Should overcrowding be the norm? NO!!!

[fowler9]

Well, yes they do, but we've a hell of a long way to go, before we achieve a flat transport profile throughout the day (if we ever do). This is particularly pertinent for the South East in which, even if you vary office hours more, you'll still have an influx in the morning and an outflux in the evening.

Spread the jobs across the country, end of problem. Did YorkshireBear get the pint by the way? Gutted.

 

[Moonshot]

One solution to overcrowding on peak services would be to have mandatory seat reservations and no standing like they do on airlines. Not sure whether travelling public would take to having their freedoms curtailed.

That just aint gonna happen.....much as it would solve an overcrowded train!!

 

[yorksrob]

Which if it happens is spread evenly across the peak anyway....more flexitime and charging for a super peak ticket would help that ..

I'm certainly all for more flexitime. Regarding super-peak charging, I'd rather see a more competitively priced shoulder peak. Judging by the disparity in loadings between the last peak and first off-peak services observed on Virgin's services out of Euston, commuters are willing to be nudged with the correct incentives.

 

[Moonshot]

I'm certainly all for more flexitime. Regarding super-peak charging, I'd rather see a more competitively priced shoulder peak. Judging by the disparity in loadings between the last peak and first off-peak services observed on Virgin's services out of Euston, commuters are willing to be nudged with the correct incentives.

There are also plans for a part time season ticket ....a carnet type product

 

[JGR]

One solution to overcrowding on peak services would be to have mandatory seat reservations and no standing like they do on airlines. Not sure whether travelling public would take to having their freedoms curtailed.

That's not much good if you need to catch one of these services with less than 3 months notice.
It'd probably make the problem of speculative reservations worse as well.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Quite correct. The increases in Rail have very complex causes. But we cannot make fares more affordable as we cannot take the passengers we currently carry!

The thing is the response from my fellow commuters will always be 'that's not my problem!'. Year upon year fares increase above inflation and yet there is very little to show for it. In my 24 year's of commuting the trains have become safer but I still don't get a seat!

 

[Beveridges]

As someone who lives in the Pacer capital of the World I'd have higher fares any day for better quality rolling stock.

If I could guarantee a 156 turns up I would make the journey by train, unfortunately I can't and often have an overcrowded pacer instead. That is why I use the car far more often.

 

[ainsworth74]

Year upon year fares increase above inflation and yet there is very little to show for it.

Well the second point seems a little innaccurate (new fleets of trains and lots of completed, ongoing and planned infrastructure around the South East mostly for the benefit of commuters).

As for the first Barry Doe did an interesting piece recently looking at season tickets around various TOCs and worked out that for the vast majority (and that includes the SE commuter TOCs) the fares now compared with 1996 had either increased in line with inflation or were actually lower. Where they were higher it was not much above inflation over the period.

You'll have to forgive me but I don't think commuters get a particularly bad deal in the scheme of things.

 

[pt_mad]

FGW removed nearly all of the tables from its MK3 coaches when it introduced its airline type seating plus it converted many of its restaurant cars as well. They cannot build new coaches so further capacity options are limited.

I know FGW did but many operators are using 2+2 seating on commuter lines. And some long distance routes are also using 2+2 with tables.

 

[tbtc]

You'll have to forgive me but I don't think commuters get a particularly bad deal in the scheme of things.

I agree, given that they are getting discounted tickets (which are closely regulated in price), yet much of the stock needed to meet the commuter demand into places like central London goes unused during the daytime (so those seats aren't being paid for by other passengers too)

 

[EM2]

The thing is the response from my fellow commuters will always be 'that's not my problem!'. Year upon year fares increase above inflation and yet there is very little to show for it. In my 24 year's of commuting the trains have become safer but I still don't get a seat!

The problem (related to your earlier point about road congestion) is that, by its nature, the railway cannot quickly react to increased patronage.
If, for some mad reason, the hordes that crawl along the A3 every morning suddenly all said 'Sod this for a game of soldiers, I'm getting the train tomorrow', there is no way that SWT could accommodate them.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I agree, given that they are getting discounted tickets (which are closely regulated in price), yet much of the stock needed to meet the commuter demand into places like central London goes unused during the daytime (so those seats aren't being paid for by other passengers too)

That's no concern of mine, or indeed anyone else who commutes into Waterloo! The cost of my season ticket rose 4.5% in 2013 where as inflation is currently running at around 2.5%. And yet the trains are still dirty and I don't stand a chance of getting a seat in the morning. The DfT is effectively taking the p*ss!

 

[fowler9]

The trains are dirty! Have a word with your fellow passengers then. I've never noticed the trains being any more dirty than any other public space. My mates car is probably dirtier and that is his fault. If it really bothers you then you can drive, get the bus or walk. The bus may be of a similar price, the car will probably cost more, yadda yadda.

 

[RichmondCommu]

The trains are dirty! Have a word with your fellow passengers then. I've never noticed the trains being any more dirty than any other public space. My mates car is probably dirtier and that is his fault. If it really bothers you then you can drive, get the bus or walk. The bus may be of a similar price, the car will probably cost more, yadda yadda.

No the trains are dirty because the TOC isn't interested in cleaning them when according to others on here they've got all day to do so! Living in SW London the car, bus or walking is not an option when working in Bankside.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The problem (related to your earlier point about road congestion) is that, by its nature, the railway cannot quickly react to increased patronage.
If, for some mad reason, the hordes that crawl along the A3 every morning suddenly all said 'Sod this for a game of soldiers, I'm getting the train tomorrow', there is no way that SWT could accommodate them.

But in reality is that really going to happen?

 

[EM2]

But in reality is that really going to happen?

