Smokers on the train!

[SouthernCrescent]

I was on a train once and this guy opposite me (this was pre smoking law ban, but in a non smoking coach) said 'do you think anyone would mind if I smoked', he was lighting up as he asked me and I said 'yes, me'. Thankfully he took the hint.

 

[djw1981]

Merseyrail took someone to court for having her feet on the seat. Zero tolerance starts at the bottom

 

[me123]

Still a bit extreme, though. All that is needed is a "please remove your feet from the seats". If they don't comply/reoffend on that journey, then go to that stage, but its quite insane to take someone to court otherwise.

I notice FSR are starting a crackdown on this. More labels. Not that it makes much of a difference. No-one takes notice and the labels have been seen on carriage ceilings (by myself). Even the guards don't care.

 

[yorkie]

Merseyrail took someone to court for having her feet on the seat. Zero tolerance starts at the bottom

All that does is **** people off if smoking (which is illegal, dangerous and causes a huge inconvenience to other passengers) is not challenged yet a foot on a seat (relatively harmless) results in police removing pax from the train.

Where's the logic in that?

Deal with the criminals first before harassing harmless people.

Oh wait, this is Britain... Bugger

 

[djw1981]

It depends on the TOC. Personally I feel a 1 yr ban per offence would do nicely.

 

[AlexS]

Feet on the seat becomes a whole other issue if you sit in dog mess or similar that some trampy swine has left on the seat fabric from their shoes!

 

[90019]

Feet on the seat becomes a whole other issue if you sit in dog mess or similar that some trampy swine has left on the seat fabric from their shoes!

Indeed, that was mentioned in a reply to the post i quoted.
this was the response:

When they took my discription, it read 'Clean brown trainers'

 

[Tom B]

The difference between smoking and putting your feet on the seats etc is that smoking is a risk to both health (look at the rubbish that it puts into the air) and safety (look at King's Cross).

 

[WillPS]

I can see why having your feet up is banned, but it's hardly a huge issue. If a train is nearly empty at the end of the night and you're considerate (no muddy, wet or otherwise dirty shoes) then there really isn't a problem. Merseyrail are completely wasting court time with this nonsense.

 

[Mojo]

Didn't some Magistrates in Chester laugh them out of court?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/6977871.stm

 

[GB]

Didn't some Magistrates in Chester laugh them out of court?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/6977871.stm

Thank God someone saw sense!

 

[WillPS]

Have Merseyrail stopped this then? It does seem like a complete waste of time to me.

 

[djw1981]

Really?
Surely if we prosecuted for every offence the general level of disorder would go down.

Hence the zero tolerance approach to graffiti etc which makes trains feel safer and thus encourages more people to use it. Someone drinking on a train is a greater threat to your health during that journey than someone smoking. And unelss you sit to them every day, the cumulative effect of teh one journey is not that high.

However, on a social scale, the smoking is far worse normally.

 

[87015]

Someone drinking on a train is a greater threat to your health during that journey than someone smoking.

What?? How does someone else having a drink affect your health in the slightest??

Having a drink doesn't make you a drunken mess. Thats a TOTALLY different kettle of fish. :-x

Much rather have someone sit next to me and crack open a bottle than a pack of fags myself. As far as I'm aware you don't get toxic fumes from alcohol.

 

[me123]

Social factors for one thing. And the person drinking is more likely to injure you than they normally would be, the results of which are worse than a bit of passive smoking. Also, the drunkard is a threat to himself and others, which can cause panic amongst other passengers and staff. For those reasons, I'd be happy to ban alcohol from the railways except when served as part of a meal service.

Smoking has worse long term effects, but a bit of passive smoking's not going to kill you, whereas a drunk person might. In the long term, yes smoking has worse complications but in the short term there's probably not that many problems. That said, it's dirty, unpleasant, and you walk away smelling of tobacco. And, again, you're in a confined area. Of course, smoking should be banned on trains, but I think I see where djw is coming from on that one...

 

[The Snap]

I don't think that comment was meant in all seriousness.

I've seen guards smoking on their trains before.
Also had a group of about 5 drunks who were smoking. When the guard came to tell them not to, they hurled racist abuse at him.
Oh, and there were some smokers on the Christmas Cracker tour.

There are smokers on most railtours. We were in the second to front vestibule and a few blokes came out from the carriage, closed the door and had a fag in the vestibule with us! All very cramped, but funny all the same! (I know it is illegal and all, but it was pretty amusing!).

 

[djw1981]

There are probably more carcinogenic chemicals in the fumes from a clagging diesel than passive smoking from someone in the same carriage.......

So with that cat firmly set amongst the pigeons............

Perth & Kinross Licensing board wanted alcohol banned on all trains passing through the county. This would mean that the Highland Chieftain and all Glasgow - Inverness / Aberdeen, and Edinburgh-Inverness services would have been banned from serving alcohol, and no alcohol consumption would have been allowed on these services.

