Should speed through mainline stations be slower?

[Philip]

Did trains used to slow down to around 60mph when passing through Milton Keynes 5-10 years ago? I'm sure I can remember the train greatly reducing speed and trundling through there before speeding up again, although not in recent years.

 

[Ianno87]

Did trains used to slow down to around 60mph when passing through Milton Keynes 5-10 years ago? I'm sure I can remember the train greatly reducing speed and trundling through there before speeding up again, although not in recent years.

I recall there was a 90mph Temporary Speed Restriction on the Down Fast Line immediately north of the station that lasted for a while between 2010 and 2012.

 

[Hadders]

I’d say no. Places like Stevenage have seen trains pass at 125 mph for many years, and it isn’t really an issue. It isn’t worth the time and capacity penalty.

Quite. The island platform layout at Stevenage mean every passenger using the station uses a platform where trains pass at 125mph.

Did trains used to slow down to around 60mph when passing through Milton Keynes 5-10 years ago? I'm sure I can remember the train greatly reducing speed and trundling through there before speeding up again, although not in recent years.

No they didn't. If you slow trains down at Milton Keynes are you going to do the same at Leighton Buzzard, Cheddington, Hemel Hempstead etc. I'm sorry but it's just not feasible.

 

[zwk500]

Did trains used to slow down to around 60mph when passing through Milton Keynes 5-10 years ago? I'm sure I can remember the train greatly reducing speed and trundling through there before speeding up again, although not in recent years.

I still don't see why slowing EVERY train down is a better solution (or any solution at all) to this problem, which is so easily solved by waiting in the coffee shop, where there is a bar and seats!

 

[Ianno87]

I still don't see why slowing EVERY train down is a better solution (or any solution at all) to this problem, which is so easily solved by waiting in the coffee shop, where there is a bar and seats!

Yes. A more practical solution is to minimise the number of passengers entering the platform more than a few minutes before the train is due. Which most passengers don't do anyway.

 

[Bald Rick]

Did trains used to slow down to around 60mph when passing through Milton Keynes 5-10 years ago? I'm sure I can remember the train greatly reducing speed and trundling through there before speeding up again, although not in recent years.

If that happened, it would have been due to temporary speed restrictions, possibly connected with the remodelling 15 or so years ago.

Also it is possible that fast trains run more slowly through due to following one that has just stopped, and it is therefore on restrictive aspects.

 

[Royston Vasey]

I’d say no. Places like Stevenage have seen trains pass at 125 mph for many years, and it isn’t really an issue. It isn’t worth the time and capacity penalty.

Is it not 110 mph at Stevenage?

 

[Bald Rick]

Is it not 110 mph at Stevenage?

125 on the fasts.
75 on the slows.

 

[Ianno87]

Is it not 110 mph at Stevenage?

125mph starts on the Fasts north of Woolmer Green.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Quite. The island platform layout at Stevenage mean every passenger using the station uses a platform where trains pass at 125mph.

No longer the case with the 'bay' platform for the Hertford North trains.

This does, of course, illustrate the issue that cross-platform interchange creates unless all trains on both platforms (disregarding freight) stop.

At Surbiton in the Up direction there is usually a 'warden' on duty, at least at busy times of day, to discourage people from standing too close to the Up Fast.

 

[Royston Vasey]

125.

125mph starts on the Fasts north of Woolmer Green.

Stood on that yellow line many a time. Are they typically at 125 by Stevenage? HSTs and 225s never quite seemed to be at 125, perhaps Azumas get there with their superior acceleration.

 

[CW2]

I recall there was a 90mph Temporary Speed Restriction on the Down Fast Line immediately north of the station that lasted for a while between 2010 and 2012.

When the MK remodelling was completed in January 2010 the Down Fast linespeed was 125 mph. After a few months part of the newly laid track on the Down Fast just north of the station settled a bit, causing a bumpy ride. Identitying and resolving the issue took many months, hence there was the 90mph TSR mentioned. Once the problem had been sorted, the linespeed was lifted back to 125 EPS as designed.

 

[Ianno87]

When the MK remodelling was completed in January 2010 the Down Fast linespeed was 125 mph. After a few months part of the newly laid track on the Down Fast just north of the station settled a bit, causing a bumpy ride. Identitying and resolving the issue took many months, hence there was the 90mph TSR mentioned. Once the problem had been sorted, the linespeed was lifted back to 125 EPS as designed.

Aha, thanks. I wondered why it was there for so long!

 

[ic31420]

Being hit by a train at 100mph is pretty much going to have the same effect has being hit by a train at 125mph or indeed 50mph.

Probably easier more effective and more cost effective to limit access to the platform to only when a stopping train is approaching.

That is if we are not solving a problem that doesn't exist.

One of my earliest childhood memories is sitting on the platform at Newport when a double or triple headed 37 hauled train came through. It rather startled me as a kiddie.

 

[SteelWeelApeal]

I believe they already do this at Reading. Isn't the alignment capable of 125, but the speed is 95 through the platforms?

 

[greyman42]

Are they flat out at Slough? I seem to recall a rather narrow platform once on a visit.

