See it. Say it. Sorted.

[Judith hambly]

see it sort etc is the most pointless announcement ever along with stand behind yellow line. most regular travellers get peeded of by these announcements and either switch off or just put ear phones in to ignore the constant droning of noise . they know the number but will hardly ever use it cause they know the btp are useless most of the time and know u wont get a response and if you do it days later long after the crime has been commited and no chance of it being solved. just occasionally the btp will put out a headline saying someone used the number and we solved a crime but in reality its one in a million. people also wont tell the tocs and government to do away with the announcements cause again they know they will carry on regardless and dont care what the passengers think

 

[bramling]

It's been free for a couple of years.

My experience is that it's too slow though - I've reported beggars etc. a couple of times, and generally only get a response after I'm already off the train.

Exactly. What prospect is there of any kind of response if I text at 2200 in the evening “Hi I’m at Knebworth in the front carriage of the King’s Cross train, and there’s a man smoking cannabis”? The answer is basically zero.

 

[D1537]

Exactly. What prospect is there of any kind of response if I text at 2200 in the evening “Hi I’m at Knebworth in the front carriage of the King’s Cross train, and there’s a man smoking cannabis”? The answer is basically zero.

Well, I'd be unsurprised if there was no reply to that because quite frankly, who cares? I'm sure it would be different if it was "there's a man waving a knife about" or even just "there's a man behaving in a threatening way".

 

[Pyewipecarshed]

The passenger assist app allows staff to allocate a job to themselves, so if it's on there and someone has confirmed they're doing that assist then I am sure the train manager can also check and be confident in saying so?

It seems like a positive step to give someone reassurance. A lot of passengers can be nervous/anxious and this is the sort of thing that technology can be used for.

Yes, the train manager can check. The job comes up "assigned" and you can see who is assigned to it.

Exactly. What prospect is there of any kind of response if I text at 2200 in the evening “Hi I’m at Knebworth in the front carriage of the King’s Cross train, and there’s a man smoking cannabis”? The answer is basically zero.

Even where there is no response the incident is logged, so if a pattern of antisocial behaviour emerges on a particular station or service the Police can arrange patrols there.... assuming they have the resources, of course.

 

[talldave]

I only recently learnt that it is easy to remember as a variation of the normal police '101' number with 6s either side - 61016. Would maybe help if announcements were in the rythym 6 101 6.

Whilst I find the nanny state repetitiveness tedious, I entirely agree. SWR mandatory guard announcements are more often 61 016 which misses the point entirely.

 

[jon0844]

see it sort etc is the most pointless announcement ever along with stand behind yellow line. most regular travellers get peeded of by these announcements and either switch off or just put ear phones in to ignore the constant droning of noise . they know the number but will hardly ever use it cause they know the btp are useless most of the time and know u wont get a response and if you do it days later long after the crime has been commited and no chance of it being solved. just occasionally the btp will put out a headline saying someone used the number and we solved a crime but in reality its one in a million. people also wont tell the tocs and government to do away with the announcements cause again they know they will carry on regardless and dont care what the passengers think

While I am a regular rail user, I don't let things get to me like this because the railway needs to be used by everyone - people who aren't regular passengers, those who suffer anxiety issues, those with disabilities and mental health etc.

It's PUBLIC transport and a lot of messages are for their benefit, not yours or mine.

I have used 61016 and had police meet the train, but I am only reporting offences that would warrant police attendance in my view. But if you report beggars and other things, you wouldn't expect a rapid response but it absolutely will help give intelligence. I've been asked to take a photo if safe to do so, or just give a description. In many cases, they'll perhaps know who the person is and can deal with it later.

BTP has many issues, including massive underfunding and resourcing, but if you don't report things then I'd say you're a (small) part of the problem.

 

[Krokodil]

Exactly. What prospect is there of any kind of response if I text at 2200 in the evening “Hi I’m at Knebworth in the front carriage of the King’s Cross train, and there’s a man smoking cannabis”? The answer is basically zero.

