Scottish Electrification updates & discussion

[clc]

380s are anything but rattly. There's 18 first class seats on the 170s, and most of the time there's no one on them. 380s are modern, comfortable, and go like the clappers. I don't see why everyone is making travelling on them such a massive hardship. I love them personally.
.

One formed the Glasgow- Neilston express service a few weeks ago which prompted doubt among regular passengers as to whether they were on the right train with it not being their usual 314. Cathcart circle passengers are in for a hell of an upgrade when the similar quality 385s arrive next year.

 

[92002]

Putting some 380s on E-G releases some 170s to replace some158s for refurbishment, so that us poor sods who have to endure 156s for over 3 hours can at least see some light at the end of the tunnel...

Not just as simple as that though.

The West Highland Line is not cleared for operation of 158s. With doors that come out to open at platforms, rather than slide.

So don't your breath for seeing any soon.

 

[Southsider]

They were converted to 320/4s (removing the TSO) and released the 380s in the winter timetable. Only seven, mind.

I thought i read on here there were 4 additional to release the 380s on the east coast.

 

[Altnabreac]

Not just as simple as that though.

The West Highland Line is not cleared for operation of 158s. With doors that come out to open at platforms, rather than slide.

So don't your breath for seeing any soon.

158s on WHL was a franchise commitment.

They were confident that the 158s could be cleared for WHL but it now appears to be off the cards because of concerns over the poor performance of the 158s over Fala summit on the Borders line and the similarities with the steep climbs on the WHL.

I suspect what will now happen is there will have to be a variation to see a more thorough refurb of 156s (rather than the "refresh" promised) to bring them up to the same standard as the refurbished 158s (which are really rather nice).

 

[gsnedders]

380s are anything but rattly. There's 18 first class seats on the 170s, and most of the time there's no one on them. 380s are modern, comfortable, and go like the clappers. I don't see why everyone is making travelling on them such a massive hardship. I love them personally.

They're great trains, but they're really built for high-capacity metro lines, IMO.

E–G I think works fine with the current mix of airline and table seating, and the tables are always full of people working on laptops which for many will be a benefit of a train over other means of transport. Take away the tables, you make it more awkward to use laptops, and you've probably lost some of the business usage.

 

[backontrack]

158s on WHL was a franchise commitment.

They were confident that the 158s could be cleared for WHL but it now appears to be off the cards because of concerns over the poor performance of the 158s over Fala summit on the Borders line and the similarities with the steep climbs on the WHL.

I suspect what will now happen is there will have to be a variation to see a more thorough refurb of 156s (rather than the "refresh" promised) to bring them up to the same standard as the refurbished 158s (which are really rather nice).

Are 170s cleared for the WHL?

 

[najaB]

Are 170s cleared for the WHL?

I don't believe so, no. But I don't have the SA at work to check.

 

[Strathclyder]

Are 170s cleared for the WHL?

The furthest points west for which 170s are cleared are Anniesland (normal service) & Westerton Junction (ECS moves only). Everything west of those two points (Anniesland/Westerton to Oban/Fort William/Mallaig via Dalmuir, Dumbarton & Craigendoran) remain uncleared for 170s.

More here: http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/page/Class+170+Route+Clearance

 

[Altnabreac]

Are 170s cleared for the WHL?

No, though I suspect they could be. They might not be that popular for WHL because of the 1/3 2/3 door positions that was one of the complaints about them operating HML services.

With wintry weather there was a preference on HML for end door stock and that might mean 170s wouldn't be viewed favourably locally compared to (refurbished) 156s.

 

[InOban]

Blindtraveler. Which Scotrail thread is this? I am aware of the issues with the radiator etc, but I thought that this was part of the refurbishment programme.

158s don't have to unreliable, although most fleets are. The exception is the 159 fleet based at Salisbury, which is the most reliable dmu fleet bar none. For several reasons, including I think that all the down to a price auxillaries originally fitted have been replaced by fit for purpose kit.

 

[Clansman]

Blindtraveler. Which Scotrail thread is this? I am aware of the issues with the radiator etc, but I thought that this was part of the refurbishment programme.

158s don't have to unreliable, although most fleets are. The exception is the 159 fleet based at Salisbury, which is the most reliable dmu fleet bar none. For several reasons, including I think that all the down to a price auxillaries originally fitted have been replaced by fit for purpose kit.