 

[Hadders]

Probably easier more effective and more cost effective to limit access to the platform to only when a stopping train is approaching.

Good luck trying to implement that at somewhere like Stevenage. It's simply not possible.

I believe they already do this at Reading. Isn't the alignment capable of 125, but the speed is 95 through the platforms?

Pretty much everything calls at Reading so it's probably not the biggest issue.

Are they flat out at Slough? I seem to recall a rather narrow platform once on a visit.

They were certainly going through at a fair wack when I was there a few weeks ago, not sure if it's 125mph there but it can't be far off if it isn't.

 

[43096]

They were certainly going through at a fair wack when I was there a few weeks ago, not sure if it's 125mph there but it can't be far off if it isn't.

Line speed through Slough on both the up and down main is 125mph. Reading platform 9 (down main) is 80mph and platform 10 (up main) is 85, with both having a HST 95 limit as well.

 

[Ianno87]

Line speed through Slough on both the up and down main is 125mph. Reading platform 9 (down main) is 80mph and platform 10 (up main) is 85, with both having a HST 95 limit as well.

At Reading, it may have changed, but the limitation on speed is due to the signalling which - in theory - ETCS will resolve. The alignment is fit for 125mph.

 

[Bevan Price]

They can always stand on platform 3 or 5. I've never had a problem with a pendo - if anything the freight on the Slows is more unnerving.

Yes, there seems to be much more air turbulence when liner trains pass through stations than that caused by any Pendolino (or Voyager).

 

[miklcct]

It seems that trains in the UK do not need to slow down when passing a station non-stop. In Hong Kong, I have heard that non-stop trains have to reduce the speed to at most 70 km/h when passing a station without platform gate non-stop as a safety measure to prevent people waiting on the platform being sucked onto the train passing at high speed due to difference in pressure.

Is it true that a train passing through at high speed may cause danger for people waiting at the platform if there is no platform gate, especially when the platform is crowded?

 

[swt_passenger]

No, there is no requirement to do this on Network Rail, trains conform to the stated line speed, up to and including 125 mph with appropriate warning notices, yellow lines etc. Above 125 mph then access to platforms must be prevented.

 

[Jimini]

The down main at Slough is probably one of the best examples of proximity of platform to gates / queuing passengers etc.

 

[Taunton]

The down main at Slough is probably one of the best examples of proximity of platform to gates / queuing passengers etc.

Or one of the worst examples ... I've used it regularly in the morning peak when a train on the relief lines and the Windsor shuttle arrive together - and the worst was one time when a revenue block was being done there as well. It's actually got worse - an oncoming Down HST at 125mph at full chat gave a useful few seconds notice of its passing. Not now it's all electric. A few drivers sound horn there if seeing the crowd, but others don't.

 

[yorkie]

Is it true that a train passing through at high speed may cause danger for people waiting at the platform if there is no platform gate, especially when the platform is crowded?

If people are not behind the yellow line, this could indeed be dangerous.

 

[Hadders]

The platforms at Stevenage are relatively narrow and it's not unusual for a GTR class 700 to tip out a load of passegers as a LNER speeds past on the other side of the platform at 125mph. It's worked ok for years and there really isn't a reason to change it.

 

[AM9]

Or one of the worst examples ... I've used it regularly in the morning peak when a train on the relief lines and the Windsor shuttle arrive together - and the worst was one time when a revenue block was being done there as well. It's actually got worse - an oncoming Down HST at 125mph at full chat gave a useful few seconds notice of its passing. Not now it's all electric. A few drivers sound horn there if seeing the crowd, but others don't.

There was probably more of an aggregate health risk with the 'brow mist' that the HSTs often created through stations.
Thankfully, with the 8xx's now running instead, that problem has gone.

 

[coppercapped]

I believe they already do this at Reading. Isn't the alignment capable of 125, but the speed is 95 through the platforms?

According to a Network Rail person present at the exhibitions of the planned works before the rebuild began the limiting factor for the line speed is the curve on the Mains to the west of the bridge over the Kennet which makes 125mph impractical.

This is the curve which shifts the Mains, which were built south of what are now the Relief lines when the route was widened in the 19th century, across to the pre-rebuild Relief line alignment through the station. Platform 8 - the current Down Main Platform Loop - was Platform 5, the Up Main Platform Loop and Platform 9, the current Down Main was, pre-rebuild, Platform 8 - the Down Relief.

The current signalling arrangements may also have a rôle to play in the 95mph limit for the Mains - but that is supposition on my part.

 

[rower40]

No-one suggested platform-edge barriers/doors yet? (After all - when did you last look down a lift-shaft? And trains are just impressively-complicated sideways lifts.)

That would prevent accidental and deliberate interactions between passengers and non-stop trains. All we have to do now is solve the engineering issues of unpredictable train door spacing and positioning.

 

[Royston Vasey]

No-one suggested platform-edge barriers/doors yet? (After all - when did you last look down a lift-shaft? And trains are just impressively-complicated sideways lifts.)

That would prevent accidental and deliberate interactions between passengers and non-stop trains. All we have to do now is solve the engineering issues of unpredictable train door spacing and positioning.

I understand they are commonly used in parts of Asia, such as Hong Kong.