Well, I'd be unsurprised if there was no reply to that because quite frankly, who cares? I'm sure it would be different if it was "there's a man waving a knife about" or even just "there's a man behaving in a threatening way".

I've reported a couple of men (who were making noise in the quiet coach, that may have been part of my motivation) who were rolling joints on a train I was passing on. BTP met the train, escorted them off, searched them and confiscated the stuff. Helps a lot if your text is clear, concise, and provides enough details to avoid the need for follow-up questions: crime, train headcode, arrival time at station(s) BTP are likely to be able to meet the train, where they are in the train, descriptions of the individual.

But if you report beggars and other things, you wouldn't expect a rapid response

To a large extent, response times will depend upon where they have officers on hand. I reported a beggar at Birmingham New Street and officers were there within a few minutes. Major terminals are likely to get good responses, it's also useful to know (as staff) where officers are stationed because one upstairs doing paperwork can be sent down to meet a train. For more urgent stuff (which could include missing person reports) where they don't have officers available to respond, they may ask the local force for help.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's because it should say "this station". Nobody cares about the next station. It plays out as you're rolling along the platform.

It's supposed to play out, and I have noticed it doing so, at the end of the "the next station is" announcement well in advance of this.

 

[GoneSouth]

I haven't heard the refreshed version yet, but I'm led to believe it has been re-recorded as 6-101-6 as you suggest.

But what we don't know is how many people who use it do so because they already have the number in their head, and how many have just heard it announced and decide to use it as a result.
If someone could work that out perhaps a balance could be struck?!

I wouldn’t have known about the number at all if it wasn’t announced loudly, frequently and everywhere on the network, and neither would most other people who have used it. Northern piddling around with their on train announcements every other day is much much more annoying

 

[Allwinter_Kit]

The passenger assist app allows staff to allocate a job to themselves, so if it's on there and someone has confirmed they're doing that assist then I am sure the train manager can also check and be confident in saying so?

It seems like a positive step to give someone reassurance. A lot of passengers can be nervous/anxious and this is the sort of thing that technology can be used for.

Then tell the person who requested it in the app? No need to have two automated and one manual announcement repeat it to a large number of people to whom it is irrelevant just to bulk out the airwaves a little longer?

I completely agree that it must be reassuring - if it is linked to the app, although I hear it so often (I couldn't confirm every station because I - unsurprisingly - try to tune out the audio assault) that I doubt it. However it also seems something that could more easily be more targeted to the people it will benefit rather than the entire train? Not to mention that if the person concerned received a direct notification - that's more useful for them then it just being folded into the general ongoing milieu of noise where they are more likely to miss it?

Anyway, my general point is that we often have exactly the same announcement 3 times, back-to-back, which was far more irritating than 61016, which in itself could be relegated to a poster-led campaign supported by occasional announcements now that it is in the consciousness of the travelling public.

On which note I must confess I don't quite understand why guards so often feel the need to repeat the auto-announcements anyway, what's the benefit? If they were adding new or different information then that would be one thing, or replacing the auto-announcements because they want to pretend to be a radio DJ, that's fine, but why have both?!

 

[KNN]

The strength of feeling on here is extraordinary.

It's a few extra safety announcements on trains we're talking about. If your route contains a lot of stops you'll hear it more.

Also, and this is quite important, it isn't about us who know the railway like the back of our hands and are confident using it.

It's about young women who travel twice a year who are being made uncomfortable by a bloke who sat right next to them in an empty coach, or people who are being intimidated by a group of lads directing homophobic or racist abuse at them on a service where the guard is no where to be seen.

 

[sh24]

The strength of feeling on here is extraordinary.

It's a few extra safety announcements on trains we're talking about. If your route contains a lot of stops you'll hear it more.

Also, and this is quite important, it isn't about us who know the railway like the back of our hands and are confident using it.

