Smoking

[BestWestern]

I totally understand what you are saying, but from what a couple of the tobacconists that I go to (I still smoke cigars occasionally), they are trying to allow some pubs, clubs and hotels to have smoking inside as long as there is no food in the premises and that there is adequate signage pointing to the risk to health from smoke.

However this as said could be nonsense but it is gathering ground in some circles but again I would see it hard to police because how would you punish someone for just coming out of a smoking pub and lighting up in a non smoking pub and getting confused for instance. I can also see premiums for insurance rising because of the potential risks etc...

The only reason I kind of believe these guys is that they would not have much to gain by lying.

The premises would need, presumably, to be staffed entirely by people who are willing to sign a disclaimer stating that they accept the hazard to their health. The employer may find it difficult to obtain insurance, both for employees and for public liability, and they may be issues passing the building for fire regulations. Allowing it would also lead to pretty much every single pub in the country applying for the same derogation, and endless legal battles thereafter. I imagine their campaign will fall flat.

The one unfortunate side-effect of the smoking ban is of course the epidemic of vaping. I have to say I find the disgusting, artificial, sickly sweet clouds of god knows what that comes off these people, just as objectionable as fag smoke. It stinks, and while most smokers nowadays are considerate enough to stay away from others (or at least know they'll he chastised if they don't), the vaping brigade seem to feel that it's fine to puff horrible clouds of the stuff out wherever they like. They really do create clouds, too, big ones! Hopefully, in time, the ridiculous craze will cease to be trendy and slowly die off.

 

[HH]

Whilst, as a smoker myself, I do respect and obey the rules about smoking on platforms, I am at a tiny bit of a loss as to why it's prohibited on outside unenclosed platforms? Would welcome any answers!

Fire hazard. Many smokers just flick their cigarettes away; in fact I now wonder if some of the lineside fires are caused by drivers/guards throwing away their still-lighted fags...

 

[Swanny200]

The premises would need, presumably, to be staffed entirely by people who are willing to sign a disclaimer stating that they accept the hazard to their health. The employer may find it difficult to obtain insurance, both for employees and for public liability, and they may be issues passing the building for fire regulations. Allowing it would also lead to pretty much every single pub in the country applying for the same derogation, and endless legal battles thereafter. I imagine their campaign will fall flat.

The one unfortunate side-effect of the smoking ban is of course the epidemic of vaping. I have to say I find the disgusting, artificial, sickly sweet clouds of god knows what that comes off these people, just as objectionable as fag smoke. It stinks, and while most smokers nowadays are considerate enough to stay away from others (or at least know they'll he chastised if they don't), the vaping brigade seem to feel that it's fine to puff horrible clouds of the stuff out wherever they like. They really do create clouds, too, big ones! Hopefully, in time, the ridiculous craze will cease to be trendy and slowly die off.

I do vape, not every one produces clouds, they call themselves cloud chasers and I agree, I have followed on occasion a car with clouds of the stuff eminating from the car window which does make me wonder how the hell they can see anything. Mine blows vapour out like a normal fag would do, some of the vapour will smell, but some of them do not, I do agree that I see a lot of vapers who seem to think they can do it anywhere, I was in a pub in Kent last month for a wedding reception and they allowed vaping inside which I was surprised at and with quite a few of us vaping it was getting ridiculous.

The new tobacco regs that come into force in May will deter a few vapers as the size of bottle containing liquid is restricted, which I assume will mean that prices will go up, no vape products will be allowed if they have a chance of leaking from the end that you vape from (impossible from a device that you have to refill yourself), the other thing is that if 3 EU states decide to prohibit a device then there will be a total ban for that device.

 

[Railsigns]

Is there any good reason why smoking is not permitted on open air platforms?

The smoking law itself does not apply, since it concerns enclosed spaces only. The usual understanding is that two walls and a roof must be present before a space is considered enclosed. If there is only one wall, the law does not prohibit smoking.

Now, the railway industry was perfectly entitled to make extra rules of its own, just as it's your right to tell people that you don't allow smoking in your house - but those extra rules are not the law. IIRC, a couple of TOCs got told off for claiming that smoking on platforms was now illegal when it wasn't.

As long as there are signs explaining that smoking is not permitted on the open platforms, then anyone who disregards those signs is in violation of Railway Byelaw No.3 and is therefore breaking the law.

 

[CarlSilva]

Yeah I can see why people would object to breathing in a load of smoke, but uniless it's in a confined space I still think it's a bit nanny state. I gave up years ago and that's just me, so if other people still want to smoke, that's fine.
I reckon the way smoking has been pushed underground (and it obvioulsy has by the way people do it on the sly), the risk is worse now. If it was still legal then it would be catered for like as in with proper smoking carriages, plenty of ashtrays and all that, but what we find now is fag ends thrown from windows, put in pockets, litter bins ect, and you might find the fire risk now is worse than before the ban.

