Siemens for Eurostar

[WatcherZero]

The livery of the chunnel test train emerging with ICE written in Union Jacks made me want to puke....

 

[Goldfish62]

The livery of the chunnel test train emerging with ICE written in Union Jacks made me want to puke....

Why? I think it's fantastic. A proper train coming to the UK.

 

[gordonthemoron]

The livery of the chunnel test train emerging with ICE written in Union Jacks made me want to puke....

it's quite obviously photoshopped
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
or perhaps not

 

[MCR247]

It isn't photoshopped, here it is in Germany http://www.pictureupload.de/originals/pictures/121010122451_DSCF4739__2_.JPG

 

[Pumbaa]

The French are getting more vocal...

http://railwayeye.blogspot.com/2010/10/surrender-monkeys-fury-unabated.html

 

[YorkshireBear]

do they have the power to do this?

 

[Crossforth]

do they have the power to do this?

I sure hope not.

There is regulation of competition and then there is dictatorship

 

[TGV]

Don't believe everything you read...

 

[monkey]

^^It better not be true. just more evidence of the french making a right tit of themselves and rubbing the whole world up the wrong way...

 

[j0hn0]

I said a while ago that the "safety" restrictions in the tunnel were merely to ensure that only Eurostars, built by Alstom could use the tunnel.

Dismissed at the time but I think this is clearly protectionism

 

[starrymarkb]

I wonder if the French would have objections to distributed traction if it were AGVs instead.

BTW have they managed to sell any yet?

 

[Daimler]

I wonder if the French would have objections to distributed traction if it were AGVs instead.

BTW have they managed to sell any yet?

Indeed, I believe an Italian company is already taking delivery (can't remember if it's the main operator or another though).

 

[Aictos]

I said a while ago that the "safety" restrictions in the tunnel were merely to ensure that only Eurostars, built by Alstom could use the tunnel.

Dismissed at the time but I think this is clearly protectionism

Sounds like Virgin on the West Coast, obviously someone in the French government has been taking notes!

 

[j0hn0]

Sounds like Virgin on the West Coast, obviously someone in the French government has been taking notes!

absolutely

 

[T163R]

The French State is quite cross with Eurostar because it thinks that Siemens trains are not suitable for the Channel Tunnel. According to the French State, Siemens trains are not secure enough...

 

[asylumxl]

Not secure enough?

Do they think illegal immigrants are going to climb onto the train at 100mph cos the doors insecure?

 

[starrymarkb]

Not secure enough?

Do they think illegal immigrants are going to climb onto the train at 100mph cos the doors insecure?

He means safe - French for Safe (as in not dangerous) is sécurité, it is also the word for Security (as in locked up)!

 

[asylumxl]

Fair enough. Still imagine the Velaro is no less safe than the AGV.

 

[Kingfisher200262]

Regardless of all the politics, the fact remains that until the tests are completed with ICE3 through the tunnel and, assuming it is deemed to be safe, the safety rules changed to accommodate Velaro, the Eurostar is the only passenger train (unless you class the Shuttle as a passenger train) that is certified to carry passengers.

On that basis, I think Eurostar has taken quite a risk in ordering the trains from Siemens BEFORE the testing by DB. I can't see any specific time constraint that forced them to order when they did, other than, maybe the price of the Siemens products increasing when they are approved for use, because of their increased usefulness. This, in itself is a bit of a puzzle.

Everybody (including Alstom with its AGV apparently) seems to be of the view that distributed traction is the way forward, so the sooner this thorny issue of tunnel safety is resolved, the better. After all, there's another, even longer tunnel currently being built between Switzerland and Italy (the Gotthard Base Tunnel, due to open in 2017) and I'm sure there are some who would like to experience through trains at high speed from London to Milan etc.

