O L Leigh
Established Member
My understanding was it was as a result of the power draw. Eurostars are greedy buggers and had a habit of sucking all the juice out of the overheads to the detriment of other services.
O L Leigh
O L Leigh
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Siemens for Eurostar
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Crossforth
Established Member
Surely if you replace the pantographs with ones like the 91s (I know there will be some reason why we can't) or like something else currently in service, surely they will be OK as the 91s are now
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Ah, like why the 91s can't be used on the Skipton services?
OMGitsDAVE
Member
Harrogate isn't electrified, hence why only diesel is used on those services.
Perfectly true, but Crossforth was talking about Skipton services not Harrogate services! Yes, Skipton electrification can't give enough power for a 225 set to operate without causing the rest of the electric service to stop. It was the same with the LU Ongar branch - power supply was just about OK for one train to start, but two starting at the same time would try to draw more than available.
But the line Skipton is, but the 91s can't be used on those services because the OHLE power supply isn't good enough and the 91s tend to suck all the juice out of the line.
Also Skipton is is on the Settle to Carlise line whilst Harrogate is on a seperate line.
Kingfisher200262
Member
Surely it's a function of how much power the loco draws. Any electric vehicle has an ability to take 0 MW to x MW of power from the OHLE, depending upon how much welly the driver gives it. If there was a working instruction to use no more than, say Notch 3 power on the Skipton route, wouldn't it be possible for Class 91s to work this route?
Kingfisher200262
Member
I know, but is super fast acceleration that important on a route which is shared with Pacers?
Electricity tends to flow to whatever either uses the most power or where it faces the least resistance. Hook up an arc welder to your lighting circuit, all the lights go out. Basically, unless you isolate half the traction motors, it won't be possible to run a 91 down there without a power upgrade.
Which backs up what I said surely.
I don't know the reason why as I don't know the area, I am only repeating what has been discussed on here in the past.
starrymarkb
Established Member
IIRC the Skipton knitting was specified for the anticipated usage of a few EMUs. The idea of sending a 91 up there only came about afterwards
Goldfish62
Veteran Member
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Nice one! Eurostar is unveiling a new livery to go with its mid-life refurb, so I wonder if it'll bear any resemblance to this.
asylumxl
Established Member
If it does, i'm taking legal action! :-x
TGV
Member
The E* issue on ECML was partly power consumption and partly to do with the OHL quality. The real issue was that it was the only rolling stock running on the ECML at over 100mph with TWO pantographs raised in normal operation. The first pantograph set up an oscillation in the overheads (as all pantographs do), but this led to the trailing power car struggling to pick up current from the wire because it was vibrating like a guitar string. 365's run with 2 pans raised in close proximity, but only up to 100mph - and even then, the trailing pan head will still exhibit more of a problem, but the 373's struggled because LGV overheads for which it was designed are strung tighter.
If you ever stood next to the ECML and watched a 373 passing, the front pantograph would behave just as the one on a 91 would (leading one to suspect that it's no better, or worse), but the trailing one would often look like a bonfire night sparkler by comparison.
Replacing the Faiveley units on the E*'s with the Brecknell Willis ones on the 91's wouldn't do anything - both are excellent designs and work well - the uplift force would be the key issue and from what I know of both units, the uploft force is very vey similar.
If you ever stood next to the ECML and watched a 373 passing, the front pantograph would behave just as the one on a 91 would (leading one to suspect that it's no better, or worse), but the trailing one would often look like a bonfire night sparkler by comparison.
Replacing the Faiveley units on the E*'s with the Brecknell Willis ones on the 91's wouldn't do anything - both are excellent designs and work well - the uplift force would be the key issue and from what I know of both units, the uploft force is very vey similar.
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
Asylumxl, I really like that Photoshopping you have done; the livery seems to suit that design better than it suits the 373s! It also reminds me a lot of British Caledonian Airways.
asylumxl
Established Member
Thank you. Shame I'm not employed to design their liveries. They'll employ some massive design company and it'll come out pants.
j0hn0
Member
That livery on the velaro looks ghastly, just like it does on the eurostars. They seriously need a brand update.