 

[Wivenswold]

Smoker here, I can't imagine going back to the days of smoking on trains. I don't even do it in my car.

I do find the strict adherence to the open platforms rule bizarre, across Europe the ban seems more sensible and less in your face. For example, pubs in some countries can have separate rooms for smokers but you have to clear-up after yourself because staff aren't allowed in them if anyone has lit up.

But late at night, in the freezing cold and waiting in the open at the end of a platform waiting for a delayed train, I really didn't expect the platform staff to come and threaten me. There was no-one else around FFS. Though my response baffled them "No smoking? But according to the timetable I'm at home now."

 

[Firsttimer]

I think a small bit of common sense should prevail. I know rules are rules but come on. Smoking at the end of a platform with no one around is hardly worth getting in a fuss over

 

[Swanny200]

I think a small bit of common sense should prevail. I know rules are rules but come on. Smoking at the end of a platform with no one around is hardly worth getting in a fuss over

I would be inclined to agree with you, the amount of people I see smoking in their cars with children or in works vehicles even in front of the police and 9 times out of 10 they do not do anything, people being visited by home helps or nurses are supposed to not smoke in the property for a certain amount of time before they arrive too, but most people don't and if that nurse is a smoker, I have seen it when my neighbour had daily visits, they used to smoke in the kitchen with her.

We are all told that 2nd hand smoke kills so when that nurse leaves the house and has all that 2nd hand smoke on their clothes, the 2nd hand smoke travels with them.

Smoking is not illegal but smokers might as well be treated like the antichrist in the way they are treated and dealt with sometimes.

 

[rebmcr]

If there's a smell of smoke on a train, one should pull the passcom rather than assume it's not a serious fault.

In the event it is actually a staff member smoking when they shouldn't be, the ensuing paperwork would probably make them think better of it in future!

 

[SamYeager]

We are all told that 2nd hand smoke kills so when that nurse leaves the house and has all that 2nd hand smoke on their clothes, the 2nd hand smoke travels with them.

I believe 2nd hand smoke is smoke that might be inhaled by a non smoker. You appear to be talking about the smell of smoke which is an entirely different matter.

Whilst this smell may be unpleasant to non smokers I do not recall hearing of any medical evidence implicating the smell of tobacco in causing illness to non smokers although I make no claims to be an expert on the subject

 

[Swanny200]

I believe 2nd hand smoke is smoke that might be inhaled by a non smoker. You appear to be talking about the smell of smoke which is an entirely different matter.

Whilst this smell may be unpleasant to non smokers I do not recall hearing of any medical evidence implicating the smell of tobacco in causing illness to non smokers although I make no claims to be an expert on the subject

There was a campaign of ads in Scotland, for their smoke free campaign, did a bit of looking into it afterwards and apparently smoke can linger on clothes for hours after and can be just as dangerous apparently.

 

[BestWestern]

If there's a smell of smoke on a train, one should pull the passcom rather than assume it's not a serious fault.

In the event it is actually a staff member smoking when they shouldn't be, the ensuing paperwork would probably make them think better of it in future!

Possibly true!

One can usually tell the difference of course, fag smoke is a rather distinctive stink!

 

[aylesbury]

When smoking was the norm my clothes stunk of stale smoke as did my hair and I am very pleased with the ban and the number of people giving up.

I agree about some vapours; they look like a bonfire and I wonder if they know how antisocial they are.

When walking about our town and I pass a group of smokers the stink is very obvious and I give them a wide berth, but if anyone vaped or lit up in a pub or hotel I would very annoyed with them and say something.

I don't think overturning the smoking ban is something that post Brexit is even on the radar, maybe a ban on all public places will come, now that's progress.

 

[Johncleesefan]

Possibly true!

One can usually tell the difference of course, fag smoke is a rather distinctive stink!

Yeh I think pulling a pass comm is a little extreme if you can tell it's a fag, you may find yourself answering to why you used it improperly, is it an emergency? Instead I from either the guard or at the next station

 

[jon0844]

I do vape, not every one produces clouds, they call themselves cloud chasers and I agree, I have followed on occasion a car with clouds of the stuff eminating from the car window which does make me wonder how the hell they can see anything. Mine blows vapour out like a normal fag would do, some of the vapour will smell, but some of them do not, I do agree that I see a lot of vapers who seem to think they can do it anywhere, I was in a pub in Kent last month for a wedding reception and they allowed vaping inside which I was surprised at and with quite a few of us vaping it was getting ridiculous.

