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Snow related disruption (Jan 2013)
- Thread starter trwilson
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I saw the notices last week about the Piccadilly to Piccadilly Gardens replacement bus and thought "That seems unnecessary, it must be a statutory requirement or somesuch". I know this forum well enough to guess someone, somewhere, knows of a similar rail replacement bus taking as "long", if not shorter
This morning the only part of the Underground suspended or with delays due to ''adverse weather'' is between Turnham Green & Richmond, a section operated by Network Rail. Surely that says something about the difference between how respective companies deal with snow?
Monty
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Alternatively it could be that NR just have more trackage under their care and the Richmond to Turnham Green is not a priority for them at the moment. Lots of arcing today I've noticed, suspect we could have trouble in 3rd rail land today.
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Why are Southern being so badly affected morning but South West Trains far less.
I see buses have been sourced from Brighton to Three Bridges which is amazing given the weather and the fact it's a Monday morning.
My rammed train to Clapham from Guildford was 10 minute late but the driver didn't know. In contrast I got to the southern part of Clapham and all the information screens were out born order or switched off on purpose. There were no announcements about cancellations but there was a helpful man in the office. He said they were hoping to run trains to Milton Keynes later on. Now in would have eben on the 8.39. When I looked at NRE at 6.30 this morning the 6.39 was cancelled but the 7.39 still running. In fact at that time they were still snowing trains leaving Haywards Heath. Interestingly the train from Brighton after 5am left 1 hour 5 minutes kte but at every bother station was simply listed as delayed. Did it break down somewhere?
I see buses have been sourced from Brighton to Three Bridges which is amazing given the weather and the fact it's a Monday morning.
My rammed train to Clapham from Guildford was 10 minute late but the driver didn't know. In contrast I got to the southern part of Clapham and all the information screens were out born order or switched off on purpose. There were no announcements about cancellations but there was a helpful man in the office. He said they were hoping to run trains to Milton Keynes later on. Now in would have eben on the 8.39. When I looked at NRE at 6.30 this morning the 6.39 was cancelled but the 7.39 still running. In fact at that time they were still snowing trains leaving Haywards Heath. Interestingly the train from Brighton after 5am left 1 hour 5 minutes kte but at every bother station was simply listed as delayed. Did it break down somewhere?
Cheers, I've been pinging the NR feed, nothing on there until after I'd decided to work from home today - thank goodness for traffic cameras, they give you a better insight than the traffic and weather feeds
87015
Established Member
You got lucky then, Southern have helpully abandoned all Metro routes via Tulse Hill since before 0700. Still its only the AM peak so no-one would possibly want to go anywhere.
"Heavy snowfall and ice is causing disruption across some London Overground routes.
Because of this, the following changes will apply:
No trains between Surrey Quays and Clapham Junction until approximately 12:00
No trains between Willesden Junction and Richmond until approximately 11:30
Some trains between Highbury & Islington and Crystal Palace may be cancelled until further notice"
(National Rail Twitter)
Because of this, the following changes will apply:
No trains between Surrey Quays and Clapham Junction until approximately 12:00
No trains between Willesden Junction and Richmond until approximately 11:30
Some trains between Highbury & Islington and Crystal Palace may be cancelled until further notice"
(National Rail Twitter)
Southern have also run into a problem with trains to Reigate. The 0702 from London Victoria to Reigate left Redhill at 0803 19 minutes late and promptly got stuck leading to all trains between Redhill and Guildford being cancelled. Still there over two hours later.
I guess the people onboard have been moved to another train?
DavyCrocket
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Passenger trains fitted with de-icing equipment and brushes. Hand deicing of depot areas. Trains run through the night or started earlier.
Snow and ice does imobilise LU but not for as long!
tsr
Established Member
I think it was shunted out of the way with pax onboard... as far as I know. I could be wrong - I will see if I can find out soon. It's definitely a very bad day for that line, so far, though!
tsr
Established Member
Sledge! Or via Guildford, should you have been lucky enough to enjoy a Westbound train.
ushawk
Established Member
Brighton Mainline problems are down to a late finish of the engineering work, which in my opinion shouldnt have gone ahead anyway as conditions down here have been awful all weekend. Have also heard reports a snow train to clear the lines failed at Preston park around 7AM too.
