Smokers on the train!

[466.networkers]

*Not sure where to put this, if it's not meant to be here, can a mod move it. Ta! *

I was traveling on the 1707 Sittingbourne to Sheerness service which was formed as usual of a 466.

I alighted at Kemsley to find a group of 3 people sitting in the area behind the driver's cab of the leading coach. As soon as I got on, I noticed a smell of tobacco in the air and thought someone near me had recently had a cigarette, but to my horror, these 3 people were sitting there all smoking!

One of the group also had a near empty bottle of Jack Daniels Tennessee Whiskey and was smoking, drinking from said bottle and singing very badly.

I then began to worry as there were a young couple in the other doorway with a pushchair with 2 young children! (I had my bike against the other doors, I know I shouldn't really, but where else do I put my fully sized Saracen mountain bike? )

Anyone got any comments about this matter, is this a common sight on our beloved railways of today?

Thanks
Ryan

 

[paul1609]

In my limited experience its a fairly common experience on "The Pikey Express" as I believe the Sheppey Shuttle is known. I hope you had arranged a Police Escort if you were alighting at Kemsley and were wearing native clothing ( white adidas tracksuit bottoms etc.)

 

[466.networkers]

Right.
1) I am not a chav! So what if I live on Sheppey, doesn't say I'm a chav!
2) I was wearing my work uniform which is a damn site better than the typical chav outfit!
3) No police escort, also no sign of the bloody guard!

 

[Muttley]

Why has this upset you ?

 

[466.networkers]

Cos I hate it when people immediately associate all the inhabitants of Sheppey as chavs when they're not all like that!

Anyway, back on topic ...

 

[Gizmogle]

I don't think that comment was meant in all seriousness.

I've seen guards smoking on their trains before.
Also had a group of about 5 drunks who were smoking. When the guard came to tell them not to, they hurled racist abuse at him.
Oh, and there were some smokers on the Christmas Cracker tour.

 

[Mojo]

If you report someone smoking to the person in charge (that can include the Driver on DOO trains, for example) and they fail to act, then the law allows for them to be prosecuted. Obviously their actions would depend on the individual situation - if it's a group of troublemakers then I am sure an announcement would do the job - saves all the trouble later.

 

[yorkie]

Well my comments are that I'd challenge them unless I felt it would put me in danger in which case I'd inform the guard or call the police as appropriate.

I caught about 5 people on Retro Railtours, and all of them stopped except the guy I caught for a 2nd time who argued back. However he soon backed down. I don't tolerate it. I can detect it quite easily too.

By the way don't take Paul1609's comments too seriously - he certainly wasn't directing it at you personally!

 

[TEW]

I don't think that comment was meant in all seriousness.

I've seen guards smoking on their trains before.
Also had a group of about 5 drunks who were smoking. When the guard came to tell them not to, they hurled racist abuse at him.
Oh, and there were some smokers on the Christmas Cracker tour.

Two of the most annoying people smoking on the train for me:

Staff as they should know the rules.
People on railtours as a lot are enthusiasts and should no better.

 

[yorkie]

What did the guard say when you challenged him/her?

 

[Gizmogle]

Couldn't agree with you more, Conner.

 

[466.networkers]

Mojo - I was toying with the idea of using the passenger alarm as I was right underneath it, but the group were quite close and within earshot and I didn't particulary fancy ratting on them and then being threatened by one or more of them! And I couldn't move down the carriage to the other doors as 1) I was not going to leave my bike out of sight and 2) the train was packed, lots of people in the doorways.

Yorkie - Ok, ta, sorry about that, not exactly happy at this current time!

Conner - I agree there mate, shame the conductor was safely in the rear cab, didn't see him except when he poked his head out to do the doors!

 

[yorkie]

I would have said "inform the guard" but I realise the train was packed and you had a bike so not practical. The only thing worth adding about the train being packed is that if you do challenge people like that, you will get people sticking up for you.

I wouldn't challenge someone if there was no-one around but on a packed train (or tram) then I will certainly consider it.

I once challenged a complete nutcase who was refusing to comply with two RPIs, thus delaying our tram on the Metrolink. I would not have challenged him had the tram been empty but the tram was packed so I thought 'why not?' loads of people then joined in telling him to get off and eventually he did. Once off the tram he was alone with the RPIs and he put his head right up to them so I dialled 999. If I was those RPIs I would not have got off alone with him. Safety in numbers...

 

[466.networkers]

Well, I reckon the guard saw what the group were like at Sittingbourne and decided to stay in the safety and warmth of the rear cab. Surely that counts as the guard not doing their job correctly and efficiently?

