ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[jingsmonty]

2050? Any idea when the second set will see service and if the third set has been seen from the Wabtec timewarp?

Rail Magazine Issue 871 reports that a third refurbished set is about to be released, with the next four sets not far behind.
They also report that Scotrail has told them that they expect all 26 refurbished set to be in traffic by the end of the year.

It's been said on here already (by myself, amongst others) that 'Refurb 3' is due to be released imminently (announced on Scotrail staff social media), and that sets 4 - 7 are not far behind. Sets 8 & 9 have entered Wabtec as well.

The slow speed of the refurbishment up to now has been extremely disapointing (that's putting it mildly...), but constant carping, like some of the tedious comments quoted above don't help - it's very easy to sit on the sidelines & make sarcastic comments, but it doesn't really achieve anything! If the refurbished sets start being released on a more regular basis, that will be the proof that things have improved. Remember, the staff training is still catching up as well, so even if we suddenly had 10 refurb sets, there wouldn't be enough crews to work them! That's a relatively short term issue, though.

Good news about the work going to Kilmarnock as well - we may see an increase in set turnover as a result. Is this in addition to Wabtec Doncaster, or are Kilmarnock taking on all the work?

 

[jingsmonty]

I can confirm this refurbed unit Will not be seen in Inverness until the works to the sidings are complete. It may pop up on a driver training run but won't be passengers on it to and from inverness until the works are done

Sounds 100% correct to me... there just isn't the space! I wonder if the 3rd 'refurb' set could be used as the Inverness training train & swapped with the 'classic' set being used just now? Just a thought... Drivers, Conductors & Hospitality staff will all need training on it..

 

[Goldromans]

Wabtec confirm that HST refurbishment for ScotRail will now also take place at Wabtec Kilmarnock.

https://twitter.com/wabtecuk/status/1091270151071240193?s=21

 

[jingsmonty]

Wabtec confirm that HST refurbishment for ScotRail will now also take place at Wabtec Kilmarnock.

https://twitter.com/wabtecuk/status/1091270151071240193?s=21

That's great to hear - both Wabtec sites doing the work should speed things up, then. Didn't Wabtec Kilmarnock do the last GWR HST Mk3 upgrades too? Hopefully (if the same staff are still there, that is) this will mean a core of staff who have a extensive knowledge of working with Mk3 HST trailers. Can't hurt....

 

[stantheman]

Can someone tell me how many green coaches and power cars there are in Scotland ?

 

[InOban]

As I read the letter, only 26 vehicles are planned for Kilmarnock, ie ca 6 sets. So the vast majority will come out of Doncaster. Eventually.

 

[43096]

Good news about the work going to Kilmarnock as well - we may see an increase in set turnover as a result. Is this in addition to Wabtec Doncaster, or are Kilmarnock taking on all the work?

26 vehicles at Kilmarnock, the other 95 at Doncaster.

 

[43096]

Can someone tell me how many green coaches and power cars there are in Scotland ?

No green power cars and just a handful of green trailers - around 6 or 7, I think.

 

[Goldromans]

As I read the letter, only 26 vehicles are planned for Kilmarnock, ie ca 6 sets. So the vast majority will come out of Doncaster. Eventually.

Also interesting to read that Wabtec still believe that they can deliver all the refurbished sets by the end of this year.

 

[jingsmonty]

Also interesting to read that Wabtec still believe that they can deliver all the refurbished sets by the end of this year.

Pretty unequivocal statement of intent - I hope they can too, it will make a huge difference!

 

[jingsmonty]

No green power cars and just a handful of green trailers - around 6 or 7, I think.

Some of the green trailers have green covered seats, some have 'purple laser', or whatever the previous GWR livery was called! There's at least 1 complete 'green' trailer set kicking about

 

[mde]

Some of the green trailers have green covered seats, some have 'purple laser', or whatever the previous GWR livery was called! There's at least 1 complete 'green' trailer set kicking about

Dynamic lines from Lambie Nairn

(link is a pdf showing some of the branding)

 

[chuff chuff]

I believe the 2nd refurbished set is used for training (static, or mobile, I'm not 100% sure) - I did hear that Perth has a specific path for a training train on the HML (which I haven't actually seen yet!) - how far North this goes, I'm not sure of either.

As far as I'm aware the 2nd set hasn't turned a wheel since arriving in Perth it just sits there guzzling fuel.

 

[43096]

Dynamic lines from Lambie Nairn

(link is a pdf showing some of the branding)

So, they brought in Dynamic lines to "dispel outdated negative perceptions". Ten years later it became GWR because "we’re proud to have the chance to look after your railway." So presumably the Dynamic lines rebranding was an abject failure in dispelling negative perceptions as by the time it became GWR, First was a toxic brand. Not that anything has changed - I think the phrase is "you can't polish a turd".