Not to that extent, but substantial numbers have apparently abandoned cars, and expect the railway to be able to immediately be able to cope.
If the car or bus is not suitable, why not use the Tube?

 

[fowler9]

No the trains are dirty because the TOC isn't interested in cleaning them when according to others on here they've got all day to do so! Living in SW London the car, bus or walking is not an option when working in Bankside.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


But in reality is that really going to happen?

I live in the north west of England so maybe have a different view to you.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I live in the north west of England so maybe have a different view to you.

Well exactly!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Not to that extent, but substantial numbers have apparently abandoned cars, and expect the railway to be able to immediately be able to cope.
If the car or bus is not suitable, why not use the Tube?

Because the Tube takes too long.

 

[455driver]

I wonder if you could take some pictures of the filthy train RC, I know quite a few people at SWT who would be interested in seeing them, if you could note the coach numbers (the coach numbers are above the interconnecting doors at each end so easy to find!

Tomorrow morning is fine, after all every train you catch is filthy so you wont need any more time will you!

 

[Tibbs]

I wonder if you could take some pictures of the filthy train RC, I know quite a few people at SWT who would be interested in seeing them, if you could note the coach numbers (the coach numbers are above the interconnecting doors at each end so easy to find!



Tomorrow morning is fine, after all every train you catch is filthy so you wont need any more time will you!

Or perhaps they could employ the same cleaners that LM do.

I'm happy with the cleanliness of the train I get.

I used to travel SWT and rarely saw a cleaner go up the train when it got into Waterloo. At Euston they do every one.

 

[EM2]

Because the Tube takes too long.

Richmond to Waterloo is twenty-two minutes at best, and a fifteen-minute walk to Bankside (from www.walkit.org).
Richmond to Blackfriars is forty-two minutes, and a twelve-minute walk.
So that's thirty-seven mins v. fifty-four mins, but with the advantage that you get on the Tube at the terminus so will almost certainly get a seat.

 

[455driver]

I used to travel SWT and rarely saw a cleaner go up the train when it got into Waterloo. At Euston they do every one.

Which coach do you normally travel in?
The cleaners normally board at the coach furthest from the buffers because that end of the train is quieter as all passengers have to be at the front of the train on arrival and there wouldnt be any point trying to get on the train against the flow.

Nearly every train I take up to Waterloo will have the litter pickers go through it, not bad in an 8 minute turn around.

I go to Waterloo (nearly) every working day and I would say at least 95% of the trains are cleared of papers/cups etc at Waterloo (and again at some other terminii).

 

[Tibbs]

Which coach do you normally travel in?
The cleaners normally board at the coach furthest from the buffers because that end of the train is quieter as all passengers have to be at the front of the train on arrival and there wouldnt be any point trying to get on the train against the flow.

Nearly every train I take up to Waterloo will have the litter pickers go through it, not bad in an 8 minute turn around.

I go to Waterloo (nearly) every working day and I would say at least 95% of the trains are cleared of papers/cups etc at Waterloo (and again at some other terminii).

What coach I travel in on my LM commute is hardly relevant to the state of cleanliness of SWT trains.

 

[bb21]

I think he is asking which coach you used to travel in on SWT.

AIUI the cleanliness varies during the middle of the day, depending on what type of passengers have been onboard and how much rubbish had been produced. I have very rarely seen trains coming out of the depot full of rubbish anywhere in this country. It happens, yes, for various reasons, but not a common sight at all at the beginning of the day.

How did we get sidetracked from the central point of discussion?

 

[455driver]

I think he is asking which coach you used to travel in on SWT.

I was, maybe I should have put "Which coach did you normally travel in, because the "do" in there obviously confused him! :roll:

How did we get sidetracked from the central point of discussion?

Because some people will use any thread to have a bitch about something whether it is relevant to the thread or not!

 

[Graeme.Davis]

I use the Ayr to Glasgow train a lot and most of the time you have to walk from one end of the train to the other just to get a seat.

 

[TheEdge]

And yet the trains are still dirty...

On Monday morning I took a depot fresh Mk3 set from Norwich to London. When we left Norwich it was clean, by the time the punters got off at Liverpool Street it was covered in spilt coffee, coffee cups, papers, discarded food, tickets and un-flushed toilets. I counted 6 Metro's on the floor in one vestibule.

Several cleaners went through it at Liverpool Street removing much of the debris. Guess what it looked like when it got back to Norwich?

How are the TOCs meant to stop that?

 

[island]

More high density seating could help in some circumstances. Reconfiguring a whole fleet from 2+2 with tables to 3+2 without tables could provide a lot more seats for a (fairly?) modest price tag.

Fine when we look back at the BR days of travelling n a mk2 / 3 with a whole table to yourself and loads of leg room, the luxury factor is not the same now. But if the alternative is standing for an hour then I'd rather more stock be kitted out with high density seating.

Changing from 2+2 to 3+2 means a few more people sit down, most are more uncomfortable because of the narrow seats, and fewer people get on the train overall because the standing room is cut.

 

[Tibbs]

I was, maybe I should have put "Which coach did you normally travel in, because the "do" in there obviously confused him! :roll:

Yes, it confused me because I don't expect an adult to have trouble writing the right tense.

This is pretty basic stuff. Is English you first language?

 

[EM2]

Yes, it confused me because I don't expect an adult to have trouble writing the right tense.

This is pretty basic stuff. Is English you first language?

*Cough*

 

[Tibbs]

*Cough*

Curses. Hoisted upon my autocorrected petard.

At least it didn't correct to you're.

The point still stands - the sentence makes no sense with you instead of your, however the previous example was valid with do instead of did.