Smoking

[Deepgreen]

A thread arising from my experiences of late. I use the North Downs line almost daily, and have experienced a significant number of train crews smoking on board. Last night, the 1743 from Redhill stank of cigarette smoke in the rear saloon, and at Reigate the guard (rather recklessly) flicked his ash out of the rear cab door window onto the platform.

Not impressed, and I have already reported the incident to GWR, hence my quoting the specifics here. Am I alone in noticing an insidious increase in train crew smoking? This applies to passengers on platforms as well, as I believe the bye-law states that platform signage must be displayed in order to enforce smoking (including 'vaping') bans?

 

[LowLevel]

I'm not sure if there has been an increase but it does my head in taking over a train with the cab covered in ash and stinking.

 

[swt class 450]

A thread arising from my experiences of late. I use the North Downs line almost daily, and have experienced a significant number of train crews smoking on board. Last night, the 1743 from Redhill stank of cigarette smoke in the rear saloon, and at Reigate the guard (rather recklessly) flicked his ash out of the rear cab door window onto the platform.

Not impressed, and I have already reported the incident to GWR, hence my quoting the specifics here. Am I alone in noticing an insidious increase in train crew smoking? This applies to passengers on platforms as well, as I believe the bye-law states that platform signage must be displayed in order to enforce smoking (including 'vaping') bans?

There is one particular Guard on the North Downs Line (possibly the same one who you saw yesterday) who seems to be smoking a cigarette almost every time i see him (as recently as last week). And just a few weeks ago he was even despatching the train while smoking a cigarette. In the past few years of using the North Downs Line i have seen four different Guards smoking cigarettes in the rear cab. It seems to be a common occurrance with Guards on this line.

 

[trainmania100]

I thought there were stickers in the cab saying no smoking?

 

[Deepgreen]

I thought there were stickers in the cab saying no smoking?

There may be, but certain people live by their own rules rather than respect others'.

 

[DelW]

In my (non rail related) work it's a disciplinary offence to smoke in any company vehicle. This even applies to company cars assigned to a single driver, although in that case the likelihood of being caught is small. When the smoking regulations came in, we were told we could refuse to travel in a vehicle where anyone was or had been smoking.

I would certainly object to train crews flouting the smoking ban like this, just as I would object if anyone tried it at my workplace.

 

[SA_900]

I really am flabbergasted. What is the world coming to. Are there any other threads on this? Extraordinary.

 

[najaB]

I thought there were stickers in the cab saying no smoking?

Forget the stickers, I'm pretty sure it's illegal.

 

[Deepgreen]

I really am flabbergasted. What is the world coming to. Are there any other threads on this? Extraordinary.

Are you objecting to the concept of illegal smoking by train crews, the perceived righteous indignation of people like me, or something else? I ask because I sense (wrongly, I hope) sarcasm here.

 

[SA_900]

Are you objecting to the concept of illegal smoking by train crews, the perceived righteous indignation of people like me, or something else? I ask because I sense (wrongly, I hope) sarcasm here.

No I am absolutely serious. Can't fathom why someone would sabotage their career like that.

 

[Deepgreen]

In my (non rail related) work it's a disciplinary offence to smoke in any company vehicle. This even applies to company cars assigned to a single driver, although in that case the likelihood of being caught is small. When the smoking regulations came in, we were told we could refuse to travel in a vehicle where anyone was or had been smoking.

I would certainly object to train crews flouting the smoking ban like this, just as I would object if anyone tried it at my workplace.

One thing about this that I find remarkable is the apparent perception by the offenders that they are not being detected! Quite apart from the inescapable conclusion that a strong smell of 'fresh' cigarette smoke must be coming from the staff when none of the passengers are smoking, to flick ash onto the platform is just stupid.

 

[jopsuk]

In my (non rail related) work it's a disciplinary offence to smoke in any company vehicle. This even applies to company cars assigned to a single driver, although in that case the likelihood of being caught is small. .

It's a disciplinary offence because it is against the law. Any vehicle owned, hired or leased by a company count as a workplace.

 

[Deepgreen]

No I am absolutely serious. Can't fathom why someone would sabotage their career like that.

Agreed - it's bizarre. Last night's train was quite late leaving Redhill, but even the timetabled turn-round would not allow a smoking break if the train was not to be left unattended - i.e. if the crew decamped to somewhere outside the station.

 

[dk1]

Every so often a member of Traincrew complains & there is a management purge with threats of dismissal but it soon dies a death & people go back to their old ways. Cab windows down on a very cold day is a good giveaway & extremely selfish on those taking over

 

[Tetchytyke]

No I am absolutely serious. Can't fathom why someone would sabotage their career like that.