It was discussed here.

 

[Railsigns]

One formed the Glasgow- Neilston express service a few weeks ago which prompted doubt among regular passengers as to whether they were on the right train with it not being their usual 314. Cathcart circle passengers are in for a hell of an upgrade when the similar quality 385s arrive next year.

Class 380s have made daily appearances on the Cathcart Circle (in the morning peaks) ever since they entered service.

Since the last timetable change, rolling stock has comprised a mixture of Classes 314, 318, 320 and 380. It's not all 314s by any means.

 

[Altnabreac]

Class 380s have made daily appearances on the Cathcart Circle (in the morning peaks) ever since they entered service.

Since the last timetable change, rolling stock has comprised a mixture of Classes 314, 318, 320 and 380. It's not all 314s by any means.

Aye but its rare to get anything other than 314s out to Neilston. I think the 380s are only usually diagrammed on the circle itself.

 

[Blindtraveler]

A good refurb, i.e strip out and start over of the 156s will make them cracking units for the WHL. The 170s are IMO not only unsuitable due to door positions but also arnt particularly good on hills and would get out of puff pritty quickly.

All this is really a bit off topic though isnt it???

 

[fgwrich]

No, though I suspect they could be. They might not be that popular for WHL because of the 1/3 2/3 door positions that was one of the complaints about them operating HML services.

With wintry weather there was a preference on HML for end door stock and that might mean 170s wouldn't be viewed favourably locally compared to (refurbished) 156s.

A good refurb, i.e strip out and start over of the 156s will make them cracking units for the WHL. The 170s are IMO not only unsuitable due to door positions but also arnt particularly good on hills and would get out of puff pritty quickly.

All this is really a bit off topic though isnt it???

Indeed, given how notoriously sluggish the performance of most 170s out there are, I wouldn't want to particularly trust the use of 1 on the West Highland Lines.

Considering that the first major climb on the WHL lines is from the junction up to Helensburgh Upper - and makes anything climbing that work hard, a 158 would probably make it but slowly, a 170 would probably struggle in my opinion.

Either way though this is drifting further from the Scottish Electrification Thread. What's the current progress with the Shotts line and the proposed station replacement at Livingston South?

 

[Train man]

When the E&G gets wired would the class 170's move to the Shotts line if they're cleared passenger use until 2019 alongside the 158. Can someone confirm

 

[NotATrainspott]

Either way though this is drifting further from the Scottish Electrification Thread. What's the current progress with the Shotts line and the proposed station replacement at Livingston South?

What station replacement?

 

[Blindtraveler]

I was lead to understand it was just major mods at Livi South?

Work clearly ongoing as the evening bustitutions out of Edinburgh have continued and are working well when Iv observed them at Waverley recently

 

[Carntyne]

When the E&G gets wired would the class 170's move to the Shotts line if they're cleared passenger use until 2019 alongside the 158. Can someone confirm

Nah, They'll go to Fife/Borders.

 

[route101]

When the E&G gets wired would the class 170's move to the Shotts line if they're cleared passenger use until 2019 alongside the 158. Can someone confirm

Pretty sure a 170 has operated the Shotts before , one off i think though

 

[Train man]

Trains terminate at West Calder from Edinburgh Monday to Thursday after 20:30 and all day Sunday. Buses operate between West Calder and Glasgow

 

[Southsider]

The hold up is in awaiting authorisation of the TAWS order. That isn't Network Rail's fault.

My understanding is that they can run 7 car sets into Queen St even without most of the TAWS work being done? Its only 8 car running that would be restricted for now isn't it?

According to EGIP twitter today, platform 1 lengthening and staff accommodation building will start on 3rd April. (Sorry, don't know how to link to twitter)

 

[PaxVobiscum]

The information is in a series of tweets (ugh), but it's all in here:
http://www.egip.info/news/2017/03/glasgow-queen-street-gets-on-track-for-platform-extension-works

Glasgow Queen Street gets on track for platform extension works

Ahead of Glasgow Queen Street station’s redevelopment, preparatory work will begin next week for the extension of platform 1.

A £13m contract has been issued to Balfour Beatty who will deliver a package of enabling works including the construction of a new staff accommodation block, ahead of the platform being lengthened to accommodate four-carriage trains.