 

[Coxster]

If you report someone smoking to the person in charge (that can include the Driver on DOO trains, for example) and they fail to act, then the law allows for them to be prosecuted.

Driver on DOO train gets a complaint about (for example) youths smoking and/or drinking.

In order to avoid prosecution, the driver exits his cab and asks the youths to stop; but the group gangs up on the single driver, beats them and knocks them unconcious.

There is now effectively no member of staff on board the train. What a great situation that'd be....

 

[yorkie]

466.networkers - maybe. but maybe he didn't see them. Also does he need to be at the other end to work the doors?

Coxster - I'd doubt the driver would be duty bound to challenge them face to face, as you say that would not seem sensible. A PA announcement would surely suffice. If they still refused, well the police could be called but chances are they'd get away with it, but that's all the driver could do and I don't think anyone would suggest otherwise.

 

[466.networkers]

Yes Yorkie, in a Networker you have to go to the rear cab to close the doors (whereas in an Electrostar there are several points along the train where you can open/close the doors and contact the driver).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Update - I have sent Southeastern a complaint using the feedback for on their website, I will post what response I receive, if any.

Ta.

 

[WillPS]

Disgusting and unacceptable.

A couple of times I've been at Worksop and somebody has been smoking on the platform as the train pulls in, but the guards on the Robin Hood Line seem pretty good about telling them that they'll be fined if they're seen smoking again.

Never had somebody smoking on board - although I'm guilty myself of enjoying a drink on the train.

 

[466.networkers]

Again, I think in the Railway Byelaws the consumption of any alcohol beverage is against the law (as is smoking, and playing loud music through a speaker (not headphones ))

 

[Dennis]

Again, I think in the Railway Byelaws the consumption of any alcohol beverage is against the law

???? you can buy it on trains and at platform retail outlets so I don't think it is banned.

 

[Zamracene749]

Again, I think in the Railway Byelaws the consumption of any alcohol beverage is against the law (as is smoking, and playing loud music through a speaker (not headphones ))

Unless the rules have changed very recently, the opposite is true- drinking is permitted apart from on specific services (eg football derby day services etc) and then i think the ban has to be applied for in advance?
Once upon a time a train was the only place in the uk where you could legally buy drink outside of licenced hours.
However under the public order acts you can be arrested for being drunk on public transport systems so if they were being abusive then they could have been arrested.

 

[466.networkers]

Whoops, seems like I've made a mistake, I'll have a look and see.

 

[jopsuk]

Again, I think in the Railway Byelaws the consumption of any alcohol beverage is against the law

Wrong! You can, for a start, buy alcoholic beverages on at least some services on I think every ToC except London Overground. Basically, if there's a catering trolley, they'll almost certainly sell beer, wine and spirits.

 

[yorkie]

Again, I think in the Railway Byelaws the consumption of any alcohol beverage is against the law (as is smoking, and playing loud music through a speaker (not headphones ))

Do you have a link to these byelaws?

 

[ungreat]

Well, I reckon the guard saw what the group were like at Sittingbourne and decided to stay in the safety and warmth of the rear cab. Surely that counts as the guard not doing their job correctly and efficiently?

Sorry to be negative here,but on our late nighters I am alone..sure,I don't mind fronting up to a few folk,but a gang is definately not going to get my attention..I don't want to be stabbed any more than you do.

Go ahead,report the guard...I guarantee you will make enemies of rail staff more than the muppets you wanted stopped,as word spreads...

What is it with some enthusiasts,reporting staff..dont you realise you can be,and often are,our only allies? Its all very well saying"Ooh,the guard/driver/RPI had a fag in the cab..Im going to tell and he/she didnt tackle those 30 ****heads that were wrecking the train"..would YOU tackle them? On your own? All we can do is delay the train(more ****) and call the BTP..which by the time they got there they would have legged it.

Seriously,think about your actions when it comes to stuff like this..by all means tell the train crew,but dont expect RoboCop style revenge when the poor sods are probably on their own.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Again, I think in the Railway Byelaws the consumption of any alcohol beverage is against the law (as is smoking, and playing loud music through a speaker (not headphones ))

No it isn't

The consumption of alcohol is banned on the Underground...nowhere else


I suggest these Byelaws you are reading get updated pronto!!

And neither is music,unless in a designated quiet coach like NXEC have

 

[samthegreencat]

*Not sure where to put this, if it's not meant to be here, can a mod move it. Ta! *

I was traveling on the 1707 Sittingbourne to Sheerness service which was formed as usual of a 466.

