Severn Valley Railway to trial commuter services

[AndrewE]

I wonder how they will manage the ticketing? Guard can issue them, but have they got ticket machines? Presumably it will be a flat fare so they could even use cloakroom tickets... (but what about children?)

 

[Djgr]

I very strange proposition for a place with a USP of visiting by driving your car around it.

Are you suggesting that most ideas are half-baked?!

 

[ox_chap]

Would look great if the connection was advertised on the destination screens at the stations from Birmingham and for the two appropriate trains.

 

[Russel]

Would look great if the connection was advertised on the destination screens at the stations from Birmingham and for the two appropriate trains.

Yeah agreed, the more this can be pushed the better chance of it succeeding.

 

[ox_chap]

Makes you wonder if every heritage line with a mainline connection should snaffle up a class 150. Disabled accessible, mainline certified etc. House building near stations, we could see a sort of “reopen your railway” scheme reappearing but through the back door…

 

[LittleRedTrain]

I seem to remember the Mid Hants experimenting with something similar, using a Parry People Mover from Four Marks to Alton. Not sure if any services ever ran.

Public service never actually happened. It was cancelled at the last minute supposedly due to issues with the unit.

 

[martin butler]

I am sceptical when heritage railways get involved with commuter services, they because of their nature, are not set up for it,

I'm assuming this idea isn't a through working, but involves a connecting SVR service at Kidderminster , operated by what ever happens to be in traffic that day, otherwise you're looking at main line drivers learning the SVR

 

[Harpo]

I'm assuming this idea isn't a through working, but involves a connecting SVR service at Kidderminster , operated by what ever happens to be in traffic that day,

That’s how it works as I understand it. I saw a TV interview where Gus Dunster described walking between the two Kidderminster stations to connect.

 

[Russel]

I am sceptical when heritage railways get involved with commuter services, they because of their nature, are not set up for it,

Yeah same, as much as I'd like it to work, long term it would mean a complete change in the SVR's business model such as having to employ people like signallers etc rather than relying on volunteers.

I hope they can make a success of it, but it's not going to be easy.

 

[martin butler]

If it's on a day when the railway is already operating, then depending on what time the first service runs, then hopefully rosters can be tweaked to cover, who knows, there might even be some custom, people wanting an earlier/ later service, but then the service would have to originate from Bridgenorth /return to Bridgenorth. ,

 

[Rail Ranger]

Bridgnorth.

 

[alistairlees]

Adding the timetable for this service to the published schedule data (including adding Bewdley, Kidderminster SVR and a fixed link between the two Kidderminster stations), and adding through fares to / from Bewdley, would go a long way to making this a success, at little extra cost.

It was the failure to make the LSL Euston to Crewe (?) additional in c. 2021 appear in industry data (reservations, schedules etc.) that led to almost no-one using it.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Adding the timetable for this service to the published schedule data (including adding Bewdley, Kidderminster SVR and a fixed link between the two Kidderminster stations), and adding through fares to / from Bewdley, would go a long way to making this a success, at little extra cost.

It was the failure to make the LSL Euston to Crewe (?) additional in c. 2021 appear in industry data (reservations, schedules etc.) that led to almost no-one using it.

Once through fares are offered would it not raise delay/repay and punctuality complications?
Presumably when selling through tickets at Bewdley arrangements would also have to be made to distribute income to the other operators involved.

 

[alistairlees]

Once through fares are offered would it not raise delay/repay and punctuality complications?
Presumably when selling through tickets at Bewdley arrangements would also have to be made to distribute income to the other operators involved.

These are not reasons not to do it. The SVR operator might not participate in DR, for example.

 

[kje7812]

This is a post from the Stourbridge Line User Group, who are usually fairly reliable:

On our original post about the trial of services to Bewdley, we promised to get answers to a couple of questions. We are pleased to say that WMRE has come back to us promptly following a meeting it held with SVR yesterday.

On the issue of through tickets, these will be available. As an example, a peak return ticket between Bewdley and Birmingham will cost £16, a £3.50 add-on compared with the price from Kidderminster. This is significantly discounted, so hopefully will be attractive, as it beats the return bus fare Bewdley-Kidderminster which is 2 x £2. Online booking should become available from mid-August and through tickets will also be available from ticket offices.

In response to our question about services running in both directions, SVR have agreed to run the shuttle as passenger both ways:

06.40 BY - KR (06.52)
07.10 KR - BY (07.22)
07.40 BY - KR (07.52)
08.10 KR - BY (08.22)

17.15 BY - KR (17.30)
17.45 KR - BY (17.57)
18.15 BY - KR (18.27)
18.50 KR - BY (19.02)

Still, probably wait and see for certain.

 

[PP57601]

Do commuters not work/travel on Mondays and Fridays then ????

 

[kje7812]

Do commuters not work/travel on Mondays and Fridays then ????

Generally quieter days compared to Tuesday to Thursday. Also this is a trial.

 

[PP57601]

Generally quieter days compared to Tuesday to Thursday. Also this is a trial.

