Severn Valley Railway to trial commuter services

[peteb]

They would/could use it for a service in the morning before the SVR start running, then resume their normal working and signal the evening train themselves... It would avoid the "cost" of extending their signal box hours.

Yes I can see that could work.

 

[Forty29]

There are fares showing in BRFares from 1st September, but I hope the quoted fare of £9,016 for a Day Return from Bewdley to Birmingham Moor Street is incorrect!

Purchase flexible walk-up fares for any British train journey

Purchase flexible single/return tickets & Travelcards – in 3 clicks. Full details of all British rail fares shown, with built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

View attachment 209850

(Image shows a screenshot of BRFares quoting £9,016.00 for an Anytime Day Return from BEWDLEY S.V.R. to BIRMINGHAM STNS)

That won't attract many users! Now if it was £9 adults 4.50 child would be very popular!

 

[kje7812]

That won't attract many users! Now if it was £9 adults 4.50 child would be very popular!

Actual prices from the WMR website are:

Bewdley - Birmingham Snow Hill, Anytime Return

£16.00

Bewdley - Kidderminster, Single	£2.00
Bewdley - Kidderminster, Return	£3.60

https://www.westmidlandsrailway.co.uk/train-times/trains-from-bewdley-to-birmingham

 

[A S Leib]

Actual prices from the WMR website are:

Bewdley - Birmingham Snow Hill, Anytime Return

£16.00

Bewdley - Kidderminster, Single	£2.00
Bewdley - Kidderminster, Return	£3.60

https://www.westmidlandsrailway.co.uk/train-times/trains-from-bewdley-to-birmingham

That makes splitting at Kidderminster cheaper in at least some cases for railcard holders, at £8.25 for an anytime day return (assuming the £11.25 fare's an anytime period rather than day return, with an overnight stay to or from Bewdley not wanted).

 

[kje7812]

According to the Stourbridge Lines User Group, WMR have told them that tickets should be available next week.

 

[bluegoblin7]

You don't need to go to all that kind of complication. The signalling at Porthmadog Harbour works automatically when the frame is switched out. In unmanned mode, the signals clear automatically without the levers being pulled.

If all you are talking about is a single train coming off NR, shuttling down to Bewdley and back, and then back onto NR metals, it shouldn't be necessary to operate any points or signals on the SVR. Effectively, what you want is just a dead-end single-line without any signalling. So all you would need is a slot to the NR signalling to say that the boxes were switched out with the relevant points set and signals cleared. And something to ensure that you couldn't switch Bewdley or Kidderminster boxes back in while the shuttle move is taking place. I understand that the line between Kidderminster and Bewdley is already fully track-circited, so that is most of the battle. Set the points and signals, throw a switch on the block shelf and everything is locked for the move, and it all stays locked until you turn the switch back and the line is proved clear. How complicated is that?

But at the cost of signalling alterations, which I don't think are cheap nowadays, on both NR and the SVR!

Indeed, even adding basic 'switch out' functionality is complex and expensive, and comes with restrictions. For what it's worth I wasn't saying that a remotely-worked frame was necessary or appropriate for the SVR, simply stating that it is possible contrary to what a previous poster had stated.

Switch out/through working logic is known and doable, but without track circuiting or axle counters reduces capacity, and of course flexibility. I also can't see an automatic, permanently off slot getting any kind of approval or assurance because there are too many variables still at play - especially moving from the national network to private infrastructure.

Of course, if the money and will was there the obvious solution is to just power-work all the points, add axle counters throughout and run the whole lot off a solid state or software interlocking, just using the levers as input controls when necessary......... (tongue firmly in cheek)

 

[kje7812]

There are fares showing in BRFares from 1st September, but I hope the quoted fare of £9,016 for a Day Return from Bewdley to Birmingham Moor Street is incorrect!

Purchase flexible walk-up fares for any British train journey

Purchase flexible single/return tickets & Travelcards – in 3 clicks. Full details of all British rail fares shown, with built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

View attachment 209850

(Image shows a screenshot of BRFares quoting £9,016.00 for an Anytime Day Return from BEWDLEY S.V.R. to BIRMINGHAM STNS)

BRfares now showing sensible prices such as £16 for a Anytime Day Return Bewdley-Birmingham.

 

[Belperpete]

Indeed, even adding basic 'switch out' functionality is complex and expensive, and comes with restrictions.