I alighted at Kemsley to find a group of 3 people sitting in the area behind the driver's cab of the leading coach. As soon as I got on, I noticed a smell of tobacco in the air and thought someone near me had recently had a cigarette, but to my horror, these 3 people were sitting there all smoking!

One of the group also had a near empty bottle of Jack Daniels Tennessee Whiskey and was smoking, drinking from said bottle and singing very badly.

I then began to worry as there were a young couple in the other doorway with a pushchair with 2 young children! (I had my bike against the other doors, I know I shouldn't really, but where else do I put my fully sized Saracen mountain bike? )

Anyone got any comments about this matter, is this a common sight on our beloved railways of today?

Thanks
Ryan

sadly this is NORMAL behaviour on todays railways.going by the description of where these people are sat in the train its most likely they have no tickets either!(sat at the front the furtherest away from the guard (if there is a guard on the train)!If there is a guard and he has the only options of releasing the doors from the back cab,then these people are sat where their least likely to get their tickets asked for ,as the guard has to walk back to release the doors at each stop,through four carraiges ,and if theres only a short time between stops the guards got no chance!Also most guards these days will turn a blind eye these days because 1 staff being assaultled is a every day occurrence,2 the train companies dont want to know as it costs them money,(extra security etc,cameras ,sickness pay for the time off for the guard assaulted)3 most train companies will give absolute no backing to staff assaulted,in fact their more likely to be sacked ,as the companies attitude is "you went looking for it" or "you should have walked off and left them to it" .this is the norm with train companies ,so its no wonder train staff do nothing!sam the green cat (a south west trains guard)

 

[GB]

The part about a driver or guard being prosecuted for not preventing passengers smoking is not strictly true. That particular part of the legislation is desgined to prosecute managers/supervisors for not preventing thier staff from smoking within prohibited areas.

Its all well and good saying the train crew didnt do thier job, but untill you are in that situation you have no idea actually how difficult it is.

All you do is risk getting verbal or physical abuse, risk of suspension (or worse) if they make a complaint against you or you try and defend yourself. Police and security are minimal at best and you cannot always count on them to actually turn up, let alone turn up in a reasonable time frame.

No one likes letting these louts get aways with things and we all try not to, but sometimes its the lessers of two evils.

 

[glynn80]

Mojo - I was toying with the idea of using the passenger alarm as I was right underneath it, but the group were quite close and within earshot and I didn't particulary fancy ratting on them and then being threatened by one or more of them! And I couldn't move down the carriage to the other doors as 1) I was not going to leave my bike out of sight and 2) the train was packed, lots of people in the doorways.

Yorkie - Ok, ta, sorry about that, not exactly happy at this current time!

Conner - I agree there mate, shame the conductor was safely in the rear cab, didn't see him except when he poked his head out to do the doors!

You were going to pull the passenger alarm because you don't like the smell of smoke? Seriously although smoking is illegal in public places now and its a slight nuisance, it really isn't something to get too worked up about. It's like people talking loudly on their mobiles or putting their feet on the seats, you wouldn't consider seriosuly delaying a train for trivial matters like that and I think smoking is the same.

 

[me123]

Please do not abuse other members on this forum. This includes derogatory comments and any prejudices that you may have. I have already deleted an offensive post. Please keep things on topic. Any further abuse, and I will take action. You have been warned.

Thanks.

 

[90019]

It's like people talking loudly on their mobiles or putting their feet on the seats, you wouldn't consider seriosuly delaying a train for trivial matters like that and I think smoking is the same.

This just reminded me of a post from another forum:

I am apparently one of the biggest threats in the country.

Today I was hoisted off a train by two police officers, who then gave me a stern talking too and even gave me a fully fledged caution. My crime?

This is a good one, seriously.

I WAS ASLEEP WITH A FOOT ON THE CHAIR!

Apparently it is now a crime to do this, and instead of just being told to keep your feet off, you actually get a caution and maybe even a fine depending on how national rail feel about you and whether your lucky or not. That gives me something to look forward to in the post.

Now I can understand if I was a drunk, or playing loud music or being obnoxious... but it was a near empty carridge. I had no music on, smartly dressed, just clearly knackered from having been up since 8 travelling through London and not sleeping that well. They didn't tell me off when I started laughing at it all though, I dont think they wanted to be their any more then I did. Even had those cute little head camera things in case i turned nasty!

All I can say is, im glad I wasnt a Brazillian electrician, or I might not be here to type this.

So, is this the fabled nanny state and Orwellian police tactics I read so much about?