Southeastern metro fleet replacement/improvement

[mic505]

Regarding the /2s, they were withdrawn following the cascade of the 707s from SWT/SWR in 2023/24. 465/2s were in dire condition. Most have been scrapped, the rest stored as spare donors to keep the serviceable Class 465/9s in traffic. Some Class 466s have been stored due to either a lack of depot space or poor condition. The /9s are slowly being removed due to the arrival of 13 377/1s cascaded from Southern. Although some Networkers still operate to Dover Priory. The Class 465/9s are becoming more expensive to repair due to age and unreliability.

 

[frankmoh]

465/2s were in dire condition.

Do you have any pictures of what they look like now?

Class 466s have been stored due to either a lack of depot space

If only Addiscombe was still up and running!

(Seriously where did they put all of the trains that used to be stored at Addiscombe depot after 1993? Slade Green? Grove Park? Victoria even?)

 

[47444]

(Seriously where did they put all of the trains that used to be stored at Addiscombe depot after 1993? Slade Green? Grove Park? Victoria even?)

Were not new sidings constructed at Grove Park for this purpose?

 

[Wolvercoter]

Out of interest, does anyone know the status of 465021? It's my last 465 for a photo but it appears to be absent. Has it been in service lately? Any info, greatly appreciated.

 

[Silent]

Hope they aren’t replaced with aventras as there just feels like there are too much aventra trains.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Hope they aren’t replaced with adventras as there just feels like there are too much adventra trains.

Aventras.

 

[Silent]

Yep corrected it

 

[D365]

Hope they aren’t replaced with aventras as there just feels like there are too much aventra trains.

Speculative discussion here.

 

[Goldfish62]

Hope they aren’t replaced with aventras as there just feels like there are too much aventra trains.

Eh?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Hope they aren’t replaced with aventras as there just feels like there are too much aventra trains.

Why do you think there are "too much Aventra trains"?

If anything, there aren't enough Aventra trains and the ones that are in revenue-earning service are working on SWR, not SET. I can't imagine Aventras ever coming to SET but you know, never say never.... They are primarily replacements for 1980s Class 455 stock which should have gone for scrap years ago

 

[RUK]

I guess they say that there are too many Aventras because they want more variety in train-spotting.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Why do you think there are "too much Aventra trains"?

If anything, there aren't enough Aventra trains and the ones that are in revenue-earning service are working on SWR, not SET. I can't imagine Aventras ever coming to SET but you know, never say never.... They are primarily replacements for 1980s Class 455 stock which should have gone for scrap years ago

What we do know is there is too much electric rolling stock in the UK currently in aggregate across all operators. BR would have moved it around so if GBR is to stand for anything putting together a national rolling stock strategy has to be on the to do list. Thus I wouldn't be surprised to see this procurement along with Northern and GWR get stalled before numerous individual operator commitments are made that potentially exacerbate the problem. Yes off leased stock is the lessors problem but we can't overlook there are only a handful of leasing companies and currently DfTs strategy is they are a key part of the rail eco system so they ain't going to want to give them a reason for not wanting to continue to participate in UK rolling stock market.

 

[brad465]

Apparently 466031 has been withdrawn from service, though is still in Slade Green, hopefully someone in the know can confirm whether this is the case. If true it's a reminder SE need their fleet replacement order approved, or else risk a 455 at SWR situation awaiting the 701 introduction.

 

[bramling]

I guess they say that there are too many Aventras because they want more variety in train-spotting.

Personally I’d say there’s too many Aventras because I find them a bit underwhelming from a passenger perspective, for various reasons.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Mind you would have thought Scotland would take 323's as a 3/6 car railway if they are being released and let the 318's go being the oldest 25kV units now even if its only for 5-10 yrs before a wider replacement is undertaken.

Well no, because considering you'd have to train an entire crew up on them, plus lose compatibility with 320s (and multiple 318/320 pairs are out daily), for a train merely six years younger - that won't offer an enhanced passenger experience (in fact the TrainFX 323 PIS is cheaper and much poorer quality than the Whiteleys 318 PIS), it's not really worth it.