The new tobacco regs that come into force in May will deter a few vapers as the size of bottle containing liquid is restricted, which I assume will mean that prices will go up, no vape products will be allowed if they have a chance of leaking from the end that you vape from (impossible from a device that you have to refill yourself), the other thing is that if 3 EU states decide to prohibit a device then there will be a total ban for that device.

Nice to hear there's some attempt at controlling what seems very risky in terms of the hardware being imported that can be made by anyone and not necessarily have full type approval (and we all know the trick with CE and C E markings, but trading standards has never had the manpower to cope with all of these kind of things).

I got a load of the first generation devices for a magazine feature years ago and even then, it was clear it was going to become like the old west. Now you have some importers spending a lot of money on nice packaging, but I'm sure a lot of the hardware people are buying is very suspect. Think the 'hoverboard' problems from a year or so ago.

 

[Butts]

Staff and Passengers regularly disembark at Crianlarich for a fag whilst awaiting a departure or connection for Oban/Kyle of Lochalsh Services.

I feel sorry for Smokers on the Sleeper Services as in theory they are unable to alight for a smoke on any open platforms which form parts of Stations it may stop at.

I wonder if people vape onboard as I believe you can purchase odourless and virtually smokeless variants. ?

 

[bramling]

I think a small bit of common sense should prevail. I know rules are rules but come on. Smoking at the end of a platform with no one around is hardly worth getting in a fuss over

Speaking from a staff's point of view, I agree to a point. *However*, experience tells me that people who have the audacity to deliberately break the rule on smoking in full view of everyone seem to have a higher-than-proportionate likelihood of exhibiting other forms of problem behaviour or attitude.

 

[philthetube]

I know of a case where a member of underground staff who did smoke in the cab was informed by the union that this was not fair on all the otherd rivers, Some of who had complained to the union, and the branch would take action if he persisted to smoke in cabs.

 

[47271]

Staff and Passengers regularly disembark at Crianlarich for a fag whilst awaiting a departure or connection for Oban/Kyle of Lochalsh Services.

I feel sorry for Smokers on the Sleeper Services as in theory they are unable to alight for a smoke on any open platforms which form parts of Stations it may stop at.

I wonder if people vape onboard as I believe you can purchase odourless and virtually smokeless variants. ?

Perth and Grahamston are favourite southbound Inverness sleeper puffing points for passengers and, ahem, crew alike.

Vaping in a sleeper berth? Well, if you're very brave you could try, but it takes very little to set off the detectors...

 

[Swanny200]

Perth and Grahamston are favourite southbound Inverness sleeper puffing points for passengers and, ahem, crew alike.

Vaping in a sleeper berth? Well, if you're very brave you could try, but it takes very little to set off the detectors...

Slightly O.T but vaping has been banned in any Whitbread establishments which includes their hotels and have spent a lot of money in their refurbs to include specialist smoke alarms that pick up smoke and vapour, very sensitive and will end up with a fine and your hotel stay cut short.

There was a situation where a vaping forum sent emails asking for the stance on vaping to all pub chains,supermarkets, hotels etc... One of the supermarkets did come back (Was Asda or Tesco) saying that they would allow you to vape as long as nobody complained, although I think that has changed now.

 

[Railsigns]

Staff and Passengers regularly disembark at Crianlarich for a fag whilst awaiting a departure or connection for Oban/Kyle of Lochalsh Services.

What on Earth must they be smoking if they're at Crianlarich while thinking they're on their way to Kyle of Lochalsh?

Incidentally, I once heard the conductor of an Oban/Mallaig service arriving into Crianlarich warning over the PA that anyone who disembarked for a smoke on the platform wouldn't be allowed back on the train.

 

[paddington]

The worst thing about the smoking ban for me is that it's impossible to walk past or through a station entrance without having to smell someone smoking. Hospital entrances are the worst.

 

[dviner]

The worst thing about the smoking ban for me is that it's impossible to walk past or through a station entrance without having to smell someone smoking. Hospital entrances are the worst.

It's what I used to hate the most about using your namesake's station's Praed Street exit - all the people gathered around having either a pre-journey or post-journey fag.

 

[jopsuk]

I wonder if people vape onboard as I believe you can purchase odourless and virtually smokeless variants. ?

you can, and as far as I can tell there are two types of vapers:
those that want to quit smoking, who want the most inoffensive vapers and fluid they can get and importantly, breath in pretty much everything the vape produces.
those that are into vaping culture, who delight in flavoured vapour and producing massive clouds of the stuff.

The latter type will set off the smoke alarms, the former will if they're not very careful

 

[Butts]

What on Earth must they be smoking if they're at Crianlarich while thinking they're on their way to Kyle of Lochalsh?

