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Serco for Sleeper

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Bodiddly

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7 Feb 2013
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648
"Low grade bus operations"

You understand that FirstBus don't operate trains? That for the most part, all the First operations are extremely separate in terms of not only function but geography? That the majority of the staff running these franchises are the same no matter which logo is on the door? That the staff are actually trying to run a decent railway rather than quaffing champagne and truffles while reviewing their "massive shareholder dividends"?

Because otherwise, that sounds like a very cynical, crappy low grade observation.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I actually find my employer very good (First Scotrail) and have yet to meet a colleague yet who doesn't care about the service we provide. At least First has shown they are willing to invest in staff and have achieved investors in people gold standard. They must be doing something right.
Can I also say my colleagues at FGW do a brilliant job also. I was recently down in the South West and found their staff very professional and polite.
It's easy to be criticised by blind ingnorance.
 
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kylemore

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"Low grade bus operations"



Because otherwise, that sounds like a very cynical, crappy low grade observation.

Stagecoach and First were born of corruption - because corrupt is the only word that can be used for the Bus Privatisation process of the 1980/90s.

It's fairly obvious from my post that I'm talking about these outfits at a corporate level, the operating staff have little or no choice who they work for and of course the majority do as good a job as they can.

They might put a bit of gloss on the rail operations basically because they are FORCED to operate to different standards in the Rail sector as opposed to their bus operations where they have no standards, hence your pay and conditions are better - but again only because they are forced to, in their bus operations the staff are treated like the proverbial.

Do not be deceived they would love to reduce the standards in the Rail industry to that of the Bus industry in order to squeeze more profit out.

They are a curse on the Rail industry and the sooner they are history the better.
 
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Sadsmileyface

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184
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Glasgow, Scotchland
Stagecoach and First were born of corruption - because corrupt is the only word that can be used for the Bus Privatisation process of the 1980/90s.

It's fairly obvious from my post that I'm talking about these outfits at a corporate level, the operating staff have little or no choice who they work for and of course the majority do as good a job as they can.

They might put a bit of gloss on the rail operations basically because they are FORCED to operate to different standards in the Rail sector as opposed to their bus operations where they have no standards, hence your pay and conditions are better - but again only because they are forced to, in their bus operations the staff are treated like the proverbial.

Do not be deceived they would love to reduce the standards in the Rail industry to that of the Bus industry in order to squeeze more profit out.

They are a curse on the Rail industry and the sooner they are history the better.

Again, this seems like a bit of a viewpoint that is based on the evidence of its own existence alone. Every industrial nation on earth was built on inequality, corruption and slavery but it is untrue to assert that they still value those ways today. Similarity with companies.

Furthermore, it is naive to assume that TOCs are exclusive in a desire to operate at the lowest cost while seeking the highest return- this is not indicative of some sort of evil intent, but the cornerstone of the concept of capitalism and the reason why none of us are dead at twenty five from living in abject poverty. Believe it or not, but even when good old completely perfect, always modern, always clean, always on time, never crashing, never running on a staff of entirely alcoholics British Rail even worked to this basic principle.

Yes, a lot of investment in the rail operations come out of franchise requirements. This does not negate the fact that they DO them. Again, the fact that they signed up and agreed to them at the start goes to show that they are, at the corporate level, NOT being dragged kicking and screaming to the bank, that they are in fact completely willing to concede. The investment in people such as training and development is not mandated, and yet millions continue to be sunk into it without any coercion (again, on the RAIL side).

The tone of your post seems to suggest that your dissatisfaction comes from the way one of these companies runs the bus operation. Going back to my original point, you cannot use the barometer of one basically separate company to measure the merits of what is for all intents and purposes, an entirely separate company. It may be very well true that the bus staff are treated poorly, and services badly managed. But that is no sign of the weight or support that is thrown behind other areas or the business.
 

HSTEd

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Private sector investment in the railways is roughly a tenth that of the state.
 

Olaf

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Stagecoach and First were born of corruption - because corrupt is the only word that can be used for the Bus Privatisation process of the 1980/90s.

I hope they sue the pants off you.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Private sector investment in the railways is roughly a tenth that of the state.

How are calculating that?
 

HSTEd

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How are calculating that?