Buses still replacing trains between Haywards Heath and Lewes because of it. No Southern service between South Bermondsey and Streatham, South Croydon and MK Central and between Horsham and Dorking. Presumably all down to trains not being able to gain traction.
Theres been 2 major incidents of this in the past few days. On Friday a Seaford - Brighton Class 313 failed after its motors burned out between Lewes and Falmer and was stuck there for SIX hours, finally being dragged back to Lewes at Midnight. Yesterday night a 377 on an Ore - Brighton service failed between Pevensey and Hampden Park and eventually got moving after 3 hours.
Network Rail needs to get a move on with this conductor rail heating across the South.
Buses still replacing trains between Haywards Heath and Lewes because of it. No Southern service between South Bermondsey and Streatham, South Croydon and MK Central and between Horsham and Dorking. Presumably all down to trains not being able to gain traction.
Theres been 2 major incidents of this in the past few days. On Friday a Seaford - Brighton Class 313 failed after its motors burned out between Lewes and Falmer and was stuck there for SIX hours, finally being dragged back to Lewes at Midnight. Yesterday night a 377 on an Ore - Brighton service failed between Pevensey and Hampden Park and eventually got moving after 3 hours.
Network Rail needs to get a move on with this conductor rail heating across the South.
Southern trains are currently suspend on the West London Line. Does anyone know why? Yes I know it's been snowing but what is the exact snow related reason for it. They were running Friday to Sunday.
The issues with the main line this morning and Southern was caused by over running engineering works was mentioned on Southern's Web Site home page providing you were viewing the desktop version that is . I was on the mobile version of their site so never saw it. I e-mailed them earlier to alert them of this but not had a reply yet. I suspect I won't be until some days or weeks after they need to update the information and that the information won't be given out to mobile users.
For example there is nothing to say the West London Line is suspended expect on the desktop home page. Not even NRE have this privileged information.
As for the West London Line when you go to the live departure board for Harrow & Wealdstone, NRE are not giving out any alerts that trains to South Croydon/Milton Keynes are cancelled. The alert one gets at the top of the page. There is one for Southern but in the service disruption details there is no mention of the West London Line. It's as if it does not exist.
Some actual services in the listing just had delayed by them with * to show they missed their monitoring point and others just say cancelled without a reason. Go a bit further ahead and they are still running. I suspect the running ones will become delayed with the *. That is poor. It doesn't take much to provide a reason. Someone must know somewhere why the trains are not running. Someone must surely also be able to update the information. If they cannot then that suggests the system needs updating to make it easier and quicker for them to update it.
I was told earlier they hope to run trains later in the day. I certainly hope so because they are still in the journey planner system. I hope it's not a case of cancelling some about an hour before they are due to leave and leaving the rest as running until they automatically get delayed. That's not helpful to passengers.
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There was enough traction for London Overground to run trains between Clapham Junction and Wilesden Junction. And Southern trains on that route over the weekend were not cancelled as far as I am aware. They even issued an emergency timetable for it, although it looked much the same as the one normally used from my brief look. So at some point they clearly felt they would be able to run trains on it, so I wonder what changed this morning. It would be nice to actually know.
The issues with the main line this morning and Southern was caused by over running engineering works was mentioned on Southern's Web Site home page providing you were viewing the desktop version that is . I was on the mobile version of their site so never saw it. I e-mailed them earlier to alert them of this but not had a reply yet. I suspect I won't be until some days or weeks after they need to update the information and that the information won't be given out to mobile users.
For example there is nothing to say the West London Line is suspended expect on the desktop home page. Not even NRE have this privileged information.
As for the West London Line when you go to the live departure board for Harrow & Wealdstone, NRE are not giving out any alerts that trains to South Croydon/Milton Keynes are cancelled. The alert one gets at the top of the page. There is one for Southern but in the service disruption details there is no mention of the West London Line. It's as if it does not exist.
Some actual services in the listing just had delayed by them with * to show they missed their monitoring point and others just say cancelled without a reason. Go a bit further ahead and they are still running. I suspect the running ones will become delayed with the *. That is poor. It doesn't take much to provide a reason. Someone must know somewhere why the trains are not running. Someone must surely also be able to update the information. If they cannot then that suggests the system needs updating to make it easier and quicker for them to update it.