 

[samthegreencat]

Feet on the seat becomes a whole other issue if you sit in dog mess or similar that some trampy swine has left on the seat fabric from their shoes!

i never tell people to take their feet of the seats anymore after 24 years of doing so! you only get abuse or the person puts their shoes back on after the guard has gone.i once had a big guy threaten to slit my throat (at Poole) after he got off the train after i asked him politely to take his dirty boots of the seat.when i made BTP Bournemouth aware of what happened there attitude was "go away what do expect us to do about it" south west trains management dont give a **** and treat staff who get assaulted as if its their fault and "you went looking for it"is their attitude ,so why bother! sam the green cat (south west trains guard)

 

[GB]

Really?
Surely if we prosecuted for every offence the general level of disorder would go down.

Hence the zero tolerance approach to graffiti etc which makes trains feel safer and thus encourages more people to use it. Someone drinking on a train is a greater threat to your health during that journey than someone smoking. And unelss you sit to them every day, the cumulative effect of teh one journey is not that high.

However, on a social scale, the smoking is far worse normally.

Zero tolerance doesn't mean you should drag people through the courts and risk criminal proceedings over such a trivial matter, particulary when a penalty notice would work just as well or perhaps better.

I personly do not believe that somone having the odd drink is any where near as bad as people smoking. Unless of course there are large groups who are conintuely drinking/shouting etc etc

 

[driver9000]

Northern have just prosecuted their first smoker caught smoking on a station, may many more follow!

 

[djw1981]

Zero tolerance doesn't mean you should drag people through the courts and risk criminal proceedings over such a trivial matter, particulary when a penalty notice would work just as well or perhaps better.

I personly do not believe that somone having the odd drink is any where near as bad as people smoking. Unless of course there are large groups who are conintuely drinking/shouting etc etc

I doubt a fine will affect anyone much.. A penalty notice is only £20 or £50. You are not likely to be caught that often. Court plus name and shame works well when the operator, Police and courts work together - NEXUS in Tyne & Wear ave done this very effectively, processing 100-200 people per court blitz, with very short case times. The evidence of penalty notices is presented, the Magistrate asks for an explanation. Then he fines the person and gives NEXUS permission to do newspaper adverts and station posters with the name, age, street address and amount of fine on it.

Shouting ones are less likely to do any harm to you because people watch them. as has been recounted on here and other fora many times, it is the quiet people drinking on their own who cause the major issues, on deserted trains late at night. A group maybe rowdy but they are probably less of a threat due to their conspicuousness.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Do I understand that in England the whole station is a smoke free zone? In Scotland it is just under the shelters (due to the >50% enclosed rule), so uncovered platforms ends are still smoking areas IIRC.

 

[Mojo]

Do I understand that in England the whole station is a smoke free zone? In Scotland it is just under the shelters (due to the >50% enclosed rule), so uncovered platforms ends are still smoking areas IIRC.

It's only because of the Byelaws that the whole stations are smoke free. Under the English regulations only >50% enclosed would count, but presumably the operators have chosen to apply it to the entirety of the station for simplicity.

 

[me123]

There are "no smoking" signs at Blairhill shelter, yet the >50% rule does not apply there. Presumably that's for ease of enforcement/part of the byelaws.

 

[Gizmogle]

Northern have just prosecuted their first smoker caught smoking on a station, may many more follow!

I've seen many a Northern conductor smoking on stations!

 

[Stonesourscotty]

There was an Announcement today at Wigan wallgate about Smoking on the Platforms the Scouse ladies going to Kirkby then launched there cigarettes onto the Track in disgust because merseyrail have different rules to Northern or so im told?

 

[Guinness]

There was an Announcement today at Wigan wallgate about Smoking on the Platforms the Scouse ladies going to Kirkby then launched there cigarettes onto the Track in disgust because merseyrail have different rules to Northern or so im told?

Smoking is banned on ALL Mainline stations in the UK including Platforms.

 

[me123]

In the UK? Including Scotland?

If so, I know an otherwise really good FSR traincrew have a lot of explaining to do.

 

[rail-britain]

Perth & Kinross Licensing board wanted alcohol banned on all trains passing through the county. This would mean that the Highland Chieftain and all Glasgow - Inverness / Aberdeen, and Edinburgh-Inverness services would have been banned from serving alcohol, and no alcohol consumption would have been allowed on these services.

Twenty guesses which member of Stagecoach Board also sits on that Licensing Board!
Completely unworkable application

 

[Mojo]

In England & Wales at least, trains in service are not subject to the same licensing as pubs & clubs are.

 

[djw1981]

Twenty guesses which member of Stagecoach Board also sits on that Licensing Board!
Completely unworkable application

Was it one of the 2 who paid themselves ~£3m (between them) last year whilst saying that it was a 'tough year ahead'?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Upon the Scottish legislation coming into force, First ScotRail chose to
impose more onerous restrictions on smoking than were required by the
legislation, thus at most stations the smoking ban has been extended to
include platforms and station footbridges entirely, even where these are
uncovered.

Experience over the last 12 months has been that the Scottish public have
broadly accepted this ban and there have been no significant difficulties
encountered in enforcing it. Given this, ATOC’s members have agreed to
extend the ban to all platforms and station footbridges within England and
Wales, this change either coinciding with or anticipating the coming into
force of the legislation.

http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/docushare/dsweb/Get/Rail-41468/Gpg015.pdf