It's about young women who travel twice a year who are being made uncomfortable by a bloke who sat right next to them in an empty coach, or people who are being intimidated by a group of lads directing homophobic or racist abuse at them on a service where the guard is no where to be seen.

Spot on. That is why it is importantly. As I’ve noted above from personal experience the service works

 

[jthjth]

Spot on. That is why it is importantly. As I’ve noted above from personal experience the service works

There’s one failing in the messaging - confusion between the text and phone number. There was an article in The Times the other day berating the announcements. Several of the commentators stated they had tried to phone 61016 and then, obviously, got unobtainable.

 

[Pyewipecarshed]

On which note I must confess I don't quite understand why guards so often feel the need to repeat the auto-announcements anyway, what's the benefit? If they were adding new or different information then that would be one thing, or replacing the auto-announcements because they want to pretend to be a radio DJ, that's fine, but why have both?!

Because some TOC's instruct their guards to make announcements in addition to the auto-announcer.

 

[Tester]

Because some TOC's instruct their guards to make announcements in addition to the auto-announcer.

Understood, but why?

 

[Snow1964]

There’s one failing in the messaging - confusion between the text and phone number. There was an article in The Times the other day berating the announcements. Several of the commentators stated they had tried to phone 61016 and then, obviously, got unobtainable.

Clearly the Say it part of the message doesn't imply texting, it rather suggests using the phone in the traditional way of talking into it.

 

[Pyewipecarshed]

There’s one failing in the messaging - confusion between the text and phone number. There was an article in The Times the other day berating the announcements. Several of the commentators stated they had tried to phone 61016 and then, obviously, got unobtainable.

So despite all the comments in this thread to the effect of "it's unnecessary because everyone knows it", they clearly don't!
@KNN comes up with a good example; first -time or occasional travellers.
And some people think it's a phone number!

I reckon we should repeat it far more frequently

Understood, but why?

Because people are more likely to listen to a real human voice, plus many find it reassuring to know there is an actual human being on the train.
However the auto announcements are mandated by law nowadays, so they have to be present as well.

 

[sh24]

There’s one failing in the messaging - confusion between the text and phone number. There was an article in The Times the other day berating the announcements. Several of the commentators stated they had tried to phone 61016 and then, obviously, got unobtainable.

If people think 61016 is a valid number to call...it says more about them than the service!

 

[Vexed]

If people think 61016 is a valid number to call...it says more about them than the service!

When there are Samaritans signs up around the railway saying you can call a 6 digit number (116 123) it's not beyond the realms of possibility that a 5 digit number could be called for the BTP.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You'd think it would make sense to set up a phone line for 61016 even if only an automated voice stating to text if not urgent or call 999 if urgent.

 

[bramling]

If your route contains a lot of stops you'll hear it more.

And this is the point. It’s annoying and unnecessary, and some of us like to enjoy a peaceful journey so we can occupy our minds with more thoughtful things than an infantile meme.

Also, and this is quite important, it isn't about us who know the railway like the back of our hands and are confident using it.

It's about young women who travel twice a year who are being made uncomfortable by a bloke who sat right next to them in an empty coach, or people who are being intimidated by a group of lads directing homophobic or racist abuse at them on a service where the guard is no where to be seen.

Those people are quite capable of finding out whether there’s a way of reporting crime than having to have a patronising PA announcement repeated every few minutes. It’s so patronising and debasing. Full marks to those staff who suppress it.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

If people think 61016 is a valid number to call...it says more about them than the service!

Not everyone is an expert in the detail of the UK telephone numbering system and, as another poster has already noted, there are other "short" numbers which can accept calls - so it isn't an unreasonable expectation.

 

[styles]

There was an article in The Times the other day berating the announcements.