 

[samuelmorris]

I think I'd agree - First wanted corporate branding on everything but eventually realised the brand was too negative in public eye, either that or DfT enforced use of a new livery for the franchise moving forward when the 800s arrived, so they rebranded everything else to match.

 

[43096]

I think I'd agree - First wanted corporate branding on everything but eventually realised the brand was too negative in public eye, either that or DfT enforced use of a new livery for the franchise moving forward when the 800s arrived, so they rebranded everything else to match.

Think we’d best leave the WorstGroup discussion there, as the thought police will be on patrol!

 

[najaB]

As far as I'm aware the 2nd set hasn't turned a wheel since arriving in Perth it just sits there guzzling fuel.

Are you sure? I ask because a fair bit of the initial training done in Dundee involved shuttling back and forth in the sidings.

 

[chuff chuff]

Are you sure? I ask because a fair bit of the initial training done in Dundee involved shuttling back and forth in the sidings.

The 2nd refurb in Perth as far I'm aware has only moved to the fuel road to tank up that is all.The shunting back and forth you saw at Dundee is in the first week of training just to give trainee's a wee bit of hands on and what to look for before doing their running out.
Anyone going on the refurb will have already done their hst training and just getting converted to the refurb.

 

[Northhighland]

Wabtec confirm that HST refurbishment for ScotRail will now also take place at Wabtec Kilmarnock.

https://twitter.com/wabtecuk/status/1091270151071240193?s=21

Excellent news. If Wabtec can get their finger out this can still be a great success. The first set is as good as anything else on the rails in the UK. If the other 24 can happen fairly quickly then we will see massive improvements in service.

 

[fgwrich]

So, they brought in Dynamic lines to "dispel outdated negative perceptions". Ten years later it became GWR because "we’re proud to have the chance to look after your railway." So presumably the Dynamic lines rebranding was an abject failure in dispelling negative perceptions as by the time it became GWR, First was a toxic brand. Not that anything has changed - I think the phrase is "you can't polish a turd".

The irony is, they seem to have gone into complete reverse under the GWR brand but seem to be good at hiding themselves under it - as of course, they want to evoke the spirit of the Great Western Railway and 1920s rail travel!

How far are we from seeing a 3rd and 4th set at Doncaster? I believe Wabtec are keen to take their time with these sets including stripping the roofs right back to bare metal for repair then repaint - adding further time to the schedule.

 

[Northhighland]

I can confirm this refurbed unit Will not be seen in Inverness until the works to the sidings are complete. It may pop up on a driver training run but won't be passengers on it to and from inverness until the works are done

How long is that expected to take?

 

[najaB]

How far are we from seeing a 3rd and 4th set at Doncaster?

The 3rd set is ready to leave, and the 4th, 5th and 6th are supposedly not far behind.

 

[scotraildriver]

Are you sure? I ask because a fair bit of the initial training done in Dundee involved shuttling back and forth in the sidings.

Its mainly guards and catering staff training. There are Queen St staff on courses there every day for the next 4 weeks at least.

 

[Bassman]

I believe Wabtec are keen to take their time with these sets including stripping the roofs right back to bare metal for repair then repaint - adding further time to the schedule.

Highly necessary, I think, after viewing the roofs of the coaches of a classic set from the pedestrian footbridge at Perth.

 

[InOban]

The 3rd set is ready to leave, and the 4th, 5th and 6th are supposedly not far behind.

If it's ready to leave, why hasn't it left? Or at least why isn't there a delivery path loaded?

 

[47271]

Think we’d best leave the WorstGroup discussion there, as the thought police will be on patrol!

Yes, but just to record as the final word on this, you've got to admit that that document gave us all a good laugh.

Digression closed...

 

[47271]

If it's ready to leave, why hasn't it left? Or at least why isn't there a delivery path loaded?

Maybe it's broken down.

To be serious, if they really are going to start turning them out now, and I'll believe it when I see it, reliability will become the number one subject of interest again.

 

[DannyMich2018]

If it's ready to leave, why hasn't it left? Or at least why isn't there a delivery path loaded?

Possibly because of the bad weather been experienced in the UK at the minute so held off delivery until the weather improves?

 

[InOban]

Come on! The snow problem has been in the South. Up here its mainly just been cold, and, apart from a few frozen points, trains are running as well as usual, which may not be good enough but...

 

[najaB]

If it's ready to leave, why hasn't it left? Or at least why isn't there a delivery path loaded?

I don't know. All I know is that delivery has been "imminent" for a week or two