pokemonsuper9
Established Member
They are about the same, just a bit more orange inside.
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Future of the 350/2s
- Thread starter Intercity110
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
- Different seat covers
- Seat handles are orange on WMR but yellow on Northern
- Cab and side walls for Northern are blue, while WMR are grey.
warwickshire
On Moderation
Sunday 27th July 2025.
5Q11 1408 Db cargo Sidings to Manchester Piccadilly on the move around 45 to 52 minutes late.
As Reported on www.realtime.trains.co.uk.
Also, as reported on another thread prior to working a special ecs, Run from Manchester Piccadillly to Hadfield/ Glossop and back, before returning into store at Wembley once again after the run.
Also earlier on in the year a special ecs run occurred to Stoke on Trent, but Hadfield of all places for the second run, could actually mean Northern are actually interested in them.
Also 350237 even though it's at a Poterbrook site at Long Marston, also could be in very much favour of 3502s going to Northern as well, because at Long Marston, Porterbrook can do some testing,
Plus even do some refurbishment on the units, ready for Northern to use, and work with Northern for this.
350237 could be under trials for this,
Also at Long Marston, a Porterbrook Manager, who originally worked previously for , both Arriva Northern rail, and also was a West midlands railway manager with previous class 350 knowledge works there,
Who is known quite well and amongst others, in my local area where I live close to Long Marston, of his hard work to the rail industry,
It's possible the 3502s could replace the 323s, but as always wait and see,
,
5Q11 1408 Db cargo Sidings to Manchester Piccadilly on the move around 45 to 52 minutes late.
As Reported on www.realtime.trains.co.uk.
Also, as reported on another thread prior to working a special ecs, Run from Manchester Piccadillly to Hadfield/ Glossop and back, before returning into store at Wembley once again after the run.
Also earlier on in the year a special ecs run occurred to Stoke on Trent, but Hadfield of all places for the second run, could actually mean Northern are actually interested in them.
Also 350237 even though it's at a Poterbrook site at Long Marston, also could be in very much favour of 3502s going to Northern as well, because at Long Marston, Porterbrook can do some testing,
Plus even do some refurbishment on the units, ready for Northern to use, and work with Northern for this.
350237 could be under trials for this,
Also at Long Marston, a Porterbrook Manager, who originally worked previously for , both Arriva Northern rail, and also was a West midlands railway manager with previous class 350 knowledge works there,
Who is known quite well and amongst others, in my local area where I live close to Long Marston, of his hard work to the rail industry,
It's possible the 3502s could replace the 323s, but as always wait and see,
,
mansonlo49
Member
its now 98 late, departing crewe
pokemonsuper9
Established Member
Yep, RTT links below:
5Q11 1408 Db Cargo Fan A And B Sdgs to Crewe - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K40170/2025-07-27/detailed
5Q12 1648 Crewe to Manchester Piccadilly - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K40169/2025-07-27/detailed
5Q13 1904 Manchester Piccadilly to Hadfield - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K39951/2025-07-27/detailed
5Q14 1946 Hadfield to Manchester Piccadilly - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K39950/2025-07-27/detailed
5Q15 2034 Manchester Piccadilly to Hadfield - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K39949/2025-07-27/detailed
5Q17 2115 Hadfield to Manchester Piccadilly - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K39948/2025-07-27/detailed
5Q20 2201 Manchester Piccadilly to Hadfield - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K40168/2025-07-27/detailed
5Q21 2255 Hadfield to Manchester Piccadilly - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K40167/2025-07-27/detailed
5Q25 0002 Manchester Piccadilly to Db Cargo Fan A And B Sdgs - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K40166/2025-07-28/detailed
Would 110mph running involve any extra training not covered in 100mph?
Liam L
Established Member
I doubt the 323s will be going anytime soon, they got a tender out to refurbish the ex WMT sets, why spend money on something your going to be replacing?
RUK
Member
The 350/2s are apparently moving to Northern to replace the 323s, and the 379s have found a home, so I can’t think of any other spare. The 458s are being kept now. Greater Anglia might have a few more Class 720s than they need at the moment, but some of them are being used on Stansted Express services to cover for the insufficient order of 745s, and passenger growth will continue in the future. There might be a few more 755s that aren’t being used at the moment since the new services they were for haven’t been introduced, but it seems that their availability is declining a bit, so there is less slack in the fleet - so all that would be available are micro-fleets of a few 720s and 755s, which will probably see use in the future at passenger growth continues anyway.
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
According to who?
ic31420
Member
Plenty of tenders go out for stuff that never actually happens.
Ive always liked the 323s, but the 350s are a step change improvement for the passenger environment. you could spend a lot of money on the 323s and not end up with something as good as the 350.
How many 350s are available?
Ive always liked the 323s, but the 350s are a step change improvement for the passenger environment. you could spend a lot of money on the 323s and not end up with something as good as the 350.
How many 350s are available?