Switch out/through working logic is known and doable, but without track circuiting or axle counters reduces capacity, and of course flexibility.

As previous, my understanding is that the line is already track-circited, as it is worked by direction lever.

A basic switch out functionality need not be complex, and shouldn't be expensive if the work is done by volunteers.

Before closing out, the Bewdley and Kidderminster signalmen set the route through from NR to Bewdley. The Kidderminster signalman then extracts the special Kidderminster NR to Bewdley train staff, which electrically locks that route in, e.g. by back locking the relevant signal levers. To allow the train to get back, signals reading in the opposite direction have an indicator that is lit allowing them to be passed at danger if in possession of the special staff. No mechanical locking alterations required, just some fairly basic electrical controls that it should be possible to rig up fairly quickly.

The Kidderminster signalman then puts the train staff for incoming trains off NR, in a locked box somewhere convenient. I am thinking of something like Ambergate, where trains going to Matlock collect the token from a locked box on the platform.

I am not saying this is the ideal way of doing it, just that you don't need something complex.

I also can't see an automatic, permanently off slot getting any kind of approval or assurance because there are too many variables still at play - especially moving from the national network to private infrastructure.

There are plenty of instances where trains run from NR onto private infrastructure. I don't see what the problem is. I presume that there would need to be someone on duty on the SVR in case of problems, but you don't need a slot to prove that. For example, when a loco hauled train goes to Blaenau Ffestiniog, the signalman at Llanrwst phones up to check that the Ffestiniog Railway has a flagman on duty at the foot crossing. No need for anything more complex than a simple phone call to check that the SVR has someone on duty, and is happy to accept the train.

 

[kje7812]

Some interesting ideas. As it is, all three signalboxes are fully manned for all of the September trial dates. Three boxes (Kidderminster, Bewdley South and Bewdley North) are required as services are arriving into platform 1 at Bewdley and then shunting across to platform 2 for the departure (Note this is when the service is DMU operated).

As previous, my understanding is that the line is already track-circited, as it is worked by direction lever.

As former (G)WR, Acceptance Lever is the correct term. Kidderminster to Bewdley South is worked as such. Bewdley South to North is double track absolute block on the Down and Up Mains (Platform 1 and 2 respectively). The Back Road (Platform 3) is worked by a system called direction lever but this is not the same as acceptance lever.

 

[williamn]

I wonder why the connections are so slack? 20 minutes on the return from Birmingham - if you had a car you could drive home and have a gin and tonic on the go by the time the SVR train leaves Kidderminster...

 

[kje7812]

I wonder why the connections are so slack? 20 minutes on the return from Birmingham - if you had a car you could drive home and have a gin and tonic on the go by the time the SVR train leaves Kidderminster...

On (most) Wednesdays and Thursdays in September, the evening service is formed from the daytime passenger train (so should be steam!). This is timetabled to arrive into Kidderminster (SVR) at 17.30. The loco will then need to run round and maybe take water before it can go out again at 17.45, which needs fairly tight working.
The advertised WMR service from Brum is the 16:46 from Birmingham Snow Hill (2K86) which terminates at Kidderminster (mainline) at 17:25, however the next arrival from Brum is at 17:39 (2V88) thus giving 6 mins connecting time.

 

[williamn]

On (most) Wednesdays and Thursdays in September, the evening service is formed from the daytime passenger train (so should be steam!). This is timetabled to arrive into Kidderminster (SVR) at 17.30. The loco will then need to run round and maybe take water before it can go out again at 17.45, which needs fairly tight working.
The advertised WMR service from Brum is the 16:46 from Birmingham Snow Hill (2K86) which terminates at Kidderminster (mainline) at 17:25, however the next arrival from Brum is at 17:39 (2V88) thus giving 6 mins connecting time.

That makes sense from an operational point of view if not a passenger one - I wonder why they don't suggest the later train? 6 minutes is plenty.

Even in the mornings it's 16 minutes which seems overly generous, when the walk from station to station is about 1 minute.

 

[Belperpete]

That makes sense from an operational point of view if not a passenger one - I wonder why they don't suggest the later train? 6 minutes is plenty.

Even in the mornings it's 16 minutes which seems overly generous, when the walk from station to station is about 1 minute.