I’d have thought the more appeal to commuters (by having a 5 day service) would encourage them to try it, rather than having to drive one day, then use the train the next day etc,……

 

[Tetragon213]

Do commuters not work/travel on Mondays and Fridays then ????

Not as many. In the post-Covid world, a lot of the companies in my office block for example have moved to a "hybrid" system requiring 3 days in office. A lot of the team does Tues-Thurs in office only, spending Monday and Friday as WfH days. I would eat my left shoe if my company was unique in doing this.

 

[DarloRich]

Not as many. In the post-Covid world, a lot of the companies in my office block for example have moved to a "hybrid" system requiring 3 days in office. A lot of the team does Tues-Thurs in office only, spending Monday and Friday as WfH days. I would eat my left shoe if my company was unique in doing this.

i think your shoe is safe - it is fairly common these days. Sometimes by unofficial custom and practice rather than rule!

I’d have thought the more appeal to commuters (by having a 5 day service) would encourage them to try it, rather than having to drive one day, then use the train the next day etc,……

travelling into London the loads are visibly less on a Monday and Friday. Especially so on a Friday. I doubt Brum is different

I am sceptical when heritage railways get involved with commuter services, they because of their nature, are not set up for it,

I'm assuming this idea isn't a through working, but involves a connecting SVR service at Kidderminster , operated by what ever happens to be in traffic that day, otherwise you're looking at main line drivers learning the SVR

It is good PR and funding if nothing else.

That’s how it works as I understand it. I saw a TV interview where Gus Dunster described walking between the two Kidderminster stations to connect.

yes - and less of walk than changing trains at somewhere like New Street!

 

[Harpo]

yes - and less of walk than changing trains at somewhere like New Street!

Or even within Kidderminster if you’ve ever needed to get from the bus station to the SVR!

 

[DarloRich]

Or even within Kidderminster if you’ve ever needed to get from the bus station to the SVR!

i didn't know there was a bus station!

 

[kje7812]

Or even within Kidderminster if you’ve ever needed to get from the bus station to the SVR!

The walk up Comberton Hill is definitely a challenge for some, particularly the elderly.

i didn't know there was a bus station!

Next to the big Tesco and the library and college in the town centre. Not a proper covered one, really just a collection of stops.


If the fares quoted by SLUG are correct, the add on for a anytime return is £3.50. The normal SVR KR-BY return is £8.50 for adults, £5.50 for members and children.

 

[The exile]

Yeah same, as much as I'd like it to work, long term it would mean a complete change in the SVR's business model such as having to employ people like signallers etc rather than relying on volunteers.

Couldn’t a “one train in operation” shuttle between Bewdley and Kidderminster operate entirely without signalling, though. I imagine points would have to be locked but that presumably wouldn’t be difficult.

 

[Kentish RYS]

Couldn’t a “one train in operation” shuttle between Bewdley and Kidderminster operate entirely without signalling, though. I imagine points would have to be locked but that presumably wouldn’t be difficult.

It is not insurmountable but is a lot more difficult than you'd expect, and you would need to do alterations to the signalling as it is not set up for it. You can't just say 'ignore the signals until 1000 when the heritage service starts' as then you suddenly ignore a red as you are used to it and discover that it was protecting another train/set of points/etc classic way of setting up someone for a mistake.* You can only ignore signalling in a possession and there are no passenger trains in a possession. To avoid habitually driving through red signals the Thameslink ETCS with conventional overlay does an unusual thing when authorising an ETCS train to an intermediate block marker; even though there is a train between the signal and the next (though beyond the intermediate block marker) it steps up the entrance signal to yellow when it knows there is an ETCS train in Level 2 to avoid drivers getting use to going past red aspects

Therefore you'd need to cover/bag/white cross the signals and brief it (OK if it is happening for a while, like for removing a Signalbox for a few months for interlocking repairs in low season, but not easy to swap each day) or change the interlocking to allow switching out of the boxes, the GWSR is set up for this but from talking to people who know (I volunteer at another railway and work in signalling) to run one train they needed something like 7 signallers as only a few of their boxes can switch out due to the layout and interlocking.

*I'm sure there are closer examples such as Approach controlled signals 'that always come off' being SPADed, and thinking on it the over-speeding events at junctions where drivers are so used to a particular Route being set that they expect it and miss the junction indicator and have an incident, see several RAIB reports but the one I think fits well is the Collision that occurred on 2nd July 1976 at Gilbert's Cutting, near Dalegarth on the Ravenglass and Eskdale Railway ( Railways Archive Link for those who want to see the full report ).

Report on the Collision that occurred on 2nd July 1976 at Gilbert's Cutting, near Dalegarth on the Ravenglass and Eskdale Railway.