Incidentally, I once heard the conductor of an Oban/Mallaig service arriving into Crianlarich warning over the PA that anyone who disembarked for a smoke on the platform wouldn't be allowed back on the train.

You spotted the deliberate mistake

That Conductor was probably an ex-smoker . It has been my experience that both Staff and Passengers avail themselves of a quick puff at Crianlarich.

 

[Butts]

Slightly O.T but vaping has been banned in any Whitbread establishments which includes their hotels and have spent a lot of money in their refurbs to include specialist smoke alarms that pick up smoke and vapour, very sensitive and will end up with a fine and your hotel stay cut short.

If you are referring to Premier Inns there is a simple way around that one. Put the shower on full heat close the bathroom door and puff to your hearts content. Bring a can of air freshener / deodrant and apply liberally afterwards to complete the "smoke cloak" mission.

 

[Antman]

The worst thing about the smoking ban for me is that it's impossible to walk past or through a station entrance without having to smell someone smoking.

I just feel pity for the addicts who are so dependant on getting a nicotine hit they need to smoke/vape right up to the very last moment.

 

[miami]

Whilst, as a smoker myself, I do respect and obey the rules about smoking on platforms, I am at a tiny bit of a loss as to why it's prohibited on outside unenclosed platforms? Would welcome any answers!

Because it stinks, it's dangerous to others, and the vast majority of smokers leave litter (especially when there is no bin)

When did I say that they had nothing to gain from the relaxation of the smoking ban? What I was trying to say was, what would they have to gain from telling one of their customers that the government were trying to relax the smoking ban, if it was an outright lie?

The government has a majority in the house of commons, if the government wants to change the ban, it can.

Mention was made of Brexit

This is the first sign of an ignorant person

Now I apologise if the mention of Brexit made me immediately think that the ban had something to do with the EU and I will admit I didn't really check the facts on that side of the law first.

On the whole anyone saying "the eu makes us..." or "eu rules mean..." should be avoided.

Wikipedia states:

A group calling themselves "Freedom To Choose", launched a campaign for a judicial review of the smoke-free workplace regulations claiming a breach of the Human Rights Act 1998, as it does not respect the right to privacy of people who wish to smoke in public. Supporters of the regulations put forward counter-arguments positing that the rights of smokers to indulge in their habit cease as soon as it negatively affects other people in the vicinity. In 2010 pub landlord Nick Hogan was jailed for an offence related to the smoking ban. In 2012 it was reported that "Five years after the introduction of the smoking ban in England, almost seven out of 10 licensees want the legislation amended to allow for separate smoking rooms in pubs".

So I suspect "they" refers to this group.

There is already some relaxation to an extent, prisons are as far as I know exempt as long as they are crown prisons, one of the tobacconists I visit has evenings where we can have a cigar in the shop, and at least one hotel chain still has smoking rooms although only one or two per hotel. The campaigning regarding the pubs is probably to do with the smoking ban being blamed on pub closures but to be honest were there not weekly closures of pubs before the ban?

These are the exceptions:

• designated hotel rooms
• designated rooms in nursing homes
• designated rooms in prisons
• designated rooms in offshore oil rigs
• specialist tobacconists in relation to sampling cigars and/or pipe tobacco.

I already know that the smoking ban was a British law, my brother once ran a pub and those who wished to light up could do so providing that they go into the designated room

If this was a pub in England, and this was after July 2007, there is no 'designated room'

which worked well until a resident nearby complained about certain individuals flouting the law. Needless to say that the pub eventually closed, to this day I still blame one of the residents nearby to destroyed a local business.

It sounds like the manager of the pub was breaking the law

Nick Hogan was a pub manager who broke the law, got fined, and sent to jail

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...eed-from-jail-after-punters-pay-his-fine.html

Speaking outside the prison, Hogan said: ''I'm devastated to be sent to jail. The smoking ban has cost me my pub, my job and my liberty.

Poor chap, the tobacco seems to have addled his brain. It was his choice to allow smoking in his pubs that cost him, not the ban. Both pubs still seem to be open.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

If this was a pub in England, and this was after July 2007, there is no 'designated room'.

This pub did have a spare room and that was used as a smokers room, it even had its own door - albeit a fire door but fresh air was allowed in.

Even the police knew about the room as the pub was in a rough part of West Yorkshire and that last thing that the pub goers wanted was someone attacking them.

 

[miami]

This pub did have a spare room and that was used as a smokers room, it even had its own door - albeit a fire door but fresh air was allowed in.

Even the police knew about the room as the pub was in a rough part of West Yorkshire and that last thing that the pub goers wanted was someone attacking them.

If the room was an outside area, then there's no legal reason for it to be shut down. If it was an enclosed area which he it sounds like, it was illegal and thus should be shut down.