There was an official report by the Office of Rail Regulation a few years back that put the annual private sector investment in the railways at roughly £400m.

State subsidies at that time were well over £4bn. Before you even consider actual capital investment.
(And yes, subsidising something does count as 'investment' if football is anything to go by).
 

kylemore

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I hope they sue the pants off you.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Lets go for the Hat-trick! The privatisation of the Post Office was corrupt also, with crook George Osborne favouring his pals in the hedge fund "industry" with inside info and with Vince Cable loosing his "decent bloke" status and proving he is as much of a corrupt spiv as the rest of them.
 
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infobleep

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Lets go for the Hat-trick! The privatisation of the Post Office was corrupt also, with crook George Osborne favouring his pals in the hedge fund "industry" with inside info and with Vince Cable loosing his "decent bloke" status and proving he is as much of a corrupt spiv as the rest of them.

I thought it was Vince Cable that was the person involved with the privatisation of Royal Mail. Do you have any evidence that George Osborne was responsible?

All I've read is in relation to Vince Cable.

By the way I don't agree with it, especially the selling of the Post Office Address File. I wonder if this government or future governments will ever buy back PAF?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 

NotATrainspott

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I thought it was Vince Cable that was the person involved with the privatisation of Royal Mail. Do you have any evidence that George Osborne was responsible?

All I've read is in relation to Vince Cable.

By the way I don't agree with it, especially the selling of the Post Office Address File. I wonder if this government or future governments will ever buy back PAF?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

The best man at George Osborne's wedding works for one of the hedge funds that made millions on the privatisation of Royal Mail.
 

infobleep

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The thing is George Osborne is a politician so liable to know all sorts of people. Have the public accounts committee criticised him? I know they criticised Vince Cable. I speak as someone who has rarely voted Tory by the way, so I'm not trying to stick up for George Osborne because he's a Tory, just wondering the actual facts.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 

route:oxford

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The best man at George Osborne's wedding works for one of the hedge funds that made millions on the privatisation of Royal Mail.

I have it on good authority that George Osborne's Postman has shares in Royal Mail and is likely to make a better profit than the hedge funds did when he sells them.

(Not unlike many people who work in the rail industry have shares in the company they work for.)
 

kylemore

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I have it on good authority that George Osborne's Postman has shares in Royal Mail and is likely to make a better profit than the hedge funds did when he sells them.

(Not unlike many people who work in the rail industry have shares in the company they work for.)

Well it seems that the only people not popping the Champagne corks are the poor suffering taxpayers. Already the new owners are hinting at needing a subsidy to deliver to rural areas - any bets that the govt will cough up and that the subsidy will eventually dwarf any "losses" Royal Mail used to make?

Anyway we're seriously going off topic here and I think we'll get a row if we don't watch out!
 

LateThanNever

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18 Jul 2013
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1,029
I hope they sue the pants off you.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They'd have a job. After all the Office of Fair Trading - no less - declared that Stagecoach management were unfit to run a bus company. But they'd got even bigger by then and unfortunately nothing was done about it...
 

cjmillsnun

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Joined
13 Feb 2011
Messages
3,275
I thought it was Vince Cable that was the person involved with the privatisation of Royal Mail. Do you have any evidence that George Osborne was responsible?

All I've read is in relation to Vince Cable.

By the way I don't agree with it, especially the selling of the Post Office Address File. I wonder if this government or future governments will ever buy back PAF?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

All privatisations would be overseen by the treasury. Especially as they would get the capital receipts from the sale.
 

Olaf

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29 Mar 2014
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1,054
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UK
There was an official report by the Office of Rail Regulation a few years back that put the annual private sector investment in the railways at roughly £400m.

State subsidies at that time were well over £4bn. Before you even consider actual capital investment.
(And yes, subsidising something does count as 'investment' if football is anything to go by).

Those investments would be in the respective private an state owned parts, so you are not comparing like for like. The Public Sector investment would be principally in the large ticket capital investments which are not in the remit of the private sector operators.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Lets go for the Hat-trick! The privatisation of the Post Office was corrupt also, with crook George Osborne favouring his pals in the hedge fund "industry" with inside info and with Vince Cable loosing his "decent bloke" status and proving he is as much of a corrupt spiv as the rest of them.

