstoke C41 on Wednesdays and Fridays. I guess therefore changing the 63 so both 63 and 240 run Monday and Thursday means they can slot these new routes in with their existing commitments Tue/Wed/Fri to only ever need two buses/drivers per day maximum despite the extra work. Otherwise they'd have needed three buses and drivers on Fridays.

 

[baza585]

Cresta already run Alton rural routes 206/208 on Tuesdays and Fridays and the Alresford to Basingstoke C41 on Wednesdays and Fridays. I guess therefore changing the 63 so both 63 and 240 run Monday and Thursday means they can slot these new routes in with their existing commitments Tue/Wed/Fri to only ever need two buses/drivers per day maximum despite the extra work. Otherwise they'd have needed three buses and drivers on Fridays.

Fair enough. Makes sense. Hopefully all the passengers will be aware......

 

[RDP]

Another bus station closure.

It has been announced that Folkestone bus station is to close within the next two years. This is as part of Folkestone & Hythe District Council's plans to redevelop the town centre

#This doesn't surprise me as it has become increasingly run down and for the past few months stand C and the Bouverie Square entrance have been out of use. Buses previously using stand C now use the National Express stop in Middelburg Square. It will be interesting to see where Stagecoach move their main terminus to but Bouverie Road West looks a likely candidate.

 

[aswilliamsuk]

Another bus station closure.

It has been announced that Folkestone bus station is to close within the next two years. This is as part of Folkestone & Hythe District Council's plans to redevelop the town centre

#This doesn't surprise me as it has become increasingly run down and for the past few months stand C and the Bouverie Square entrance have been out of use. Buses previously using stand C now use the National Express stop in Middelburg Square. It will be interesting to see where Stagecoach move their main terminus to but Bouverie Road West looks a likely candidate.

I rather suspect that Stagecoach stopped investing in the bus station once Folkestone & Hythe District Council's plans became clear - the fatal accident involving a Dart SLF that demolished Stand C only made it worse, really. Even the barrier allowing access from Bouverie Place/Sandgate Road appears to have been abandoned - buses coming from Sandgate Road into the bus station now go around the back of the main building and loop around the one-way system into the bus station.

Shellons Street further down the hill, as well as Middelburg Square, is apparently being used for the new bus stops that will replace the bus station - although any attempt to make the street buses only is impossible thanks to the entrance to the Bouverie Square/ASDA car park being right in the middle of it.

 

[RDP]

Service cuts in Ashford and Folkestone.

Stage coach have announced timetable changes affecting these areas from 12th February. These include the complete withdrawal of routes 103, 104, 111, 123 and 976 and evening journeys on route 17. Other routes have revised timetables. mainly to cover school journeys, but also include reduction of the daytime frequency on route 76 from three to two buses per hour

 

[aswilliamsuk]

Service cuts in Ashford and Folkestone.

Stage coach have announced timetable changes affecting these areas from 12th February. These include the complete withdrawal of routes 103, 104, 111, 123 and 976 and evening journeys on route 17. Other routes have revised timetables. mainly to cover school journeys, but also include reduction of the daytime frequency on route 76 from three to two buses per hour

Compared to other areas in their network changes in the past year, Folkestone has got off very lightly indeed - the 103 and 104 have been under threat for aeons, and their withdrawal along with the 76 reduction will likely see off the remaining Dart SLFs. The 111 and 123, and the 17 evening cuts, are part of the mass KCC cuts, while the 976 appears to be being replaced by changes to the 73 in the main.

What gets cascaded out of FK when the 11 new E400 MMCs for the 16 arrive (apparently in May) will be interesting - will FK lose some of its Scanias, or will the elderly 19xxx E400s move on to oust Tridents elsewhere?

 

[Typhoon]

Compared to other areas in their network changes in the past year, Folkestone has got off very lightly indeed - the 103 and 104 have been under threat for aeons, and their withdrawal along with the 76 reduction will likely see off the remaining Dart SLFs. The 111 and 123, and the 17 evening cuts, are part of the mass KCC cuts, while the 976 appears to be being replaced by changes to the 73 in the main.

What gets cascaded out of FK when the 11 new E400 MMCs for the 16 arrive (apparently in May) will be interesting - will FK lose some of its Scanias, or will the elderly 19xxx E400s move on to oust Tridents elsewhere?

I got the impression that the 103 and 104 were only introduced because there were moans at the last reorganisation, when the 100/101 were reduced to Hastings to Rye, leaving the section Lydd to New Romney direct unserved by the main Dover-Folkestone-Rye routes. The 11 calls at most of these stops (although, say, Lydd airport to New Romney is a bit of a trek). In the scheme of things, as you say, parts of the Dover network, in particular, have suffered much more.
And Kent has no money!! (I suspect there will be more reductions in the subsidised network in time.)

 

[LUYMun]

The recent news has reminded me to make a mention that Aldershot Bus Station is also set to close by May for the station forecourt redevelopment. Of course, the bus station will be sold off for housing while the "replacement" consists of two bus stops, with the expectation that Stagecoach buses will terminate by the Wellington Centre or Princes Gardens.