 

[monkey]

On that basis, I think Eurostar has taken quite a risk in ordering the trains from Siemens BEFORE the testing by DB. I can't see any specific time constraint that forced them to order when they did, other than, maybe the price of the Siemens products increasing when they are approved for use, because of their increased usefulness. This, in itself is a bit of a puzzle.

...as far as I am aware the velaro has been already approved through the tunnel provided it's of the normal full length like the current 373's are. The new Velaros that the ICE3 is, were designed to that specification from the beginning. the tests are being done because DB wants to use shorter trains...

 

[T163R]

I think the main problem is fiability.

 

[gordonthemoron]

The new e320 will meet the current Tunnel minimum train length requirements, whereas the current Eurostar sets actually do not. Eurostars are 375 metres long which is the distance between the evacuation routes in the Tunnel. However, about 60 metres of the train length consists of power cars which are not accessible by passengers, so the actual lenth of the passenger compartment is about 315 metres. Whereas the e320 is 400 metres long and only a small fraction of each end car is inaccessible. Perhaps the existing E* trains should be banned?

 

[Daimler]

The new e320 will meet the current Tunnel minimum train length requirements, whereas the current Eurostar sets actually do not. Eurostars are 375 metres long which is the distance between the evacuation routes in the Tunnel. However, about 60 metres of the train length consists of power cars which are not accessible by passengers, so the actual lenth of the passenger compartment is about 315 metres. Whereas the e320 is 400 metres long and only a small fraction of each end car is inaccessible. Perhaps the existing E* trains should be banned?

Surely if required in an emergency, passengers would be allowed to access evacuation doors through the power cars...

 

[gordonthemoron]

evacuating 750 people through a power car seems madness, it's bad enough evacuating 460 people through the front door of an ICE3

 

[EWS 58038]

On ****ter I heard Eurotunnel is pleased with the good ICE Evacuation test results. Trainwas evacuated in the region of 20 minutes, where 90 minutes is the current upper safety limit.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Is that 20 minutes for the full 16 car formation of 2 x ICE and does it include getting everyone into the service tunnel, or simply off the ICE onto the evacuation platform adjacent to the train?

 

[TGV]

The new e320 will meet the current Tunnel minimum train length requirements, whereas the current Eurostar sets actually do not. Eurostars are 375 metres long which is the distance between the evacuation routes in the Tunnel. However, about 60 metres of the train length consists of power cars which are not accessible by passengers, so the actual lenth of the passenger compartment is about 315 metres. Whereas the e320 is 400 metres long and only a small fraction of each end car is inaccessible. Perhaps the existing E* trains should be banned?

Please tell me you're joking.

At least do better research. A class 373/1 is 394m long. The power cars are 22m in length.

Therefore the remainder 394-(22 x 2) = 350m not 315m.

Additionally - you have no evidence whatsoever that the new sets will be *exactly* 400m. The existing trains are often quoted as "400m" long as it's rounded up. The new ones could even be shorter by a small amount.

 

[EWS 58038]

Is that 20 minutes for the full 16 car formation of 2 x ICE and does it include getting everyone into the service tunnel, or simply off the ICE onto the evacuation platform adjacent to the train?

From what I heard they did several tests. One was to disembark one train and to get people into the second unit. That was done in something like 20 minutes. Not bad at all.

Eurostar and DB are working closely together on this, Eurostar senior staff was monitoring the tests and knowledge is shared by both parties. It sure looks the two are working hard to get the Siemens trains safety case for the tunnel.

It was also announced Eurostar will conduct some further testing next year with a Velaro D.

 

[charlesn132]

I wonder:
1) What class the new Eurostars will be
2) Whether they will need AWS/TPWS

 

[jopsuk]

1) No idea. Numbering follows no rhyme nor reason much of the time (witness the Electrostars mainly cramming into 375-379- plus 357- whilst the AC Desiros are 350, 360 and 380).

2) Pretty sure the answer is "no"- think the International and High Speed platforms at St P use a French domestic signalling system.
Edit: here's the system used- they'll need to be fitted for that