Probably for the same kinds of reasons that minimum connection times in general seem generous to able-bodied people.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Aug 2026 ==

Some interesting ideas. As it is, all three signalboxes are fully manned for all of the September trial dates. Three boxes (Kidderminster, Bewdley South and Bewdley North) are required as services are arriving into platform 1 at Bewdley and then shunting across to platform 2 for the departure (Note this is when the service is DMU operated).

Why the need for the shunt at Bewdley if the service is DMU operated? Can't a train turn-back at Bewdley from the same platform?

If platform 3 is worked by direction lever, it is surely signalled for moves in both directions?

 

[minimann]

Reading about the activity required at Bewdley how would this work from an accessibility point of view. Having been there with a pushchair p2/p3 aren't the easiest to access. Personally, if they had the opportunity to run the DMU in and out of P1 that might be the neatest approach.

 

[williamn]

Probably for the same kinds of reasons that minimum connection times in general seem generous to able-bodied people.

I'm just making the observation that presumably this is intended to appeal to people who currently dive to Kidderminster to take the train. The drive takes about 15 minutes, maybe less. If the connection time alone is the same or longer than the entire drive I can't see how it'll be appealing, though at least the price is set below the car park fee at Kidderminster.

 

[kje7812]

Why the need for the shunt at Bewdley if the service is DMU operated? Can't a train turn-back at Bewdley from the same platform?

Platform 1 is not signalled for passengers towards Kidderminster (Up services). I think (and will check next time I'm there) that one set of points doesn't have a facing point lock. Platform 2 is not signalled for Down services from KR.

If platform 3 is worked by direction lever, it is surely signalled for moves in both directions?

It is, but as already mentioned, there is access issues for pushchairs and wheelchairs (not sure how many you'll get on a commuter service!). Also the set for steam service is booked to be in platform 3 at Bewdley during week. On Wednesdays and Thursday, the guard off the morning DMU works the first round trip of the steam service.
In the evening the loco, guard and stock finishes at Bewdley instead of running empty to Kidderminster.

 

[Merle Haggard]

That makes sense from an operational point of view if not a passenger one - I wonder why they don't suggest the later train? 6 minutes is plenty.

Even in the mornings it's 16 minutes which seems overly generous, when the walk from station to station is about 1 minute.

My bold
Really! I've alighted (from the front coach) an inwards SVR train at Kidderminster - they never stop near the buffers - down the platform (people standing around) , through the barrier, across the concourse, tried to get quickly past the people standing in the booking hall, ran across the forecourt, had to wait briefly for passing cars leaving the car park, across the second road and took the quick route onto the platform for Snow Hill trains. That takes more than one minute!
On one occasion, the conductor of the LM train obviously saw me running (someone I didn't know was also running alongside me) because he pressed his 'close' button just as my finger was moving towards the lit door opening button, so the light went out just as I touched it. And he definitely saw me - he shouted 'stand away!' Even without a vindictive CG 'doors close 30 seconds before departure'.
Similarly, arriving from the Snow Hill direction either involves using the station footbridge or the longer, but step free, slope up to the road. Even being speedy, through to the SVR platform alongside a train must be ate least 5 minutes. Depends on how many people loitering. And that's without a ticket check. And I'm fit & quick

 

[Belperpete]

Platform 1 is not signalled for passengers towards Kidderminster (Up services). I think (and will check next time I'm there) that one set of points doesn't have a facing point lock. Platform 2 is not signalled for Down services from KR.

It is, but as already mentioned, there is access for pushchairs and wheelchairs (not sure how many you'll get on a commuter service!).

So if there is no access at Bewdley for pushchairs and wheelchairs to platform 2 or 3, how will such passengers travel from Bewdley to Kidderminster? Will they join the train at platform 1, and then stay on the train as it is shunted to platform 2?

 

[kje7812]

So if there is no access at Bewdley for pushchairs and wheelchairs to platform 2 or 3, how will such passengers travel from Bewdley to Kidderminster? Will they join the train at platform 1, and then stay on the train as it is shunted to platform 2?

I missed out 'poor access' from my previous post. Access to P2/3 for wheelchairs is via a walkaway in the yard and the barrow crossing. Staff will have to escort them around.
And I doubt passengers will be allowed on during the shunt across from P1 to P2.