My opinion of this is that I do NOT want to travel on a Velaro for that long. If Eurostar could somehow use the same seat angle and height as they do in the current tgvs and eurostars, then I would use them.
Any longer than an hour in a velaro and my cocyxx is ready to fall off. The seats look lovely, but every long distance I travel on those trains results in terrible back/backside pain.
My opinion of this is that I do NOT want to travel on a Velaro for that long. If Eurostar could somehow use the same seat angle and height as they do in the current tgvs and eurostars, then I would use them.
Any longer than an hour in a velaro and my cocyxx is ready to fall off. The seats look lovely, but every long distance I travel on those trains results in terrible back/backside pain.
gordonthemoron
Established Member
christ, that image of a Velaro-D in E* colours is hideous.
Was on an ICE1 yesterday (they have the same seats as ICE3s now) for 5h 45m with no problem, the return 7h on an aging IC was another story though
Was on an ICE1 yesterday (they have the same seats as ICE3s now) for 5h 45m with no problem, the return 7h on an aging IC was another story though
asylumxl
Established Member
I may come up with my own modern version of the e* livery later.
j0hn0
Member
christ, that image of a Velaro-D in E* colours is hideous.
Was on an ICE1 yesterday (they have the same seats as ICE3s now) for 5h 45m with no problem, the return 7h on an aging IC was another story though
ouch, boards with springs
Maybe seat height is the issue with my body. The seats do seem low in an ICE3 to me and when I once had a short trip on an ICE1, they didnt seem as low.
Goldfish62
Veteran Member
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I
I'm the opposite. I love the ICE seating, particularly ICE 2,, but find the TGV seating uncomfortable and too low. I'm average height.
I'm the opposite. I love the ICE seating, particularly ICE 2,, but find the TGV seating uncomfortable and too low. I'm average height.
j0hn0
Member
Interesting, so it seems neither are perfect, perhaps highlighting a major obstacle to travelling long distance on a train.
Can they not work on a fully adjustable seat? DB already have reclining seats in standard class, would it be too much to ask for the seats to be height adjustable too? and with lumbar supports?
I think I read that the Japanese are thinking about lumbar supports in their trains, I think the Germans and French need to do that too
I think it's called protectionism....
^^its just part of the general hypocrisy many western nations have towards so called free market rules. nations like france unshamedly protect their industries, yet when developing nation does somethign similar (something in my view, which is beneficial in the context), they are made out to be backwards, unprogressive and undeomocratic...
j0hn0
Member
having lived in Germany and Holland, they only follow which rules suit them. eg, In Germany there are specially designated smoking bars whereas here we are told that under no circumstance shall smoking be allowed in a public space.
Also, like the French, they both protect their national assets. The dutch are the master capitalists whilst I would argue that the Germans, Italians and French have a certain prowess when it comes to building trains and cars wouldn't you agree?
They are all shamelessly nationalistic, but looking at their results of previous protectionism, I would argue that this is indeed the right way to go rather than having all of our assets not domestically owned.
Alstom, Siemens, Renault, Peugeot/Citroen, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Porsche, Ansaldo, Fiat/Ferrari
Whereas all of our companies have been sold off to the highest bidder.
No wait, I'm being racist now right??!
Also, like the French, they both protect their national assets. The dutch are the master capitalists whilst I would argue that the Germans, Italians and French have a certain prowess when it comes to building trains and cars wouldn't you agree?
They are all shamelessly nationalistic, but looking at their results of previous protectionism, I would argue that this is indeed the right way to go rather than having all of our assets not domestically owned.
Alstom, Siemens, Renault, Peugeot/Citroen, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Porsche, Ansaldo, Fiat/Ferrari
Whereas all of our companies have been sold off to the highest bidder.
No wait, I'm being racist now right??!
We seem to, yet nobody else does.
Either we say sod it and look after our own businesses, or we try and force the others too. It's a nonsense situation at the moment.
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