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
Mmm I don’t know. The two carriage 158s that make up the vast majority of Northern’s 158 fleet got the dark blue walls and panels, but the handful of three carriage ones didn’t, and the beige walls make the interior feel very dated and 90s by comparison, I think.
Liam L
Established Member
Starts in September according to the tender which is now locked behind a log in however I linked the article. https://www.modernrailways.com/article/class-323-refresh-work-planned
pokemonsuper9
Established Member
There are 37 350/2s, I don't know if any are affected by the flood damage.
Liam L
Established Member
Will be 37 350/2s once they all come back off lease from WMT. And there are now posters onboard the EX WMT sets that the refurb is coming so I'd imagine it still going ahead.
I'm assuming Northern are trying out a 350/2 to evaluate whether they're suited to the stop-start operations on that line, especially acceleration and punctuality
warwickshire
On Moderation
Agree, could be a possibility for other lines in due course as well, on the North West side, just like the Stoke on Trent run previously, something is most certainly in the pipeline, Northern must be interested in the 3502s , because unlike the 321 Retanus, units when stored at Wembley didn't venture of site,
Particularly on a Sunday evening of all days, especially a unit in Warm store, a class
3502,, going for a trial run, on a Northern branch line, and back all the way to Wembley, again for further storage, means Northern are interested.
Currently not related, the only other trains being moved around in warm store, are purely for maintenance purposes, as we know are, the ex tpe mk5 sets to keep them maintained ready for chiltern railways but that is all in the separate mk5 threads.
Nicholas Lewis
Established Member
The 323's have IGBT traction converters in a retrofit done a few years back so have plenty of life left in them but are clearly older than the 350's so might be sensible in the round. Mind you would have thought Scotland would take 323's as a 3/6 car railway if they are being released and let the 318's go being the oldest 25kV units now even if its only for 5-10 yrs before a wider replacement is undertaken.
GA declared they had 20 more 720's than they needed but i get the 745 fleet is tight but still probably 15 surplus units. SWR also have more units than they need post full commissioning of 701's so that will throw off more surplus units. Then with electrification all but stalled for years now there is no logically home for many of these units other than the scrapper. So its still possible some of SE demands could be fulfilled by transfers in of surplus units many of which need not much more than a shoebeam being added to run on DC.
There is a few running around in “reduced power mode” my friend at Northern advised recently..
tfw756rider
On Moderation
A photo has been posted by @323 Class of 350245 at Hadfield in ---> this <--- thread.
On the other hand why go to the effort and expense of organizing test runs of the 350s on the Northern 323 routes if some kind of replacement / swap isn't at least being thought about?
Everything rail related costs an eye watering amount, so these 350 moves must be something more than a Sunday afternoon jolly...
It's a fairly open secret that Northern are considering them. They aren't just doing these runs for fun!
If you are building a business case, it helps to know all the costs of the various options. Was the tender ever actually awarded?
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
The discussion so far appears to be on if the 350/2s are replacing 323s or not.
There is another possibility... are there any single 323 and 331 services that really need doubling up? If so, the 350/2s could be a means of freeing up enough 323s and 331s to do that?
There is another possibility... are there any single 323 and 331 services that really need doubling up? If so, the 350/2s could be a means of freeing up enough 323s and 331s to do that?
pokemonsuper9
Established Member
I was thinking just that!
Free up some 323s and 331s running solo to run double where they fit (likely making Airport-Blackpool N purely double 323) and having more 4 cars elsewhere.
If the 350s were to go to Northern with no units lost (or maybe just the 769s), does anyone know if there is maintenance capacity for them?
Halish Railway
Established Member
To the best of my knowledge Ardwick maintained the 10 TPE 350/4s and no other trains apart from the pre-existing 185s have been maintained there since so that could be within a shout.
tfw756rider
On Moderation
Would Ardwick have enough capacity, bearing in mind that there would be 37 350/2s vs. the 10 350/4s they had?
Captured 350245 this evening, I have posted a few photos on my Flickr, one of which is 350245 crossing Dinting viaduct. https://www.flickr.com/photos/railphotosonline/54683230200/in/dateposted/
I think Ardwick maintains 323s - see https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...4/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=NT
Liam L
Established Member
Not sure, however the 323s have gained posters stating a refurb is happening so I'd hope. The work is meant to start in September
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
I think they just stable them inbetween services, all the maintenance is done at Allerton I think?
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
To be fair, it hasn't been stated if northern would be taking the full fleet of 37. Id imagine that information would become clear if they decide to do so.
Sutton in Ant
Member
I have done a little research and I have found this. Northern railway and Porterbrook has put in a tender for the 323s to have a light refurbishment. Why would Nothern do a refurbishment on the 323s if they were wanting to get rid of them and replace them with 350/2s.
My conclusion is that 323s are still going to be in service with Northern and the 350/2s will not be going to Nortern.
My conclusion is that 323s are still going to be in service with Northern and the 350/2s will not be going to Nortern.
So, what is your explanation for the recent testing?
tfw756rider
On Moderation
Oh yeah, they wouldn't necessarily be taking all of them.
- Status