 

[Belperpete]

Some interesting ideas. As it is, all three signalboxes are fully manned for all of the September trial dates. Three boxes (Kidderminster, Bewdley South and Bewdley North) are required as services are arriving into platform 1 at Bewdley and then shunting across to platform 2 for the departure (Note this is when the service is DMU operated).

I had anticipated that the boxes would be manned for the trial. It would be prudent to see how the trial goes before putting time and money into any infrastructure changes. However, if the trial is a success, and it is decided to run the service regularly, then it will likely be difficult to man three signalboxes on such a regular basis. It would be a pity if the scheme was then scuppered by those with grandiose ideas of expensive and drawn-out relocks and the like that other posters seem to think necessary.

For a dmu to shuttle on the single line between Kidderminster and Bewdley should not need any signalmen at all, just a simple "one engine in steam" staff. Any signals that can't be left permanently off when the box is unmanned can simply be fitted with an indicator operated by the oes staff that allows them to be passed at danger (think of the U indicators that the Ffestiniog used to use on signals when the box was unmanned).

 

[peteb]

According to the Stourbridge Lines User Group, WMR have told them that tickets should be available next week.

They're not available yet, with less than a week to go. Type in Bewdley and nothing comes up in the from or to boxes.

I've heard that tickets are not available on the train. Unless WMR sort out the ticketing pdq there won't be any paying passengers on the service!!!

I've tried Northern App, WM Trains, nothing. National Rail shows Bewdley (SVR) but won't sell tickets for 1st September. So what's going on?

 

[Gaelan]

The issue appears to be that no timetables have been put into the system yet. Therefore any online retailer that requires a journey plan - which is most of them - won't sell the ticket.

brfares does appear willing to sell the tickets; any ticket office, or any ticket machine without a mandatory journey planner, should be able to sell them as well (though I'm not sure what the process is for new stations to be added to ticket machines).

I can only hope that this is a temporary state of affairs and timetables will be added before 1 September.

 

[peteb]

The issue appears to be that no timetables have been put into the system yet. Therefore any online retailer that requires a journey plan - which is most of them - won't sell the ticket.

brfares does appear willing to sell the tickets; any ticket office, or any ticket machine without a mandatory journey planner, should be able to sell them as well (though I'm not sure what the process is for new stations to be added to ticket machines).

I can only hope that this is a temporary state of affairs and timetables will be added before 1 September.

Agree, otherwise it might result in fewer people travelling and there's nowhere to buy a ticket at Bewdley except online.........

 

[Merle Haggard]

SVR offer reduced price tickets for travel on their normal services for those with Staff Travel acilities presumably because of a reciprocal agreement with RST in order to allow their own employees reduced price travel on National Rail.

Does this also mean that those with staff travel faculties will be able to buy tickets at quarter fare (through Rail Staff Travel or at booking offices) on the new services?

 

[kje7812]

SVR offer reduced price tickets for travel on their normal services for those with Staff Travel acilities presumably because of a reciprocal agreement with RST in order to allow their own employees reduced price travel on National Rail.

Only against the full line return. No discount for shorter journeys.

Does this also mean that those with staff travel faculties will be able to buy tickets at quarter fare (through Rail Staff Travel or at booking offices) on the new services?

BRfares suggests priv rate is available for the trial.

 

[MrJeeves]

The services are in the timetable, but the RDG system (DTD) which distributes the timetable to retailers is excluding the trains (like it excludes freight services, or engineering trains) because someone hasn't configured it properly.

Because of the poor design of the system, I would guess the trains would need to be removed from the timetable and readded after the DTD system has been amended.

 

[Adam Williams]

I think Assertis have been in contact with WMT & the relevant teams at RDG. It is known it is broken. It's unfortunate it wasn't sorted out much earlier on.

 

[trainJam]

brfares does appear willing to sell the tickets; any ticket office, or any ticket machine without a mandatory journey planner, should be able to sell them as well (though I'm not sure what the process is for new stations to be added to ticket machines).

When the new WM stations were opened this year, I remember that the Birmingham New Street machines took a while to update.

 

[kje7812]

The WMR page now saying you buy on the day from WMR at Bewdley:

Tickets are available to purchase from West Midlands Railway staff at Bewdley ahead of the morning departures on the day of travel.

Bewdley Express trial

A new weekday commuter service connecting Bewdley to Birmingham Snow Hill via Kidderminster is coming in September 2026. Find out more.

www.westmidlandsrailway.co.uk