I was told earlier they hope to run trains later in the day. I certainly hope so because they are still in the journey planner system. I hope it's not a case of cancelling some about an hour before they are due to leave and leaving the rest as running until they automatically get delayed. That's not helpful to passengers.
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There was enough traction for London Overground to run trains between Clapham Junction and Wilesden Junction. And Southern trains on that route over the weekend were not cancelled as far as I am aware. They even issued an emergency timetable for it, although it looked much the same as the one normally used from my brief look. So at some point they clearly felt they would be able to run trains on it, so I wonder what changed this morning. It would be nice to actually know.
ushawk
Established Member
To reduce the amount of trains ran on the network so trains can be delayed less.
If Southern actually knew when they were actually delayed they would do things to stop it. Like the problems at Reigate, did Southern know a train was going to get stuck ?
Delays are to be expected in this weather.
stanley T
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SouthEastern screwed again this morning - train sat for nearly an hour outside Lewisham waiting for signal clearance. Colleagues coming in by SW Trains, all more or less on time. No snow falling since yesterday evening.
Reasons please: emergency timetable v crazy attempt to run all trains? management? Siemens built trains don't break down, while Bombardier built and Networkers do? Or just the ghastly bottleneck that is London Bridge?
Reasons please: emergency timetable v crazy attempt to run all trains? management? Siemens built trains don't break down, while Bombardier built and Networkers do? Or just the ghastly bottleneck that is London Bridge?
Well why were the trains running yesterday when it actually was snowing? My point is that they ran trains from Friday through to yesterday and then cancelled them today without any reason given and nor did they bother to let NRE know or even update the live departure pages.
Many trains are showing as delayed. In fact the 1759 from Harrow shows just that. It also has a * by it to say it missed it's monitoring point.
When you go to plan a journey, it shows the train has being on time. I imagine the train has been cancelled and if so then why not say that. Why just ignore it.
How long is a train left as delayed before it is taken off the NRE live departure board on their Web Site because they are eventually removed even though no reason has been given. If you use the NRE app you can still find them because you can search in the past. So they are delayed for infinity.
I'm not moaning about the delays so much as the fact they don't want to give out information about them. I mean they explained why the Brighton line had problems this morning so why not the West London Line. Why should we be left in the dark.
Personally I hope it snows a lot more and then perhaps the train companies will start to improve the level of information they give out. End of rant.
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The problems at Reigate were publicised but I've heard no publicised problems on the West London Line, yet they chose not to run trains on that. The emergency timetable had them running. They don't do themselves any favours but not explaining what is going on. People like to know or am I in a minority here.
Apparently there is now only minor disruptions on the West London Line. I wouldn't call cancelling trains, minor disruption when there is only 1 train an hour.
Oi! My Voyager was bang on time today, even in snowy conditions. And we didn't have any broken windows either!
(Normally, any rants about Bombardier would find me in whole-hearted agreement!)
ushawk
Established Member
Less trains run at weekends so there is no need to put in an emergency timetable which actually reduces a service, plus no new snow fell on Saturday.
So all trains that show as On Time will be Cancelled ? It means they are currently On Time or due to ran On Time, in some cases its unknown if a train is delayed until it leaves its terminus. You cant say a service is delayed if it isnt, but it is due to a flaw in the system.
30 minutes i believe, after then i think the system just assumes its stuck or cancelled. An example is that a train was stuck near Pevensey for 3 hours last night - that wouldnt stay on NRE for 3 hours showing as delayed.
Id rather a service which has been delayed for a long time be removed from boards than having it left on there in place of a service which is actually running.
I agree here, i dont have a clue why the WLL wasnt running and thats very poor. It comes across that they were totally focusing on the Brighton Mainline and forgot about the WLL which is wrong. They cant just say its because of bad weather as LOROL were still operating. I personally think it was a lack of 377/2s so they had to source them from other parts of the network.
On the other hand, all the subsurface lines, plus the Jubly, were suspended or disrupted until after 0800 due to overrunning engineering works.
Kent Coast line had been running OK. There was one train turned short on Friday. It didn't run over the weekend due to engineering. This morning everything was fine until we got to Hither Green. There were power problems in the New Cross area. We got into CHX just under an hour late. SEs Delay Repay applies for any delay so will be filling in a form but will only get 30 - 59 min band of refund. Used HS this evening.
Regards
Bushy
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