Smokers can't smell the smoke, so they think they're not detectable. They think opening a window means nobody knows what they're doing. So they won't see it as sabotaging anything, so long as the tab end is out of the window long before a station.

But I agree, it is selfish and it is stupid.

 

[L&Y Robert]

Smokers can't smell the smoke, so they think they're not detectable.

I know if someone nearby is a smoker as soon as I get a whiff of their breath. It can be other passengers on trains, for example, or other shoppers in the supermarket. If it were visible, they'd be breathing out plumes of orange (let's say) fumes. Plumes of fumes!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Oh I agree, but smokers can't smell it on themselves so they think they're getting away undetected. The smell of stale smoke is horrible, only the smell of stale cannabis is worse, but they can't smell it. It's just everyone else who can.

 

[theblackwatch]

Would a member of staff who took over the 'fag ash' train be within their rights to refuse to work it?

 

[najaB]

Would a member of staff who took over the 'fag ash' train be within their rights to refuse to work it?

That's a good question - my gut feeling is 'Yes'.

 

[Swanny200]

That's a good question - my gut feeling is 'Yes'.

Problem would then be, if this line is full of smoking guards and to be honest possible smoking drivers too, if you reported it and was a smoker yourself, then your illegal activities would be outed. However if you were honest enough to report it non smoker or not, you incur the wrath of more than one colleague which would make your job very hard.

Even though it is illegal, it is a very catch 22 situation so some might turn a blind eye, a customer though is a different situation.

 

[infobleep]

I've seen people smoking on unmanned platforms before now but I wasn't going to do anything about it. By the time anyone could deal with it, they'd be gone.

 

[sjoh]

Whilst, as a smoker myself, I do respect and obey the rules about smoking on platforms, I am at a tiny bit of a loss as to why it's prohibited on outside unenclosed platforms? Would welcome any answers!

 

[Hadders]

Might be worth looking at the Smoke Free England Website. Management are responsible for taking reasonable steps to ensure the workplace stays smoke free.

http://www.smokefreeengland.co.uk/faq/enforcement/

The Smoke Free Compliance Line
Who Should We Contact if We See a Smoke Free Law Violation
If anyone believes that the Smoke Free law is not being met they should inform the manager or a member of staff at the premises involved in order to ensure that it will be dealt with immediately. If the incident is not dealt with or individuals wish they may contact the Smoke Free Compliance Line (Freephone) 0800 587 1667. This complaint will be passed onto the relevant local council or port health authority for investigation.

Calls last approximately three minutes and incidents are reported to councils daily via email.

 

[Joe Paxton]

I've seen people smoking on unmanned platforms before now but I wasn't going to do anything about it. By the time anyone could deal with it, they'd be gone.

I haven't got much of an issue with those smokers who head right down to the far end of a platform away from others to have a smoke. I guess for those staff (and others) who try and look out for vulnerable people, it could be a bit disconcerting - so maybe I'll modify my comment to say I don't have much of a problem with it at platforms where there aren't fast passing trains.

Come July it'll be ten years since the indoor smoking ban in England, which has undoubtedly helped change attitudes and behaviours when it comes to smoking.

 

[cf111]

I've seen people smoking on unmanned platforms before now but I wasn't going to do anything about it. By the time anyone could deal with it, they'd be gone.

As a non-smoker, and while I realise it's against the law, anyone smoking on an open-air, unmanned platform (staff or public) doesn't really bother me if they make the effort to move out of the way of any other people waiting.

Staff smoking smoking while in their work-place is another matter. Never mind anything else, leaving the cab covering in ash and smelling of cigarette smoke is really quite disrespectful towards their colleagues.

 

[Swanny200]

Rumours are abound that with the leaving of the EU that the ban would be relaxed for certain places, still not sure a train or works vehicle would be relaxed from it though

 

[amarshe]

Only it wasn't an EU ban.

All EU countries have made up their own laws - for instance you can still legally smoke in many Austrian/Czech bars and cafes.

 

[lejog]

Rumours are abound that with the leaving of the EU that the ban would be relaxed for certain places, still not sure a train or works vehicle would be relaxed from it though

That really is complete and utter nonsense, there are no EU smoking regulations. The UK has some of the strongest anti-smoking laws in the EU, but they are UK laws.

 

[Deepgreen]

Rumours are abound that with the leaving of the EU that the ban would be relaxed for certain places, still not sure a train or works vehicle would be relaxed from it though

I would imagine and hope that these would be among the least likely to be changed.

 

[185]

It may be of some comfort that a certain driver at a certain depot who used to do my head in every time we swapped ends did manage to almost self-combust after throwing his cig-butt out of the window.

....it came back in. Right into his coat which was hanging up behind.