To prepare for the platform extension, the staff accommodation currently located on platform 1 and 2 needs to be demolished. The staff facilities within this block will be relocated to a new staff building being built on the North Hanover Street (Car park) side of the station ahead of the demolition.

Balfour Beatty will start work on this new staff building on Monday, April 3, with completion the facility due in spring 2018.

Engineers will also strip out redundant structures within the station during this time and build a new electrical sub-station to serve Glasgow Queen Street station.

The work is part of the Scottish Government-funded Edinburgh-Glasgow Improvement Programme and preparatory work ahead of the future redevelopment of the station.

EGIP is delivering a rolling programme of electrification across the central belt – reducing journey times and increasing capacity on routes by improving the infrastructure to enable faster, longer and greener electric trains to run.

When complete, EGIP will reduce journey times on the Glasgow-Edinburgh, via Falkirk High, route by around 10 minutes and increase the number of seats available to passengers.

Rodger Querns, Network Rail Infrastructure Projects programme director, said: “We will shortly start work at Glasgow Queen Street station to extend platform 1 and increase its capacity from three to four carriages.

“These works complement the wider activity happening at Queen Street as part of the Edinburgh-Glasgow Improvement Programme which will enhance capacity and improve reliability as well as reduce journey times on services between Scotland’s two largest cities.

“We are committed to carrying out these enhancements as quickly as possible and with the minimum of inconvenience for passengers. Station access, as well as pedestrian routes through the North Hanover Street car park, will remain unchanged.”

These works are separate to the ongoing TAWS process for the wider redevelopment of Glasgow Queen Street.

To date, EGIP has successfully completed the £80m electrification of the Cumbernauld line, the £25m redevelopment of Edinburgh’s Haymarket station and the completion of the new, £41m Edinburgh Gateway train-tram interchange.

For further information on EGIP, follow @NetworkRailEGIP #EGIP and for updates on Glasgow Queen Street work follow @NetworkRailGQS #GQS.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

According to EGIP twitter today, platform 1 lengthening and staff accommodation building will start on 3rd April. (Sorry, don't know how to link to twitter)

There's an arrow, albeit rather well hidden, on the top right of all tweets. Right clicking on that brings out a drop down menu which includes "copy link to tweet".

You can copy and paste that link and it will lead straight back to the individual tweet.

 

[Southsider]

There's an arrow, albeit rather well hidden, on the top right of all tweets. Right clicking on that brings out a drop down menu which includes "copy link to tweet".

You can copy and paste that link and it will lead straight back to the individual tweet.

Many thanks

 

[mcmad]

Interesting. Is that the first rail work Balfours have won North of the border since A2B/PCI finished on less than good terms?

 

[Clansman]

Interesting. Is that the first rail work Balfours have won North of the border since A2B/PCI finished on less than good terms?

They were awarded, and successfully fulfilled, the contract to open Edinburgh Gateway station last year.

I'd of thought you'd have been able to extend platform 1 right the way up to the concourse given they are demolishing the bothy and ticket office buildings?

 

[InOban]

Fgwrich: the steepest climb on the WHL is surely Queen Street tunnel. 1 in 50? So the hill- climbing performance of the 156/157/170 can be judged by their speed at the top.

Blindtraveler: refurbished 156s? No thanks. We've put up with them since they were new. They never were suitable for 3-6 hour journeys and whether we're thinking of those who use them all year, or summer visitors, we need something fit for purpose. The 158s were a good design compromised by using cheap auxillaries to bring the price down to one which the Treasury would accept. Replace with quality kit, and you will get a reliable train, as with the fleet at Salisbury.

 

[NotATrainspott]

They were awarded, and successfully fulfilled, the contract to open Edinburgh Gateway station last year.

I'd of thought you'd have been able to extend platform 1 right the way up to the concourse given they are demolishing the bothy and ticket office buildings?

Concourse Level Plan

Only a few extra metres would be possible, but not worthwhile as it wouldn't be enough for 5 carriages. The stairs down to the low level station are in the way of any further extensions.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Concourse Level Plan

I'm a bit worried about all these "Buffer exclusion zones". Does that mean that I will no longer be allowed in to take photographs at the ends of platforms?