Here for Rushmoor

Aldershot Station Rail and Bus Interchange – Update • Rail/Bus Interchange scheme at Aldershot Railway Station is due to start around May 23, linked to redevelopment of the site of the Aldershot...

www.facebook.com

Aldershot Station Rail and Bus Interchange – Update

• Rail/Bus Interchange scheme at Aldershot Railway Station is due to start around May 23, linked to redevelopment of the site of the Aldershot Bus Station.
• There is an associated piece of work to revise the bus-stopping arrangements in Aldershot town centre.

 

[alex397]

Service cuts in Ashford and Folkestone.

Stage coach have announced timetable changes affecting these areas from 12th February. These include the complete withdrawal of routes 103, 104, 111, 123 and 976 and evening journeys on route 17. Other routes have revised timetables. mainly to cover school journeys, but also include reduction of the daytime frequency on route 76 from three to two buses per hour

The 111 remains a relatively busy route compared to other similar shopper routes. It only runs one return journey a week on Thursdays only, so it’s a shame this couldn’t have been kept. A shame the government doesn’t value these services, which are a lot more to the community than just a bus service.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jan 2023 ==

.
And Kent has no money!! (I suspect there will be more reductions in the subsidised network in time.)

But yet they (Kent County Council) have money to fund a Dover ‘Fastrack’ bus scheme, which will simply replace a commercial local route.
While this should be welcomed, and I realise funding may come from different budgets/pots, but it seems unfair that a one-day a week bus such as the 111 is cut but yet funding is found for schemes such as in Dover.
Dover, of course, having its local evening services cut in February, further making reliance on the bus unattractive.

 

[Typhoon]

The 111 remains a relatively busy route compared to other similar shopper routes. It only runs one return journey a week on Thursdays only, so it’s a shame this couldn’t have been kept. A shame the government doesn’t value these services, which are a lot more to the community than just a bus service.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jan 2023 ==


But yet they (Kent County Council) have money to fund a Dover ‘Fastrack’ bus scheme, which will simply replace a commercial local route.
While this should be welcomed, and I realise funding may come from different budgets/pots, but it seems unfair that a one-day a week bus such as the 111 is cut but yet funding is found for schemes such as in Dover.
Dover, of course, having its local evening services cut in February, further making reliance on the bus unattractive.

Most places served by the 111 are also served by other routes (Burmarsh and West Hythe are exceptions) so, I suppose, they reckon one service is better than none (I am more sympathetic to users of the 123) but I agree about Dover Fastrack. Will it get more passengers on buses? That doesn't matter - it ticks all the right boxes: 'Zero emissions', 'Carbon neutral', 'Electric Buses' 'planting trees'. 'interchange' - all these give photo-ops for councillors (I've already seen a picture of one with a shovel, pretending to dig), must be an election coming up. Running a few evening services doesn't get you that. Then there are the monthly newsletters recounting a little progress.

I just hope that they really will be 'Fast', I was in the Thameside area at the weekend, used the 480 and 490 because I didn't want a tour of the local housing estates on the 'A' and 'B'.

 

[nw1]

The recent news has reminded me to make a mention that Aldershot Bus Station is also set to close by May for the station forecourt redevelopment. Of course, the bus station will be sold off for housing while the "replacement" consists of two bus stops, with the expectation that Stagecoach buses will terminate by the Wellington Centre or Princes Gardens.

Here for Rushmoor

Aldershot Station Rail and Bus Interchange – Update • Rail/Bus Interchange scheme at Aldershot Railway Station is due to start around May 23, linked to redevelopment of the site of the Aldershot...

www.facebook.com

Given how many services terminate at Aldershot won't this be quite a big issue?

To be fair Aldershot Bus Station had a "ghost town" feel as long ago as 1987, when I first visited it (expecting something much bigger, bustling, and more impressive, like the Friary bus station in Guildford) - but the large number of bays provided a convenient place for buses to lay over. Where will they do this now, with just two stops?

Will they re-jig the routes to have more through running and lessen the need for layovers, e.g the Farnham services continuing straight through Aldershot towards Farnborough and Camberley?

 

[RogerOut]

Is there still a shortage of bus drivers in the South East ?

 

[alex397]

Is there still a shortage of bus drivers in the South East ?

Things do seem to have settled down a bit more recently. Certainly not the large list of cancellations published on Stagecoach South East’s Twitter feed as there was.

 

[LUYMun]

Given how many services terminate at Aldershot won't this be quite a big issue?

To be fair Aldershot Bus Station had a "ghost town" feel as long ago as 1987, when I first visited it (expecting something much bigger, bustling, and more impressive, like the Friary bus station in Guildford) - but the large number of bays provided a convenient place for buses to lay over. Where will they do this now, with just two stops?

Will they re-jig the routes to have more through running and lessen the need for layovers, e.g the Farnham services continuing straight through Aldershot towards Farnborough and Camberley?

I share the same concerns about the bus station - during busy periods, it isn't unusual to find all the bays to be occupied. The Plan implies that a new bus station may well be built within the town centre: www.hants.gov.uk/transport/transportschemes/aldershotstation

2. Aldershot station Forecourt Scheme

Improved bus interchange facilities directly outside the station, which is critical given the relocation of Aldershot bus station away from the train station to a new location in the town centre, which also serves to unlock a significant redevelopment site directly adjacent to the station forecourt;

However, there hasn't been news about it as of recent, so it seems that buses will terminate at the Wellington Centre and Princes Gardens, where there are multiple bus bays. This should seem easy enough to handle the capacity but this would come at the cost of reducing multimodal journeys (ie train and bus journeys).