Was this in the print edition?
I've just read the online copy and the only 'berating' I see refers to the grammar, and even then it's a mere side remark: https://www.thetimes.com/uk/london/article/see-it-say-it-sorted-campaign-md2c8jhrm

Several of the commentators stated they had tried to phone 61016 and then, obviously, got unobtainable.

Probably would make sense to allow inbound calls to the 61016 number. That said, I expect the number of people trying to call instead of text to be very small in a relative sense.

 

[J663738]

The strength of feeling on here is extraordinary.

It's a few extra safety announcements on trains we're talking about. If your route contains a lot of stops you'll hear it more.

Don't forget in Wales we get everything said twice, so a few announcements turns into quiet a lot!

Plus, TfW also have a long automated announcement telling passengers you must have tickets ready for inspection and mobile phone apps open and ready for immediate inspection.....

 

[185]

feel the need to repeat the auto-announcements anyway, what's the benefit? If they were adding new or different information then that would be one thing, or replacing the auto-announcements because they want to pretend to be a radio DJ, that's fine, but why have both?

Because regular passengers try mentally switch off to the recorded garbage. See it say it see it say it... and buried towards the end of the 11 minute announcement is a useful announcement that the train is headed for the Cassandra Crossing and the bridge may collapse.

I agree - Drivers / Guards should not duplicate the recorded announcement but if the stock permits - knock it off by announcing over it. Manual announcements are especially important for late night trains with drunks, short platforms, disruption -all manner of reasons.

The problem seems to be correctly identified as too many nonsense announcements. Someone in an office, probably never been on a train seems to have lost touch with the real world. On a Merseyrail train yesterday, and some pre-recorded Essex bloke was talking about tickets and Parses. I'm quite sure most Merseysiders, Woolybacks and Wirralites would tell this pompous gent to stick his parses...

 

[styles]

Because regular passengers try mentally switch off to the recorded garbage. See it say it see it say it... and buried towards the end of the 11 minute announcement is a useful announcement that the train is headed for the Cassandra Crossing and the bridge may collapse.

Which train service had an 11 minute announcement? Did you make a complaint about it to the operator?

 

[jthjth]

Was this in the print edition?
I've just read the online copy and the only 'berating' I see refers to the grammar, and even then it's a mere side remark: https://www.thetimes.com/uk/london/article/see-it-say-it-sorted-campaign-md2c8jhrm

Probably would make sense to allow inbound calls to the 61016 number. That said, I expect the number of people trying to call instead of text to be very small in a relative sense.

I think it was Hilary Rose's comment article in Tuesday's edition.

 

[Krokodil]

Not everyone is an expert in the detail of the UK telephone numbering system and, as another poster has already noted, there are other "short" numbers which can accept calls - so it isn't an unreasonable expectation.

But all the announcements I've ever heard specifically say "...or text the British Transport Police on 61016"

 

[jthjth]

But all the announcements I've ever heard specifically say "...or text the British Transport Police on 61016"

Well it seems for some that part of the message didn’t come across.
Actually I don’t see why the see it say it sort it tag line is needed.
“If you see something that doesn’t look right text British Transport Police on 61016” conveys the necessary and important information. The SSS bit is redundant and, at least for me, irritating.

The backers of the scheme are claiming a large increase in texts to 61016, but they don’t know if that is down to the
“If you see something that doesn’t look right text British Transport Police on 61016” part or the SSS bit. Of course, if you are from the ad land firm that created SSS you are going to claim the latter.

I’ve also noticed a modification of SSS to See it, say it and we’ll sort it. I always thought the plain sorted was unclear.

 

[Jimini]

Was this in the print edition?
I've just read the online copy and the only 'berating' I see refers to the grammar, and even then it's a mere side remark: https://www.thetimes.com/uk/london/article/see-it-say-it-sorted-campaign-md2c8jhrm

Probably would make sense to allow inbound calls to the 61016 number. That said, I expect the number of people trying to call instead of text to be very small in a relative sense.

There's a piece on this topic in today's print edition (T2 / page 3).