... you will only get yourself and the admins into hot water.
 
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Carlisle

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4,505
Again, this seems like a bit of a viewpoint that is based on the evidence of its own existence alone. Every industrial nation on earth was built on inequality, corruption and slavery but it is untrue to assert that they still value those ways today. Similarity with companies.

Furthermore, it is naive to assume that TOCs are exclusive in a desire to operate at the lowest cost while seeking the highest return- this is not indicative of some sort of evil intent, but the cornerstone of the concept of capitalism and the reason why none of us are dead at twenty five from living in abject poverty. Believe it or not, but even when good old completely perfect, always modern, always clean, always on time, never crashing, never running on a staff of entirely alcoholics British Rail even worked to this basic principle.

Yes, a lot of investment in the rail operations come out of franchise requirements. This does not negate the fact that they DO them. Again, the fact that they signed up and agreed to them at the start goes to show that they are, at the corporate level, NOT being dragged kicking and screaming to the bank, that they are in fact completely willing to concede. The investment in people such as training and development is not mandated, and yet millions continue to be sunk into it without any coercion (again, on the RAIL side).

The tone of your post seems to suggest that your dissatisfaction comes from the way one of these companies runs the bus operation. Going back to my original point, you cannot use the barometer of one basically separate company to measure the merits of what is for all intents and purposes, an entirely separate company. It may be very well true that the bus staff are treated poorly, and services badly managed. But that is no sign of the weight or support that is thrown behind other areas or the business.

Just as an example one part of a large company was villified for being responsible for the Bhopal disaster ,your post appears to suggest that we should have absolutely no issues whatsoever with another part of that company as it's a different section/division and maybe in a different country with staff on different terms and conditions etc that may seem to work fine in our locality so should merely be grateful for that :D
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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As someone mentioned earlier, a Scottish contract let to an English company who will in turn, boost the economy of Spain. Bizarre indeed!

Serco isn't "English", it's British with very significant operations in Scotland, just like Network Rail or RBS.
And in the EU single market, it is irrelevant where a company is based.
The Scottish Government can't fix it solely to suit outfits north of the border, even if it goes independent.
 

higthomas

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Serco isn't "English", it's British with very significant operations in Scotland, just like Network Rail or RBS.
And in the EU single market, it is irrelevant where a company is based.
The Scottish Government can't fix it solely to suit outfits north of the border, even if it goes independent.

I'm sure they can if they really want to, many EU countries break EU rules and nothing happens. I'm not sure if this is entirely true, but when the government has handed a contract to an overseas company e.g. Thameslink to Siemens, I have frequently heard cries of "But France award everything to Alstom."
 

AndyNLondon

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20 Jan 2014
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191
Serco isn't "English", it's British with very significant operations in Scotland, just like Network Rail or RBS.

Surely it's as valid to say that Serco is English is it is to say that First or Stagecoach are Scottish, or Abellio is Dutch, or Bombardier is Canadian. Each of those has significant operations outside its 'home', but that's where their headquarters are.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Surely it's as valid to say that Serco is English is it is to say that First or Stagecoach are Scottish, or Abellio is Dutch, or Bombardier is Canadian. Each of those has significant operations outside its 'home', but that's where their headquarters are.

It's a UK plc, as are FirstGroup and Stagecoach (ie subject to the same tax and regulatory regimes).
You can describe the companies in several ways, but I would guess that all of them have a majority of staff outside Scotland.
I just don't go along with the "us and them" rhetoric we get these days.
We have enough of that across the Welsh border and it's unhealthy.
 

AndyNLondon

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I don't disagree, was just observing that it seems odd for companies based in Scotland to be Scottish but companies based in England to be British. (I thought there were separate company registration systems for England & Wales, for Scotland, and for Northern Ireland, which would imply separate regulatory regimes, but that's well beyond anything I can claim to know much about.)
 

route:oxford

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I'm sure they can if they really want to, many EU countries break EU rules and nothing happens. I'm not sure if this is entirely true, but when the government has handed a contract to an overseas company e.g. Thameslink to Siemens, I have frequently heard cries of "But France award everything to Alstom."

You are making the assumption that Scotland will remain in the EU.
 
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