 

[Mag_seven]

Just a gentle reminder that this thread is for the discussion of what is actually happening to the South Eastern Metro Fleet. No speculation please.
I have moved some speculative posts about Class 350/2s to this existing speculative thread.

Future of the 350/2s

Are the former WMT 323s better than the original Northern ones? They are about the same, just a bit more orange inside.

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Dlovestrains]

Is there a chance that the new trains could have 100% longitudinal seating?

I hope not, there standing capacity would be increased but I don’t think it would be worth it

 

[brad465]

Apparently 466031 has been withdrawn from service, though is still in Slade Green, hopefully someone in the know can confirm whether this is the case. If true it's a reminder SE need their fleet replacement order approved, or else risk a 455 at SWR situation awaiting the 701 introduction.

In a further update, apparently a selection of other 466s are being withdrawn to be parts' donors for other units.

 

[JonathanH]

In a further update, apparently a selection of other 466s are being withdrawn to be parts' donors for other units.

Do some BREL / ABB 465s also need to be withdrawn to obtain the parts than can't be sourced from a 466?

 

[brad465]

Do some BREL / ABB 465s also need to be withdrawn to obtain the parts than can't be sourced from a 466?

No idea, although there are some BREL units that haven't been seen in service for a long time, including, unless things have changed, 465005 and 178.

 

[FR510]

No idea, although there are some BREL units that haven't been seen in service for a long time, including, unless things have changed, 465005 and 178.

465005 has been on the stops in The Wall siding at Victoria for quite a while now, and is daubed with a significant amount of graffiti.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

465005 has been on the stops in The Wall siding at Victoria for quite a while now, and is daubed with a significant amount of graffiti.

Given that's almost directly opposite a 24 hour* manned major BTP station, this is getting ridiculous now...

*Unless they've cut it to daytime only?

 

[Peter749]

On 06 Aug there is 5Z34 1211 Derby Litchurch Lane to Strawberry Hill C.S.D. - I wonder if this is the NSE 465 returning to base?

Realtime Trains | 5Z34 1211 Derby Litchurch Lane to Strawberry Hill C.S.D. | 06/08/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Z34 1211 departure from Derby Litchurch Lane to Strawberry Hill C.S.D. on 06/08/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[mullinsj08]

On 06 Aug there is 5Z34 1211 Derby Litchurch Lane to Strawberry Hill C.S.D. - I wonder if this is the NSE 465 returning to base?

Realtime Trains | 5Z34 1211 Derby Litchurch Lane to Strawberry Hill C.S.D. | 06/08/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Z34 1211 departure from Derby Litchurch Lane to Strawberry Hill C.S.D. on 06/08/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

If it's going back to Strawberry Hill then that's more likely the class 455 going back to SWR

 

[Class15]

That’ll be the 4-VEP I think, which lives at Strawberry Hill.

 

[D365]

If it's going back to Strawberry Hill then that's more likely the class 455 going back to SWR

455868 is not expected to re-enter traffic.

 

[NSEWonderer]

That’ll be the 4-VEP I think, which lives at Strawberry Hill.

Yep that will be the Gordon 4vep

 

[Geogregor]

I probably know the answer but is there any recent information regarding the new rolling stock? It all got awfully quiet regarding the tendering.

Also, how about fitting the loos into class 707. When are they going to start?

 

[JonathanH]

I probably know the answer but is there any recent information regarding the new rolling stock? It all got awfully quiet regarding the tendering.

There is never going to be a daily news feed with regard to this sort of tender as lots of negotiations have to happen. As we have seen with other fleets, once some news is in the public domain it doesn't take long for the forum to pick up on it, so you haven't missed anything.

 

[GEC465]

Also with the /9s and 466s, why are they stored? Does it mean they are being repaired or are they just being cannibalised for spare parts? Would like to know.

Majority are part recovery now since parts are running extremely low currently. There's probably 1 or 2 that may return but don't hold your breath on that