On a bright and very hot day the railway was operating its normal hourly service and, in addition, a train was dispatched from Ravenglass at 11-55 carrying two parties of school children. It arrived at the far terminus at Dalegarth at 12.32 and was scheduled to depart from there on its Down journey to Ravenglass at 13.55. The special train, comprising eight coaches of mixed design and hauled by a diesel-hydraulic locomotive, departed on time and, on approaching Gilberts Cutting, approximately a mile from Dalegarth, at about 10 mile/h, it came into head-on collision with the 13.30 Up passenger train from Ravenglass also travelling at about 10 mile/h. This train also consisted of eight coaches of mixed design and was hauled by a 2-8-2 steam locomotive..

Basically, an older way of working the R&ER via telephone with a central controller (not exactly what they do now), the Driver 'always' got authorised through two sections on a certain train on a particular timetable (i.e. pass through a passing loop non-stop not passing another train). Except on this day there was a special train added and he was only authorised through one section and carried on ad head a head on collision with the special.

*edited to quote from source as I realised I had not as per forum rules*

 

[The exile]

It is not insurmountable but is a lot more difficult than you'd expect, and you would need to do alterations to the signalling as it is not set up for it. You can't just say 'ignore the signals until 1000 when the heritage service starts' as then you suddenly ignore a red as you are used to it and discover that it was protecting another train/set of points/etc classic way of setting up someone for a mistake.* You can only ignore signalling in a possession and there are no passenger trains in a possession. To avoid habitually driving through red signals the Thameslink ETCS with conventional overlay does an unusual thing when authorising an ETCS train to an intermediate block marker; even though there is a train between the signal and the next (though beyond the intermediate block marker) it steps up the entrance signal to yellow when it knows there is an ETCS train in Level 2 to avoid drivers getting use to going past red aspects

Therefore you'd need to cover/bag/white cross the signals and brief it (OK if it is happening for a while, like for removing a Signalbox for a few months for interlocking repairs in low season, but not easy to swap each day) or change the interlocking to allow switching out of the boxes, the GWSR is set up for this but from talking to people who know (I volunteer at another railway and work in signalling) to run one train they needed something like 7 signallers as only a few of their boxes can switch out due to the layout and interlocking.

*I'm sure there are closer examples such as Approach controlled signals 'that always come off' being SPADed, and thinking on it the over-speeding events at junctions where drivers are so used to a particular Route being set that they expect it and miss the junction indicator and have an incident, see several RAIB reports but the one I think fits well is the Collision that occurred on 2nd July 1976 at Gilbert's Cutting, near Dalegarth on the Ravenglass and Eskdale Railway ( Railways Archive Link ). Basically, an older way of working the R&ER via telephone with a central controller (not exactly what they do now), the Driver 'always' got authorised through two sections on a certain train on a particular timetable (i.e. pass through a passing loop non-stop not passing another train). Except on this day there was a special train added and he was only authorised through one section and carried on ad head a head on collision with the special.

I was thinking of days when no other trains would be operating all day- though presumably on a major railway like the SVR in September there won’t be many of those.

 

[Kentish RYS]

I was thinking of days when no other trains would be operating all day- though presumably on a major railway like the SVR in September there won’t be many of those.

Yes, but what do you do with the signals, you can't ignore them or just set them all to Green in both directions, the signalling doesn't work like that, that is the point I'm trying to make

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jul 2026 ==

I'm not saying it is insurmountable but it is a lot of effort

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jul 2026 ==

And to modify my previous posts I forgot where along Bewdley is, thought it was further along, so not necessarily loads of alterations. However, the single line is acceptance lever, not electric token. So either you still need 2 signallers or alter the Interlocking and method of single line working*. Could be more minor than I thought initially but still stuff to do.

*doesn't have to be tokens, could do something like take inspiration for the British Railways Southern Region Tokenless Block (i.e. Isle of Wight original post electrification signalling, not the ex LSWR lines that got the odd Western Region equivalent), where when Shanklin was switched out Sandown could operate its starting signal

 

[martin butler]

There really is only one answer, someone will have to open the box at Bewdley release the token for Kidderminster, set the signal see the train off, then lock the box back up, drive to Kidderminster, unlock then be ready to accept the train when it arrives, or have early signalmen, or women, booking on at both boxes, relieved by a late crew

 

[Merle Haggard]

There really is only one answer, someone will have to open the box at Bewdley release the token for Kidderminster, set the signal see the train off, then lock the box back up, drive to Kidderminster, unlock then be ready to accept the train when it arrives, or have early signalmen, or women, booking on at both boxes, relieved by a late crew

Someone was doing that on another heritage railway (I won't name it at the moment) at a time of signaller shortage and was seen by a member of the Railway Inspectorate (or whatever such people are called) and there was severe censure. I think that the person concerned had to resign, not sure.

Now I don't know exactly why it's considered wrong, but the furore it caused certainly confirmed it was.

 

[Mollman]

There really is only one answer, someone will have to open the box at Bewdley release the token for Kidderminster, set the signal see the train off, then lock the box back up, drive to Kidderminster, unlock then be ready to accept the train when it arrives, or have early signalmen, or women, booking on at both boxes, relieved by a late crew

11 minutes late, signaller stuck in a traffic jam outside Kidderminster